Interesting development

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/leaked-document-points-to-299-xbox-720-for-2013/


Quote:

The "Xbox 720" described in the planning document will be six to eight times more powerful than the Xbox 360 (depending on where you look in the document). A vague "snapshot" of the Yukon architecture for the system shows a core application architecture featuring six to eight 2Ghz ARM/x86 cores, with two additional ARM/x86 cores powering the system OS and three PowerPC cores handling backward-compatibility functions. The document strongly suggests that this base hardware will be available in multiple configurations with different feature sets, using an the architecture is "designed to be scalable in frequency/number of cores," and a "modular design to facilitate SKU updates later in lifecycle."

So PPC would be used only for backwards compatibility.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Sorry but that article is complete BS. Ask me how I know.

@tommywright

Ok so how do you know

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My 360 can already do HD graphics so what could the next Xbox offer?

Higher resolution textures, more shaders, more......stuff.

It's going to be interesting how many people think it's worth upgrading from the current generation.

Last edited by NovaCoder on 17-Jun-2012 at 07:00 AM.

@WolfToTheMoon

The 'leaked document' is so old that it surely only references early discussions of the platform. I'm sure that the ARM/x86/PPC stuff were options rather than including them all. Since then they've made a choice (presumably PowerPC again) and the current SoC diagram would probably look vastly different.

@NovaCoder

Modern GPUs are roughly 24x as powerful as the 360/PS3. So indeed there's lots to be offered. Desktop gaming is held back as consoles are the majority platform. While gameplay is always paramount there's no reason that more/better eyecandy isn't useful. I gamed in the 80s and I game now. I think the next generation is going to clearly go beyond what we've seen before.

As for upgrading from the current gen. I don't have any worries there. Gaming has grown and grown and it'll continue to grow. When $200 next gen consoles are available we'll see the casual gamer move. And if Microsoft ensures backwards compatibility the reasons to move come even sooner. If one's 360 breaks buy the new 720. All your old games work and you're ready for the new stuff.

My point is that historically each generation of consoles has been able to offer significantly better graphics (along with other updates) that the generation before it, this time the it will be different.

XBOX/PS3 games are already putting out the best signal my LCD can handle.

Add in the fact that because XBOX/PS3 are online machines their capabilities have constantly been updated.

So if MS brings out a new XBOX and says to me, ok games will look a little be better than what you currently have, how about you give me $500 for the privilege?

Can guess the answer

@NovaCoder

Quote:

XBOX/PS3 games are already putting out the best signal my LCD can handle

If you don't think 360/ps3 graphics can be improved upon, have a look at modern PC high-end games.

The 360 and ps3 are tech from 2005, games like Crysis 2, Skyrim, bf3 etc all look much more detailed and smoother on a high end gaming pc.

All the next gen consoles will do is bring them up to spec with current pcs.

I can't see Microsoft using the name Xbox 720 either, it doesn't even make sense. 360 meant 360 degrees, "all around you immersion", there's no such thing as 720 degrees.

@Hattig

Quote:

The 'leaked document' is so old that it surely only references early discussions of the platform. I'm sure that the ARM/x86/PPC stuff were options rather than including them all. Since then they've made a choice (presumably PowerPC again) and the current SoC diagram would probably look vastly different.

The doc apparently dates from 2010. Interestingly this is the same year Microsoft bought an ARM architecture license. Why they bought it has never been specified exactly but the Xbox was always one of the rumours.

Since then development systems have appeared and they have 16 core processors. IBM built the chips but other than that nothing is known about them.

The fact IBM did them would imply that they are PPC, but that's not necessarily the case. Give IBM enough money and they will build whatever you want.


BTW This is all speculation, I know nothing about the details.

Last edited by minator on 18-Jun-2012 at 12:25 AM.

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@minator

Yeah you have hit the mail on the head. It's all speculation. It's like when Apple farts and everyone expects the next iPhone tome come out. My theory is these things are released intentionally to drive up expectation and interest before the system is released.

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Quote:

danwood wrote: @NovaCoder The 360 and ps3 are tech from 2005, games like Crysis 2, Skyrim, bf3 etc all look much more detailed and smoother on a high end gaming pc.

I've seen Crysis 2 on a high end PC and yes it looked awesome, but I'd need to run it side by side with the 360 version to really notice the difference. You couldn't say the same thing about an XBOX vs XBOX 360 game could you.

@minator

Windows 8 has already been announced for ARM. I think what Microsoft likely did was buy a license so if no one else makes them they could make it themselves. (Though yes we won't know until we see it.) One noteable thing with ARM is the TrustZone which will enable future payments and other security improvements. I'm sure Microsoft didn't want to be left in the dust on that as neither AMD nor Intel were bringing it to the table at the time.

