Does anyone know if AmiCygnix will ever get ported to MorphOS? MOS has a serious lack of office software and a port of AmiCygnix would be an ideal solution as it would allow the use of Gnumeric and Abiword. I use it on my dual-boot PegII under OS4 and it rocks.

@ferrels

The port of Cygnix on MorphOS was already started by Fab in 2007. Unfortunatly, this is too slow and not a long term solution, so he didn't release and finish the port.

@Daff

It was not a "Cygnix" port. "Cygnix" is just the name that was given to that recompilation effort on OS4. :)

So, just the same way, what I did was a recompilation of all those crappy X11 libs and upper layers (up to gnome and enligthenment) and of the X11 server itself (though xami performs better, thanks to a few accelerated calls, unlike the plain X11 server).

But the result is too ridiculous speed-wise and integration-wise. It was actually as slow as on OS4, and I'm surprised people can accept that. This whole X11 thing is just too poor to be considered seriously. Time is better invested in real ports.

@Fab

Nothing like appreciation and positivity for someone else's work to boost morale is there?


@Daff

If you take out the negativity, what Fab probably meant was "I compiled the X11 server, libs and upper layers but found it very slow. I did not want to spend more time and effort on it and am instead writing other software".


@Fab again,

using AmiCygnix is certainly slower than native apps would be, however, AmiCygnix allows OS4 users to use a modern word processor, spreadsheet and other useful stuff. While we wait for native stuff to arrive, we can at least do "proper" work.

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@Fab

You are absolutly right about speed. Rendering are _VERY_ slow. And i do not understand ppls who can use that. Indeed , the software itself are very good (professional, etc). But for me always it was like: if somethink slow and annoing for work, then it's not usable.

And becouse of it i am sometime try to annoy author of os4 port, but some days ago he answered me on amigans on the answer: "Have you any progress with "speedup/rendering" thinks on the amicygnix itself ? :) If yes, can you write what you already to do f compare with the latest AmiCygnix from the os4depot ?:)"

The answer is: No, I didn't make any improvements to the server yet. It is very difficult to implement.

So, for me it looks like strange. Becouse for what need to release more porst for it, if it in any case will be slow ? Imho better spend all the time of this difficult thinks. Of course it's not easy, and who i am to said what need to do to author, but just it looks unlogical : release slow ports.

In general i hope that someday it will be "improvement", so then it will be _very_ usable. At moment i am only wath it, detect that is works fine but slow, and that all.

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@Fab

I don't understand why some think that AmiCygnix is so slow. I have it installed on my PegII (1Ghz) running OS4.1 and it runs quite well. The only slowdowns that I've seen are when I drag an AmiCygnix application around on the screen. There's a slight delay in redrawing the application window but aside from that it's very usable. I think it's related to running the applications inside an X window/screen instead of a native Amiga screen. I've seen a couple mods that allow Gnumeric and other AmiCygnix applications to open and run on a native Amiga screen which should eliminate the slow dragging speed but I've not yet had the courage to modify my AmiCygnix configuration. And besides, as I said earlier, it runs quite well on my PegII so I'm part of the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" camp.

@yoodoo2

Yes, AmiCygnix allows me to use my PegII to do real work. Without it, my Peg would be just another toy laying around the house. And until someone in the Amiga community writes some native-Amiga office software, AmiCygnix is the only game in town.

Last edited by ferrels on 02-Jul-2009 at 01:24 PM.

@everyone calling it slow

Has everyone calling Cygnix slow tried the latest version? I admit the first version was very slow but the latest release is quite acceptable for me. I certainly wouldn't be playing any games under X11 but it's fine for productivity apps.

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@BobW

I agree. The latest version rocks and AmiCygnix is one of the most professional pieces of software I've ever used, regardless of platform. Installation was a breeze with a very well-designed installer. Every one of the applications was a joy to install and as I said in my earlier post, all the applications run very well except when you drag the application around on the screen. The application window has a slight lag in redrawing and that's it.

@Fab

Maybe it would be worth looking at again when the mac mini port is complete? The extra power of the mini might make it usable. The OS4 AmiCygnix is actually quite good on my overclocked PegII G4 with Radeon 9000 pro, noticably quicker than my standard G4 PegII. Too slow on my other machines though :(

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@ferrels

Quote:

I agree. The latest version rocks and AmiCygnix is one of the most professional pieces of software I've ever used, regardless of platform.

It really hurts to read that, because amicygnix is just an almost untouched recompilation of existing gtk/unix applications, with a few addition like clipboard integration and stuff. And if you ask me, these unix applications have really nothing professional at all. And if you find it professional, then you would find any linux distribution more professional.

But what's not professional at all is the use of an alien X11 server that goes against all amigaos paradygms.

And also, that there is an installer is the least that could be done, because these unix apps are very often an awful mess regarding their file organisation, and installing them correctly by hand (with all their deps) would be a nightmare without an installer.

Last edited by Fab on 02-Jul-2009 at 03:14 PM.

@Fab

Actually I saw it. In terms of functionality, I too, consider this like an ssh session with Xwindow forwarding. So merely usable.

But unlike you, I hate ports. I think of new software. Sometimes it is easier to write stuff from the scratch, then base on someone's messy code. I hate someone else's code, Python maybe ok.

