I want to debug a C/C++ program on Amiga. It should be command line based, since I want to use it as a source level debugger in my IDE.

The platform I am working on is AmigaO3.9 on WinUAE.

I am using GCC 2.95.3 if that matters.

First question: does that matter?
Do I need a specific GDB verison given a specific GCC, or is it (within reasonable boundaries) free to choose.
In Aminet I found GDB 4.16 http://aminet.net/package/dev/gg/gdb-bin
Will that work with GCC 2.95.3, or will I need GCC4.x?

Second question:
Does GDB need an MMU? Is my project doomed because its WinUAE+JIT based (no MMU with JIT)?

Third question:
Is this portable to other Platforms (OS4, MOS, AROS), by exchanging the GCC+GDB binaries, but keeping the command line calls with their parameters as-is?

Last question:
Is there an alternative that works better than GCC+GDB?

Last edited by Wanderer on 02-Mar-2013 at 04:10 PM.

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@Wanderer
anyone?

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@Wanderer

I skip the first questions I don't know, I do not make programs under classic AmigaOS3.x anymore.

I think you need MMU.

You need to compile all .c files whit -ggdb option to get debug symbols, this includes individually linked .o files.

Quote:

Third question: Is this portable to other Platforms (OS4, MOS, AROS), by exchanging the GCC+GDB binaries, but keeping the command line calls with their parameters as-is?

AmigaOS4 uses GCC, and GDB works, GDB works whit ELF PowerPC native binaries, I have no idea if GDB for OS4.1 can debug any other format (Hunk 680x0).

I always start debuging using

gdb "my_elf_exe_file_with_gdb_debug_symbols"

then I press r and enter, to start program or set break points and press r.

Quote:

Last question: Is there an alternative that works better than GCC+GDB?

On AmigaOS4 yes db101, on AmigaOS3.x I don't know.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Mar-2013 at 07:14 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Mar-2013 at 07:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Mar-2013 at 07:10 PM.

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@Wanderer

If the program is written in C then the SASC debugger is massively better than GDB.

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@ChaosLord

I need a debugger that runs in background. The visualization (sourcecode etc.) is done on my side. It should also be free software.

Why is the SASC debugger better? Can it debug GCC executables?

It is still not clear to me if MMU is required.That would be sadly a nogo. How was debugging done on Classic Amigas without MMU?

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@Wanderer

Quote:

Wanderer wrote: It is still not clear to me if MMU is required.That would be sadly a nogo. How was debugging done on Classic Amigas without MMU?

Debugging was not done on classic Amigas. Back then, men were men and horses were women. Backup was something we had heard of but couldn't get to work. And things cost less. Except for things that cost more.

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@olegil

I tried two version of gdb, and one crashes on breakpoints with "uninitialized trap vector", the other one says "Don't know how to run. Try "help target".".
Hm...

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@Wanderer

Quote:

Wanderer wrote: @ChaosLord Why is the SASC debugger better?

It has a gazillion features.

It lets u see your C source code and/or your asm source code simultaneously as u step over the code.

It actually works.

It can remotely source debug another machine across the serial port. So if u have a program that is crashing and burning the whole Amiga this is really powerful.

As many breakpoints as your heart desires.

Watch as many vars as you want, but this can be really slow so I never watch more than a couple of suspicious vars at once.

A gazillion other features.


Quote:

Can it debug GCC executables?

Hell no.


Quote:

It is still not clear to me if MMU is required.That would be sadly a nogo. How was debugging done on Classic Amigas without MMU?

I never really used it on anything without an MMU. But AFAIK u only need the MMU if u want the debugger to automatically stop every time you get an enforcer hit (MuGuardianAngel) and place the cursor on the offending line of C code. It is MuGuardianAngel that needs the MMU.

AFAIK for "normal" debugging u don't need it. I can't imagine why u would need an MMU to do regular simple debugging.


To be blunt:
If u are not using SASC debugger for C projects then u just are not taking things seriously and your progress will be much slower than it should be.

If u are not using MuGuardianAngel then you are not taking things seriously and your progress will be much slower than it should be.


