@NutsAboutAmiga

It is running full original 68k code developed by the original developers. If I take your definition Amithlon is more amiga than X1000 or similar.

@OlafS25

It runs on a Linux kernel, and Exec/Dos and every thing else is running emulated, minus the chipset was taken out due to overhead.

http://de4.aminet.net/pix/mpg/Amithlon2.mpg

As being told it runs on Linux, its not a OS of its own right.

http://aminet.net/pix/mpg/Amithlon3.mpg

I the first thing that is sayed in this clip by Bernie Meyer the developer is emulator.

http://fi.aminet.net/pix/mpg/Amithlon5.mpg

it uses the Linux IDE drivers, no drivers for this under AmigaOS.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 11:50 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 11:45 AM.

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@resle

Quote:

Once more: is it Amiga?

Can't tell from the information you provided. Nowhere did you state, whether or not it's branded.

In same way AmigaOne X1000 isn't an Amiga, but "AmigaOne branded device".

What you run on it doesn't change what it is. On the other hand, "what it is" shouldn't really matter at all

@Jupp3

Quote:

AmigaOne branded device

AmigaOne is Amiga brand.

@OlafS25

Quote:

If I take your definition Amithlon is more amiga than X1000 or similar.

How so Amithlon is a tiny emulator designed to emulate the OS, not the hardware.
AmigaOS4 is updated and recompiled version of AmigaOS3 for PowerPC hardware.

None of the system have chipset emulation.

AmigaONE is deigned for PowerPC AmigaOS 4.x, a standard pc is deigned to run Windows, dos, Linux, not Amithlon or AmigaOS.

Amithlon the JIT compiler is used to emulate the OS.

vs

AmigaOS 4.x the JIT compiler is not to emulated the OS (you can remove it from kickstart), its there so it can convert 680x0 program into runnable PowerPC native JIT cache that can be executed by the CPU.

Amithlon the drivers are wrapped on top of Linux.

vs

AmigaOS4.x the drivers are native, does not need Linux or another OS to run.

AmigaOS4.x is recompiled version of AmigaOS3.x, and where some of the parts has ben upgraded a lot where some of the part has not been updated a lot.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 12:18 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 12:17 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 12:15 PM.

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So far

Answer category 1: it's Amiga if it's made by one of the original Amiga companies.
So... if a Windows X86 computer branded "Amiga" was produced in the 90s by Commodore-Amiga, you would consider that an Amiga too?

Answer category 2: it's Amiga if the hardware replicates the AGA functionalities, if the "System smoothness" is preserved, etc..
This sounds like blindfolded faith to me. All the chipsets in the original amiga HW are greatly surpassed by current technologies. Do you really think that a present Nvidia chipset of any kind (but even one from 10 years ago) is in any way inferior compared to the AGA chipset? Smoothness... responsivity... I can barely distinguish between systems today, whether it's a MAC or a Windows or Linux box... we're talking of differences in seconds for the heavy load operations, and milliseconds for common OS tasks.

Answer category 3: a cautious, suspicious "yes".
To this, I repeat: seriously imagine waking up, sitting in front of your AmigaOS 4 machine, turning it on and finding out that all of a sudden it's 10 times faster, it's using 4 cores, it's running some app from 2013 but hey - it's still your machine, you can't understand what happened. Then a super techie friend comes, inspects it deeply and finds that someone replaced the hardware with some cheap X86 stuff, and that everything is running on then [whatever] kernel. is it Amiga?.

@Spirantho

Quote:

Real Amigas - even OS4 ones - offer a smoothness and customisability that no Linux or Windows core can offer.

What is it you wish to customise?

@resle

Quote:

You turn on this box. The workbench appears. It has your familiar top menu, plus desktop. Folders are drawers, programs are tools. Sys, Prefs, everything is where it's meant to be. Screens are draggable. Datatypes are in place. 3.x programs, they work. Old games, they work. PLUS: SMP is supported. Memory protection is supported. OpenGL is fully supported. Would the first part make this an Amiga, and the second part make it a ... MODERN amiga? And if so, would you care at all of what the underlying Kernel and HW architecture are? That's all.