I'm not too worried about Windows 8 or the next Xbox on any processor. Microsoft has done X86 along with PPC and Alpha for their OSes. Not to mention ARM for their phones. If anyone can pull together a system that is fairly agnostic to CPU it's Microsoft.

Last edited by BrianK on 18-Jun-2012 at 02:14 AM.

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: Interesting development http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/leaked-document-points-to-299-xbox-720-for-2013/ Quote: The "Xbox 720" described in the planning document will be six to eight times more powerful than the Xbox 360 (depending on where you look in the document). A vague "snapshot" of the Yukon architecture for the system shows a core application architecture featuring six to eight 2Ghz ARM/x86 cores, with two additional ARM/x86 cores powering the system OS and three PowerPC cores handling backward-compatibility functions. The document strongly suggests that this base hardware will be available in multiple configurations with different feature sets, using an the architecture is "designed to be scalable in frequency/number of cores," and a "modular design to facilitate SKU updates later in lifecycle." So PPC would be used only for backwards compatibility.

Future AMD APUs includes ARM Cortex A5 in addition to x86-64 and GCN(includes x86-64 IP) cores.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/amd-2013-apus-to-include-arm-cortexa5-processor-for-trustzone-capabilities

Intel's Trusted Execution Tech specs wasn't included in X86 specs.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Jun-2012 at 07:21 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Jun-2012 at 07:12 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Jun-2012 at 07:07 AM.

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@tommywright

Quote:

tommywright wrote: @WolfToTheMoon Sorry but that article is complete BS. Ask me how I know.

Because you forgot that your NDA doesn't allow you to comment forthcoming product in public?

@Novacoder

The thing is though that very few ps3/xb360 games actually run in 1080P, even 720P games arent the norm. Try running a current game on a current gen console, then running the same game on anything resembling a current pc and the difference is huge. I love my xbox360, but I have both it, and my media centre pc connected to my big screen 1080P tv and the difference between the 2 is very, very noticable, even with multiformat games, let alone games that push the pcs hardware. My media centre pc is ok, but far from cutting edge as well (i7-2600k, gf gtx 570). Current consoles truly are last generation technology. As with anything when you get used to a certain quality, lower quality really stands out. Apart from a few games I cant play my xbox360 anymore without finding it dated looking. Not to say I still dont enjoy it (if graphics were the most important thing I wouldnt be using amiga :)), but as often as not the difference between current tech. and ps3/xb360 is no smaller than ps2/xb1 vs ps3/xb360. Moreso when run on a larger t.v.

What would be nice though is if triple screen support was an option for consoles. I had the opportunity to play a few modern games on a tri screen gaming setup (1 middle view, 2 peripheral), and its pretty darn cool, albiet a little too elaborate for my wallet at the moment :) Pushing a resolution of 5760x1080 or higher with current high game settings isnt cheap :)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 18-Jun-2012 at 12:46 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 18-Jun-2012 at 12:40 PM.

@fishy_fis

They are multiple generations behind really, pre-G80 in fact and a G80 is all you need on the PC to handle pretty much any console port, truly illustrating how crap console hardware is.
I am only really excited about new consoles because they`ll raise the bar for PC gaming again which will be wicked. All this 5760x1080 16xAA nonsense is getting old now!

I know this gets said every time but I believe that high end PC games will close with reality sometime after the next consoles come out.

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@Frags

Well, when I say "last gen" I mean more in console terms. Theyve dated to a similar level that ps2 and xb1 had at the time the 360 and ps3 were released (for 3d at least, there's some genres that even the current consoles have more than enough power for).

I must admit though, even though the "on paper" specs of a console werent favorable vs. pc hardware from 5 years ago, its not exactly accurate to compare gpu+cpu only, as the architecture of consoles holds a few advantages, which usually buys them a few extra years vs. similar on paper specs of pcs. That time is long, long passed by now though :)

@fishy_fis

Of course, I was agreeing with you really. Triple monitors are alright but it`s just a gimmick really. 2560 wide (with AA) is plenty for even a huge projector in my opinion and that can wrap around if you desire.

I look forward to better 3D support (as in stereo 3D) in general. PC gaming on a projector in polarised or high frequency shutter 3D is truly a taste of the future it`s amazing. Resolution wise I think we`re pretty much there.

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Fraggle

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@Frags

Not meaning to be arguementative, but I dont think Id call triple screen gaming a gimmick any more than Id call stereo sound a gimmick. If the normal view was simply spread across 3 screens, then maybe Id agree, but that's not the way it works, and having peripheral vision really adds something. I must admit though it does make some games easier when you have a much broader vision of the enemies :)

Graphics Software is outpacing Consoles