You will waste hundreds of hours of time if you don't use the awesome tools that others have made for you. You will also cause yourself endless amounts of stress if you don't use a real debugger. I used to waste endless amounts of hours trying to track down a random bug. Then I discovered the SASC debugger, which is called CodeProbe or CPR, and *bam* the bug became instantly obvious and easy to fix.

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I wish I knew

I have to result to old school logging to try and figure out why something doesn't work, probably explains why it takes me ages to get something working properly on OS3

@ChaosLord

Thanks for the explanation.

Please understand that I dont need (and qcually dont want) an debugger with GUI.
I am perfectly fine if the commands are set through the command line / stdin.

And it must work with a free compiler, best would be GCC since I dont have to re-write the code for every platform that has a different toolchain.

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@Wanderer

This was long ago but on Amiga 500 you could insert break points and trace code using Mon. You dont need MMU to debug code but I dont know about GDB.

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@Wanderer

Quote:

Wanderer wrote: I am using GCC 2.95.3 if that matters. First question: does that matter? Do I need a specific GDB verison given a specific GCC, or is it (within reasonable boundaries) free to choose. In Aminet I found GDB 4.16 http://aminet.net/package/dev/gg/gdb-bin Will that work with GCC 2.95.3, or will I need GCC4.x?

Older versions of GCC should work with newer versions of GDB.
Quote:

Second question: Does GDB need an MMU? Is my project doomed because its WinUAE+JIT based (no MMU with JIT)?

No MMU is needed unless you want to use MuForce and MuGuardianAngel to trap errors that might cripple your system.
Quote:

Third question: Is this portable to other Platforms (OS4, MOS, AROS), by exchanging the GCC+GDB binaries, but keeping the command line calls with their parameters as-is?

Since the Amiga HUNK executable format was never fully supported by GDB, it will work on all of those platforms except AmigaOS 3.9 and earlier.
Quote:

Last question: Is there an alternative that works better than GCC+GDB?

Boy do I wish there was. I even tried EDebug under AmigaE and it still didn't always work.

@Samurai_Crow

Does anyone use gdb under 68k successully?

I tried two different versions (4.16, 4.18), both dont work properly.

The executable was a hello world with GCC 2.95.3.

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@Wanderer
I have heard of people using GDB successfully on 68k Amigas. GDB is primitive after using a debugger like BDebug (or even CodeProbe from SAS/C) from the Barfly package.

http://aminet.net/dev/asm/BarflyDisk2_00.lha

BDebug supports some source level debugging features with GCC STABS (GCC -gstabs). I use it all the time and it's very stable on my real 68060 Amiga. I bet a lot of your problems are because of UAE+JIT. You could turn JIT off and/or try a different UAE processor emulation as the stack frames are different and CPU specific.

@Wanderer

Quote:

Wanderer wrote: @ChaosLord Thanks for the explanation. Please understand that I dont need (and qcually dont want) an debugger with GUI. I am perfectly fine if the commands are set through the command line / stdin.

I don't care if a debugger has a GUI or not. All I care about is whether it works or not and whether it saves me massive amounts of time. SASC debugger does wonderous amazing things for me so I would never discriminate against it just because it comes with a GUI.

It might be possible to use it without the GUI. I donno because I never tried. It has that "source level debug Machine A remotely from Machine B over the serial port" feature which might somehow allow CLI debugging.



Quote:

And it must work with a free compiler,

GCC is not free if it costs you thousands of hours of time and stress. I value your time as an expert computer programmer to be at least $20.00 per hour. Now how much does GCC cost?

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@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: @Wanderer I have heard of people using GDB successfully on 68k Amigas. GDB is primitive after using a debugger like BDebug (or even CodeProbe from SAS/C) from the Barfly package. http://aminet.net/dev/asm/BarflyDisk2_00.lha BDebug supports some source level debugging features with GCC STABS (GCC -gstabs). I use it all the time and it's very stable on my real 68060 Amiga. I bet a lot of your problems are because of UAE+JIT. You could turn JIT off and/or try a different UAE processor emulation as the stack frames are different and CPU specific.

What does that mean? "supports some source level debugging features" ?

I am seriously considering trying to work with GCC C++ (or any of the other C++ packages for Amiga 680x0) so I am trying to figure out what all my options are.

Does Barfly work with debugging HUNK executables too?

I really want to switch to C++ on Amiga! But everything is so complicated

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@ChaosLord

Exactly why I want to integrate GDB (or any other debugger that works) into AIDE (my current project). "Source level" means roughly, that the Debugger is completely hidden and operated through the GUI of the IDE which gives commands to the Debugger.
E.g. you step through the source code in the source code editor (with all its bells and whistles), not in a seperate shell. You query variable values by moving the mouse over the source code, not by typing them in etc.)

However, my tests with GDB didnt work out very well. I got one combination with GCC and GDB to work, but as soon as I do something more complicated than single stepping, it GURUs.

Last edited by Wanderer on 08-Jul-2013 at 11:22 AM.

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@Wanderer

I happen to have my SASC manuals on my puter today so I found out that you CAN run SASC debugger from a shell!!!

Quote:

SASC Instruction Manual did Speaketh the Following Words: Line Mode You also can run CodeProbe as a line-mode debugger by starting it with the -line option. In line mode the debugger displays its output in the current Shell window. The -line option can be used to start the debugger from a remote Shell that has been started from an rlogin or from a Shell started across a serial line. For information about starting a Shell over a serial line, see the description of the AUX: device in The AmigaDOS Manual, 3rd Edition.12 Chapter 1 CodeProbe Windowing Interface CodeProbe provides a sophisticated windowing interface with multiple windows and pull-down menus. Windows are used to issue debugger commands, to receive output from CodeProbe commands, or to browse through the source code for your program. Screen Layout CodeProbe starts with the Source and Dialog windows open, as shown in Display 1.1. (BUY THE PROGRAM!) 13 Introduction to CodeProbe Once CodeProbe is running, you can opell, close, move, and resize windows. Display 1.2 is a sample CodeProbe screen showing the following windows: Source window Dialog window Memory window Register window Watch window.14 Chapter 1 CodeProbe Windows CodeProbe has 11 types of windows. You control the actual number of windows open during a debugging session. No matter how many windows are displayed, one of them will be the active window that is currently receiving, or waiting for, input. The title bar of the active window is highlighted (AmigaDOS Version 2.0 changes the color, and Version 1.3 ghosts the title bar when a window is not activated). The following list explains the function of each type of window:

It goes on and on....

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@ChaosLord

Where can I get this debugger, is it free, can I distribute it with my IDE and most important, does it work with GCC binaries? Or will I need to use a whole different tool chain?
The reason why I favour GCC is, that once integrated, it works for all Amiga and even not-so Amiga platforms.

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@Wanderer

Quote:

Wanderer wrote: @ChaosLord Where can I get this debugger,

Its all over the net.


Quote:

is it free,

The company has absolutely refused to sell it to anyone for over 10 years.

In the late 90's after SAS had officially dropped support for Amiga for a few years, they suddenly released a completely FREE updated SASC compiler (with other updated tools) for C++ support! Just gave it out for free! Its on Aminet if you don't believe me.

So, yes its free.


Quote:

can I distribute it with my IDE and most important, does it work with GCC binaries?

GCC does not produce Amiga-format exes. Its uses its own format.

I think I saw a proggy on Aminet that claimed to convert from GCC format to Amiga HUNK format. This could be the magic key that you need!


Quote:

Or will I need to use a whole different tool chain?

I think you can make all C compilers work with whatever make proggy you want.

But the linker probably needs to match the compiler.


Quote:

The reason why I favour GCC is, that once integrated, it works for all Amiga and even not-so Amiga platforms.

I understand that but since nobody can find a source level debugger that actually works with GCC and since the GCC team does not like Amiga 680x0 processors we are stuck.

If we get a proggy that converts GCC to Amiga HUNK format then we can probably use 2 or 3 different debuggers quite well.

Here I found it for you:
Convert GCC objects to Amiga HUNK format for FREE

I give u some knowledge, u do what u want

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