Quote:

recent drivers

You mean drivers not accessible to mortals ?

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Kronos
ouch, you are right!

On a general note we can see that a Sam (440epFlex) gets 20 FPS with a 9250 and 26Fps with a 9000, with the next update and a strong 9000 chances are it will even the score or go pretty close.

Now, The PEG 2 has a stronger CPU, faster Video-Bus (AGP right?) and altivec optimized MiniGL and yet the gain is minimal today and probably none tomorrow (on OS4 at least).
Puzzling...


@Fab
Wow, 1.5Ghz or not, those are truly great numbers!

Last edited by DAX on 20-May-2011 at 08:49 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 20-May-2011 at 08:08 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 20-May-2011 at 08:05 PM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@DAX
Quote:

Now, The PEG 2 has a stronger CPU, faster Video-Bus (AGP right?)

The Pegasos 2 has "fake" AGP. While it's physically an AGP slot (to accept cheap, widely available cards of the time), "true" AGP is not available with it. From driver's POV, it works like a 66Mhz PCI slot.

@Thread:
The whole 9000/9200/9250 compare is flawed. Technically speaking, the 9000, 9200 and 9250 chips are very similar. I had a 128bit 9000 (non-Pro) and now have a 128bit 9200 in my Pegasos 2, and I get *exactly* the same FPS/etc values from both cards. The difference is, 9200 chip supports 8x AGP protocol, but that's not used in the Pegasos 2, obviously. I switched to the 9200 because it has passive cooling, while the 9000 had a fan on it. (Photo, 9200 on top, 9000 on bottom.)

The 9250 is the same as 9200, but runs with a slightly lower core frequency. However, there are 128bit 9250s (I have two, in fact, one in my 2nd Pegasos 2, and one in my Efika), and they're only a little bit slower than my 9000 and 9200.

Of course, the market is full of 64bit, "9200SE", "9250SE" and such cards, and thoose are really slower indeed. But one shouldn't judge the capabilities of the chip itself, because someone built a low-budget, low-performance hardware on it. Proper cards with 128bit memory bus give good performance, almost no matter the version of the Radeon R200 on them.

Last edited by Chain-Q on 20-May-2011 at 09:19 PM.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@DAX

I believe that the Pegasos 2 AGP slot is actually a rewired PCI 66Mhz slot. The Marvell Discovery II data sheet certainly doesn't mention AGP.

@thread

ok guys good 3d driver discussions but I'd like to see other comparisons like ram speed, hd speeds, 2d, application speed etc plz

I don't know why os4 ppl are obsesses with fps because there are vietually no good games for it. I'm so tired of quake you can't imagine I mean it's what 15 yrs old now?

you wanna see a cool game it's wolfenstein for morphos (which hasn't even been released a year later) and even that game is old..

@Chain-Q

Exactly. In the comparison DAX makes a 9250 with a 64-bit memory bus must have been used. The difference between a 9250 with a 128-bit bus and a 9000/9200 would be very small as a 9250 is clocked less than 10% lower than those cards. 9000pro, or 9200pro (which are extremely hard to find), is clocked 10% higher than non pro´s.

Last edited by Niolator on 21-May-2011 at 11:52 AM.

By the way, wasn't there an Italian forum that had an extensive list of AmigaNG machines and their performance?

@all

Still no one with Sam460 + radeon9250 who want to make some tests and compare it with my peg2 + radeon9250 ?

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@kas1e

I don't have a radeon 9250 and I think the most owners of a Sam 460 have a Radeon HD installed in their system

Last edited by kyle on 24-May-2011 at 04:35 PM.

@realize

Quote:

I'm so tired of quake you can't imagine I mean it's what 15 yrs old now?

Its better to play the games on Windows7, more games, best 3d drivers, and new games.
Whats the use of having 3D when you don't have any new games to play.

A 3D benchmark is useless when most of software/games you run is 2D.

Don't get me wrong I love to have faster 3D for some demos / intros and some music discs

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-May-2011 at 05:07 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @all Still no one with Sam460 + radeon9250 who want to make some tests and compare it with my peg2 + radeon9250 ?

What's the use in benchmarking the slow PCI 66Mhz bus?

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

A 3D benchmark is useless when most of software/games you run is 2D.

All the games which i plays on my amigaos4 today, are all use 3d. How bechmarks can be useless ? And some software which i use also use 3D (lodepaint / blender / celestia).

Quote:

What's the use in benchmarking the slow PCI 66Mhz bus?

I sometime not understand what you want to ask or to say, but we want to make those benchmarks, to see, on real life examples, what HW will be faster in real life, and not in theories.

I.e. run for example LodePaint, and see how many FPS will be on peg2/radeon9250 and on sam460/radeon9250. Run some games which show FPS, run some SDL-benchmarks and so on. To see, if the memory-bus speed make any difference in real life on those 2 configs or not, did video-bus speed make any difference or not and so on.