There are some points missing:

Is the responsivity of the WIMP interface of the "newbox", the same responsivity of old Amiga?

Does the workbench hang up like in Winzozz or does it work flawlessy in any situation?

Has it own kernel and unique structures or there is another OS underneath like as maybe Linux kernel?

(and note that:

The real important question is the latter one......)



The answer is:

If it features amigaish own solutions, kernel, "intuition" of use, then there is still Amiga, or some sort of amiga evolution...

If it features another OS underneath the visible structure of desktop and filesystem then there is NO Amiga anymore...


Simple... Isn't it?

Last edited by Raffaele on 09-Mar-2013 at 12:41 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 09-Mar-2013 at 12:39 PM.

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@resle

Quote:

Answer category 1

An Amiga Inc mistake.

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amiedevsys.html

Quote:

Answer category 2

It's about to enjoy their games as they were written in some hardware to connect to modern monitors or Tv's, the hardware can't be sold whit ROM's or the branding due to Amiga Inc owning the rights.

Quote:

Answer category 3

Some thing acting as some thing else is emulation, it does not matter that bought something from ebay and was very sad when you found out that it was not what you thought

“carhegory 2” would not have existed if the emulsion is better than real hardware, unlikely they'd better or faster, CPU emulation is expensive, and AmigaOS can't magically get multi core support whit out a redesign.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 01:17 PM.

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@resle

@cathegory 1: as soon as there is a device branded amiga, there is nothing we can do about it. its not our choice and not our concern.

@carhegory 2: based on original amiga functionality you may consequently extend where possible like in case of natami, or other fpga projects. without branding these devices are not amigas, but may be reffered to as amiga compatibles alright.

@cathegory3: os4 similarly as amithlon is based on foreign kernel (execsg), similarly macos is based in foreign kernel, so it doesnt matter much whats underneath apparently. the question is rather subjective, i think most will say: if it behaves like amiga, it is one.

@resle

I think what your really asking, is if your happy whit what you have and to you its Amiga, can you call it a Amiga privately, well you can, but not officially and not per definition.

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@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

The hardware must be open, compatible with most AGA functions with few exceptions and hardware banging must be supported.

AGA in FPGA could provide that, sadly its not offered for SAM 460 or some advanced Minimig,
seems FPGA Replay is only to have it

Its hash criteria since AGA cant be onboard of newer chipsets.

Some AGA soft emulation really should be introduced with MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 instead of
UAE. since there is a fast 68k JIT already

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@vox

AmigaOS4

The graphic modes are emulated, as fake AGA or planar on chunky graphics, GUI prefs has some option for that, but there are no chips in software, too CPU expensive and this a OS not a emulator.

If you need more you can always start it in EUAE.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 01:52 PM.

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In my opinion if the machine depends on amiga based apis then it's near enough.
Currently this would includes real commodore 68k amigas (obviously), os4.x, mos, aros, draco, minimig, fpga arcade and amithlon (and those set top box style devices that used 68k amiga hardware whose name currently escapes me). If something else came along that meets these definitions Id consider it amiga as well.

While UAE also runs amiga os software it relies on a foreign system and dependencies, so Im personally not comfortable calling it an amiga (even though it can provide a nice amiga experience).

@fishy_fis

Quote:

In my opinion if the machine depends on amiga based apis then it's near enough.

Apis are software thing there for hardware or machines can't depend on it, you can replace the kickstart rom on classic Amiga whit some thing else if you like.

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@fishy_fis

Of all the emulation solutions FPGA is the only on that can latterly becomes the hardware its trying to emulate, so this the one that can be instead of acting as.

The software does not know the hardware is not the same, the CPU does not know, its just all there all hardware registers, and it all works.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 09-Mar-2013 at 09:54 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Replace "machine", with "system" then if that floats your boat better.

Im also well aware of what fpga is. Do you have a point here?

Last edited by fishy_fis on 09-Mar-2013 at 02:29 PM.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Can os4 run ocs or aga demos without euae?

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@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

Can os4 run ocs or aga demos without euae?

If these follow OS compatibilty guidelines set by Commodore...