@Trixie

Quote:

Kas1e tried to explain the situation in the Hyperion forums.

I found that in the meantime, thanks. But it still equals "no proper testing". A few years ago, a proper update would have been assembled and then tested on non-beta installations by dedicated beta testers. The latter step is quite important and apparently nobody's doing that anymore - plus nobody seems to be keeping track of dependencies properly (how can you release an Intuition update that requires fixes in other components without the fixed components?) which means untested combinations of software end up on end user systems.

But let me say it again: That is not the problem, there's only so much you can do with the limited manpower available to the team. And I actually appreciate the idea of using AmiUpdate to distribute smaller updates, I think I even congratulated ssolie for that decision.

The problem is, that everybody involved - developers, testers and users - don't face the actual problems but keep lying to themselves. Instead of admitting that the current situation sucks and that OS4 is at a dead end, we have the dev team leader starting his "os4 roadmap presentation" with the statement that he won't give you a roadmap "because of all the trolls out there", you have testers and endusers dismissing all problems as either non-essential or made up by some evil troll ("me: lack of DMA?" some tester: "it's fast enough for me. You never used it, did you?").

And honestly, "you don't have a clue what you're talking about" was the exact strategy Mike Bouma used to defend Amiga Inc. more than a decade ago - the fact that people are still using that defense (hello, abalaban) is saddening.

OS4 has problems. Lots of them, actually. It would make sense to discuss them and how they could be solved. But instead people are still getting the "why don't you crawl back into Buck's lap" treatment and we're all looking forward to the next big thing - a commercial LibreOffice port brought to you by the team who did not bring you a usable Timberwolf port. As if there weren't more important things to tackle first...

@cgutjahr

Quote:

It would make sense to discuss them and how they could be solved.

You can join Hyperion forums...

@cgutjahr

Quote:

A few years ago, a proper update would have been assembled and then tested on non-beta installations by dedicated beta testers.

Nonsense, a bug could have easily leaked even back then. There were numerous bugs in both OS2.x and 3.x - and yet these had been tested by an in-house team that actually got paid for their work! Just don't let nostalgia put rose-tinted glasses over your eyes: things weren't any better in the past. Operating systems are developed and tested by the same erring humans just like they were years ago.

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The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@cgutjahr

Bugs are a fact of life, they will always exist in every OS created by man, OS4 is no different. One problem is dependencies, change one file & it will show a bug in another & with the road to 4.2, this will happen more often, we are seeing it now.

You are biased aganst os4, no one has ever claimed its perfect, as you seem to imply. You don't see all the beta updates that repeat over & over again because the beta testers find bugs. We are only human & will always fail to be perfect in everything we do, but we do try.

The road map is 4,2, multicore, Gallium3D, a path that will have major changes & many new bugs to fight. There is a certain satisfaction in tracking down the cause of a bug that make sense to the developers, & they're very quick to fix them if we do.

You & others are free to dis-like os4, but no need to slap ppl around without knowing the whole story & trying to do things right.

Don't mean to pick on you, but you make to many assumptions that aren't right.

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@Trixie

Quote:

Nonsense

I was there, you know ? As in: I was personally witnessing it.

Not sure why you bring up Commodore, that's got nothing to do with "a few years ago". I was talking about (say) 2006/2007, when OS4 was not completely dead yet (just dying, because people behind the scenes had started to realise what was going on).

@sundown:
Quote:

You & others are free to dis-like os4

I very clearly stated what I dislike - and it's not OS4. But I have to admit, this one was a nice variant of the "you're just trolling" theme.

You and Trixie also have "it's not as bad as you make it sound" covered, aswell as "you don't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes". That's nearly full score - all we're missing is some management type showing up and saying something completely free of substance that sounds vaguely like "99 virgins for everyone".

Where's HyperionMP when you need him? It's a shame Fleecy's gone, he was also good at this.

@cgutjahr
Quote:

The problem is, that everybody involved - developers, testers and users - don't face the actual problems but keep lying to themselves. Instead of admitting that the current situation sucks and that OS4 is at a dead end,

But that has always been one of the key strengths of os4. The appearance that it is a well funded, proffesional effort because it has the official amiga stamp. Hence all the energy and positive optimisim that is generated by its supporters.

Just look at user Dax a year or two ago. Was expecting 3d drivers/video programs/smp just around the corner. Where is he now? But he still bought a copy of os4. Or thorn from osnews about the x1000 heralding a revoulution in the amiga scene and eating his own socks. Meanwhile the x1000 is still missing basic drivers.


If you take away this wild eyed enthusiasim and put forward a cloak of realism then os4 looses that something special, the fanaticsim of impending features and forgiveness of its current faults. This mindsets is a unique asset and sets it apart from other amiga inspired os efforts.

Last edited by cheesegrate on 16-Feb-2013 at 09:22 AM.
Last edited by cheesegrate on 16-Feb-2013 at 08:39 AM.

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@cgutjahr

Quote:

I was talking about (say) 2006/2007, when OS4 was not completely dead yet (just dying

Interesting. Looking back, I think OS4 is now in much better state than in 2006/2007. No available hardware, legal battle with Amiga.Inc etc.

@cheesegrate

Quote:

But that has always been one of the key strengths of os4. That it is a well funded, proffesional effort because it has the official amiga stamp. Hence all the energy and positive optimisim that is generated by its supporters.

I would never think I will ever agree with you, but in this point I fully share your opinion.

Quote:

This mindsets is a unique asset and sets it apart from other amiga inspired os efforts.

Exactly, greatest strength of AmigaOS is its name nad legacy - last relic of what left from the original Amiga.

@cgutjahr

Quote:

Not sure why you bring up Commodore

Only as an example to illustrate that developing and testing an OS can never be perfect even if you have enough resources to actually fund it. You say that the testing process was better when you "were there", and that things now got worse; I think this is an illusion. But I really don't want to get involved in a lengthy discussion about how we perceive things to be. A fixed ClickToFront has been released, and I'm sure the betatester team have learn their lesson.

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The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

I think that every one knows that OS4 has it problems, so talking it is just like talking about weather. I'm not a developer or betatester, so I don't have any influense to developing work.

If somebody wants to have some effect to OS4 develping, he can always write to hyperion's forum or try to get betatesting program.

I'm very pleased to my machine and OS4.

Last edited by utri007 on 16-Feb-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Last edited by utri007 on 16-Feb-2013 at 01:03 PM.

@amigadad

When I found that the old version of ClickToFront did not work properly with the new Intuition.library, I rolled back to the older version of Intuition.library as suggested by some others here.

A new version of ClickToFront is now available.

You have to update to the new version of Intuition.library first and then AmiUpdate will detect the new version of ClickToFront.

The new version of ClickToFront seems to work fine for me with the new version of Intution.library. I use two clicks of the left button on the mouse. I think this is default. I have not tried other combinations yet.

Update... 2 clicks works as I would expect.

Update... 1 click not working as I would expect.

Just tried setting for 1 click and it does not work as I would expect. Sometimes it works with one click and sometimes does not work even with more than one click. Seems to be random. i do not know if this behaviour is new to this version or if it was present in some previous versions of ClickToFront.

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redfox

Last edited by redfox on 16-Feb-2013 at 04:29 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 16-Feb-2013 at 04:27 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 16-Feb-2013 at 04:15 PM.

@redfox

Quote:

Just tried setting for 1 click and it does not work as I would expect. Sometimes it works with one click and sometimes does not work even with more than one click. Seems to be random.

A 1-click setting worked every time on the x1000, but failed random on my SAM440. A 2-click setting seemed to work fine on both, I'll bring it up in beta.

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