@thread

Of course I'm happy that when I was back (January this year), I encountered AmiCygnix with working applications. But I wouldn't adore anything under Cygnix. Why no ASP? Why no Google docs, I mean at least making it work?? That's funny but it might eventually turn out that making a fully plausible browser would completely substitute all this AmiCygnix works, and not only...

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@Fab

I would always choose a native application over something running under X11 but thats not the point. Amicygnix allows me to run a handful of modern applications that just arn't available otherwise.

The "alien" X11 server doesn't matter to me. It actually makes more sense to use X11 on Amiga OS than it does on Windows. The X11 screen fits right in because of the Amiga's use of screens. It feels a lot more clunky on a windows machine unless you are running it in rootless mode.

Another reason X11 is important is because it allows the Amiga to be one step closer to being a professional OS. The last company I worked for had a number of business applications that were X windows based. I'm talking professional logistics software. Assuming Amicygnix allows remote hosts to use the local display I could actually use my A1 at work. If I still worked there I would go in and give it a try.

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Micro A1 866 Mhz and AmigaOS 4.1
PowerMac G4 1.4 Ghz and MorphOS 2.7

@ferrels

Kronos will probably provide a gtk->MUI wrapper. That's of course quite somethimg different than the Cygnix efford, but it will provide some gtk software that runs kind of native (wrapped) on MorphOS. I prefer that kind of approach.
Moreover, IIRC it is possible to use google docs with OWB, so you have a text and spreadsheed solution on MorphOS already. But I must confess, I haven't tested these google services myself yet - no account and no real need yet (enough other computers).

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@Zylesea

Google docs support for footnotes isn´t good yet.

@Fab

how bout optimising the X11 server? Too great work?
I think that the only problem on AmiCygnix was gfx slowdowns.. the operativitry in general wasnt bad...

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@ferrels

Quote:

I've seen a couple mods that allow Gnumeric and other AmiCygnix applications to open and run on a native Amiga screen

Start X11Setup program. Switch "videodriver" to "picasso96pip" to run AmiCygnix in a window on Workbench. Set screenmode resolution (in the same X11setup) to size what kind of size you want that window to be. Save or use your settings.

@Fab
There's saying in Finnish "happamia sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista". Ask your Finnish friends to tell you what it is in your native language or in English. (That saying means something like if there's something out of your reach you'll say that it's bad and you didn't want it anyway no matter how good it is.)

@thread
Everybody asking AmiCygnix author to do this and that. Have you ever developed any software yourself ? Some people are busy to do hobby work. (Some have to do a lot of overtime work in their day job and many have families to take care of and so on...) And because this community has too few developers every developer has "millions" of projects in their hands. Just remember Amiga software development was quite little between mid-'90's and mid-'00's, when Winblows and Linux communities were pushing full steam ahead.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 02-Jul-2009 at 09:12 PM.

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@Tomppeli

Really badly chosen saying, since i just said previously I had done that work and decided not to release it because of its mediocrity. Additionally, it's not out of my reach since i can also run it on OS4 if i want to hurt myself. :)

Choose a better one next time. :)

@Tomppeli

Quote:

There's saying in Finnish "happamia sanoi kettu pihlajanmarjoista". Ask your Finnish friends to tell you what it is in your native language or in English. (That saying means something like if there's something out of your reach you'll say that it's bad and you didn't want it anyway no matter how good it is.)

I am rather puzzled about that statement aswell, considering the undisputable fact is that there have been X11 servers for Amiga for a really long time. Long before OS4. Even before MorphOS. There's a review of GfxBase X11 X server on Aminet that was uploaded in 1992.

I guess it's safe to say, that as long as MorphOS has existed in public form, it has been possible to run (68k) X11 server on it. Sure, there might be some minor performance issues due to non-native code and perhaps even bigger due to some optimizations done to the version, which has this far only been compiled & released for OS4, which no-one has bothered recompiling to MorphOS - it's just not worth it.

As someone else mentioned, the GTK->MUI wrapper is way more interesting project.

Also, I do remember someone working on more "native" approach to run X11 programs on amigas & alikes, no idea what happened to that project.

Could also mention, that even if I do not quite like X11, I often use several X11 applications. But why I would run them on MorphOS / AmigaOS I don't understand. There are operating systems, on which X11 is THE standard (most linux distros, for example) so I rather use one of them.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 03-Jul-2009 at 11:19 AM.

@Jupp3

Quote:

Could also mention, that even if I do not quite like X11, I often use several X11 applications. But why I would run them on MorphOS / AmigaOS I don't understand. There are operating systems, on which X11 is THE standard (most linux distros, for example) so I rather use one of them.

I find it very confortable to have access to Abiword and Gnumeric without the need to install Linux on my A1 and to switch OS every time I need them.

Varthall

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@Fab

Everyone knows that AmiCygnix is slow with graphic updates because there's no hardware acceleration, however it allows you to do work on your favourite OS, which you could not do otherwise, until such things as a WxWidgets/GTK wrapper come around and make it possible to have these applications with native GUI.

If you've already done the work of porting it, then I really don't see why it would hurt so much to release it. This thread was started because someone would like to run some applications like AbiWord and Gnumeric under MorphOS, without having to boot OS4, so if all you have to do is to pack your work into an archive and upload it somewhere, why not do it? It would make some people happy, even if you don't have use for it youself, others might