HD radeons not have 3d support for now, so to have full supported new HW, we need to put radeon9250 to sam460, but, still need to compare, will it faster than peg2 , or not.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-May-2011 at 05:20 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 24-May-2011 at 05:16 PM.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@kas1e

Quote:

All the games which i plays on my amigaos4 today, are all use 3d.

Most of the games on OS4Depot is SDL 2D games whit no need for 3D,
then you have all the UAE games.
MacOS7 games only need 2D.

Yes the best games are 3D games, but they are in minority.

Quote:

on real life examples

In real life people use pci express, many times faster then PCI.

The PCI 66Mhz slot is most likely used by SB Live card (until the on board audio driver is ready) or used by a SII/SIL card to get more SATA connections.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Most of the games on OS4Depot is SDL 2D games whit no need for 3D,

Why you start to talk about os4depot, and which games it have or not have. We talk about 3D at all. Not about what os4depot have or not. And just to clarify, all the more or less interesting games on os4depot are all want 3D.

Quote:

then you have all the UAE games. MacOS7 games only need 2D.

We talks about 3d, not about UAE or 2D or about Macos, or windows, or anything else.


Quote:

In real life people use pci express, many times faster then PCI.

Uhm ... We talk about comparing peg2 with radeon9250 and sam460 with radeon9250 !
Not because we do not know that PCi-E faster than AGP , but becuase we want to compare exactly peg2 with radeon9250, and exactly sam460 with radeon9250. Because radeon9250 support 3d already. And we want to compare 3d , because we want to compare 3d.

Quote:

The PCI 66Mhz slot is most likely used by SB Live card (until the on board audio driver is ready) or used by a SII/SIL card to get more SATA connections.

We not talk about what "most likely will be" in sam460, we talk that we need someone who have in his sam460 radeon9250.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

Hmm still no benchmarks.. cmon guys I know you have systems out there. Ka1se will provide peg2 results no problem. I'd be interested in peg2 vs Sam with Radeon HD in 2d as well. Any comparisons are welcome please.

@realize

Note that, SAM460 has PCI-e 4x lanes slot (PCI-e 16x physical slot), PCI-e 1x slot and PCI slot (32 bit, 33 Mhz). SAM460 doesn't have an AGP physical slot.

Need to find a SAM460 owner with AMD Radeon 9250 PCI edition.

Last edited by Hammer on 25-May-2011 at 08:25 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 25-May-2011 at 08:24 AM.

_________________

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @DAX 31 fps its still suck. Better than nothing of course, but , on my peg2, on morphos, with all the same HW, i have quake3 working on 50% faster. I.e. on amigaos4 25 fps, on morphos 2.5 = 47-48 fps or kind. I mean there is something somethere which slow the thinks a lot. And it even can be not warp3d (but i hope is it). .

it's cpu bottleneck,
800 mhz without l2 cache and embedded class processor i think it's too slow for radeon 92xx (64bit or 128bit).
After you can add poor Warp3D drivers..

_________________

@Seiya

". on amigaos4 25 fps, on morphos 2.5 = 47-48 fps or kind. I mean there is something somethere which slow the thinks a lot."

So, the poster compared peg2+MOS vs peg2+AOS4.


But I think 800Mhz SAM440 could/should perform almost like Xbox1 (after we get up-to-date 3D drivers).
((IIRC, xbox1 has 733Mhz P3/celeron, SAM has 800Mhz and no L2 or MMX, and SAM can have more powerfull 3D chip))

The topic is about SAM460 vs Peg2.
I imagine SAM460+AOS4 should be almost equal with Peg2+AOS4.

And once we get new 3D drivers for AOS4, AOS4 might be competitive with MOS on 3D things.

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-May-2011 at 03:00 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-May-2011 at 02:56 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-May-2011 at 02:56 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@kas1e

you wrote:
Still no one with Sam460 + radeon9250 who want to make some tests and compare it with my peg2 + radeon9250 ?

when you ask that you have to underline the kind of the memory on the graphic card: 64 or 128 bit, it's very important, my sam460 has got a RadeonHD 4670dd3 and i'm not thinking to replace it with slower 64bit 9250 card, only if i find a 9200 or 9250 with 128 bit memory i'll replace it, but these cards seem too difficult to find especially in pci version. At the end i don't think we have to wait a lot for the first implementation of Gallium and the driver for R600/700, now we have a big gap between os4 and mos (and aros) in 3d compartment so Hyperion (and Hans ) must work hard in this way.

Last edited by SOFISTISOFTWARE on 25-May-2011 at 08:48 PM.

_________________
Sam 460EX, 2Gb Ram, Radeon R7 250, AmigaOS4.1 FE
A4000 PPC604@233, Mediator
A1200 PPC603@160, Mediator
uA1 G3@800, 512 Mb [sold]

@SOFISTISOFTWARE

So for now it's better to have a 9250 than a 4670 if you want 3D?

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk