@fishy_fis

I think pavlor is think more of the people who stopped using their Amiga in the mid 90's. I expect that many gamers didn't even realise you could connect a CD drive to the Amiga.

@amigang

Quote:

amigang wrote: @Franko Explain the music industry then? Before MP3s or music being digital there was a very health market in music because it was difficult to copy and share, now its easy to do so people who use to buy it dont anymore.

I don't need to as that's not what we are talking about here plus I don't actually care about the music industry and whether people choose to pirate their music collection. All that matters to me when it comes to music is that I own the original CDs or Vinyl as MP3s are of such poor quality I wouldn't offend my ears with them let alone pirate them... (MP3's are fine for portable devices to listen to on trains or buses but at home I wouldn't give them the time of day)

Like I've said from my own personal experience of Amiga users and Commodore users over the years, if they are of the type who are happy to "own" pirate copies of all their software then they are also of the type whom in my experience will never actually purchase the stuff, so no sales are lost as they would never buy the stuff under any circumstances...

Very few people I have ever known from the days of the VIC 20 through to the Amiga actually purchased most of their software collection but there were always some whom after trying out a Pirate version actually went out and purchased the original...

Seeing as how you demanded an explanation about the music industry for some reason then OK... here it is... (feeling generous today)...

You talk about Piracy of MP3's hurting the music industry and claim there was a very healthy market before then, you are partially correct in that...

It wasn't MP3s being easy to pirate that hurt the music industry as you think. Music has been pirated since the time of the audio cassette long before MP3s and the internet were invented and even more easily so as almost every household had a record player and a cassette recorder...

The music industry died because the vast majority of music and bands since the end of the 80s are basically crap and no one wanted to listen or buy the gawd awful so called music most manufactured boy/ girl bands inflicted upon our eardrums...

I have only bought 14 CDs this century 4 were by bands from this century while the other 10 were bands from the 80s whom finally released their original albums on CD... the music industry sales went down the pan since the mid 90's because the music being produced by the majority of modern bands is just so awful no many want to listen to it let alone buy it...

PS: Heres a strange thing regarding music, I recently was given permission from a new band called "Disappearing Cowboy" to use (basically pirate) some of their music and videos and use them on YouTube or as I see fit...

This is their original video on my YouTube Channel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzJzny1vlo0

And this is an extended version of their video and music I just completed a few days ago and is posted on my YouTube channel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPJTpwoN_MI

The band have given me permission to do what I want with some of their videos/ music and post or give it away as I see fit (ie: for free)... Why... because they see it as a way of promoting their music to a wider audience in the hope that people whom see/ listen to it will enjoy it so much that they will purchase the bands music...

Whether it works or not, it's too soon to say but it kinda comes back to what I said about OS4, some people whom try out the "pirate" version it might actually lead them to purchase the original...

PS: Out of interest the Video was edited on my iMac but the Audio was edited on my good old miggie...

_________________

@Rob

Quote:

I think pavlor is think more of the people who stopped using their Amiga in the mid 90's. I expect that many gamers didn't even realise you could connect a CD drive to the Amiga.

Exactly.

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @fishy_fis I think pavlor is think more of the people who stopped using their Amiga in the mid 90's. I expect that many gamers didn't even realise you could connect a CD drive to the Amiga.

I doubt it... as on eBay there is forever pirate CDs/ DVDs of huge Amiga software collections for sale (mostly games) and they always sell before eBay bans them...

So they most likely have CD or DVD drives connected to their miggies to use them. Although those seem to have been taken over now with people selling CF cards & adapters loaded with every bit of Amiga software under the sun... pirate of course...

_________________

@Franko

The music industry is changing going to selling cd's to being a subscription service ITunes, Wimp, Spotify to name a few popular ounces, infect I'm not surprised if I'm paying more to the music industry now then before.

Having the music where ever you go, easy to organizes the music and easy to find new music, I love Spotify, way pirate music when commercial distributers gives you better service.

I think the biggest problem now is film industry, if they are able to adapt to new world or not.

Software has always been pirated; on the other hand games now days are often online games, so you are rally just paying for a user account not the game.

What is happening is that middle man is disappearing, but game prizes are the same, its rally insane.

What worries me is all the store jobs that are disappearing due to online shopping, fewer jobs to share when you have worrying economic situation in most countries.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Feb-2013 at 04:42 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Feb-2013 at 04:40 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Franko

I think piracy is an age thing to a degree.
When I was a younger fella my dual tape deck was pretty regularly high speed dubbing various albums, and my video players were often connected and recording whatever movies I could get ahold of. The "digital age" hasnt changed much other than the methods used for piracy.
As people get older and have more disposable income they tend to buy more original titles. Also, speaking for myself at least (and Im sure Im not alone here) I enjoy giving a little bit of money to people that have given me some entertainment (be it software, music, movies, whatever). I also have a lot more pride in my collection of originals (complete with packaging, etc.) than I could ever have in a bunch of soulless data on a storage medium.

As for mp3s, theyre typically a lot better quality these days. 320kbps/16 bit stereo is pretty darn close to cd on the right playback equipment. A few years ago I'd have agreed with you about mp3 sound quality when things were encoded at roughly "a meg a minute" (as was the mantra of the time), but these days its not too bad.

Now as for the quality of music today (as opposed to quality of sound) I think a big part of that is down to record labels, and their *rue morgues (where music goes to die in the name of a fast, marketable buck).


*A nickle plated no prize with twiddly bits to anyone who knows where this reference comes from. Absolutely brilliant album, and a massive contrast to what they were known for in early 80's. TBH I'd quite disliked them apart from a few tracks here and there previously.

@NutsAboutAmiga

That's one of the things I really despise about todays music industry is all this change to "online" sales and poor quality MP3s and the almost monopoly iTunes is beginning to garner...

I wouldn't mind so much if they sold AIFF files so that i could burn them to CD or play them from HD in full CD quality but I will never buy MP3 music as the quality simple isn't there, plus I like to have an actual physical copy of the album and and its artwork/ cover...

As for movies, watching "online" is a big No No for me, again for the simple fact of poor quality (by that I mean some very low poor encoding often used to fit in with download bandwidth and the crap picture modern day LCDs produce for watching things like movies) plus the fact I prefer to own the physical DVD and watch them on a CRT screen...



@ Fishy_Fis

I agree with you about the age thing 100%...

I can't agree with you on the quality of MP3s though. The treble is (even at 320lbps/ 16 bit) still of inferior quality when listed to on a high end system at home (fine for travelling like I said) but for quality listening, then for me no chance...

All my music and movies have to be originals, as just like you the packaging and ownership of the "physical" media is a for me a very important part of my collection (not the main thing but important nonetheless)...

It's like old SNES R.P.G. games, in the past couple of years I've spent nearly 3 grand buying originals in their boxes with all the manuals, maps, leaflets etc... paying up to 260 quid just for one game. Simply because I love the games and just like my music & movies owning the "packaging" is just as important to me...

One thing though, I would never pay the same to replace all those thousands of original Amiga games that I sent to the dump a number of years ago, as games for me on the miggie just never had that appeal or pride of ownership that other stuff has...

Kinda makes me glad there aren't many modern bands these days that I want to listen too as it seems for the most part you can only buy their stuff in MP3 format and that for me simply isn't good enough...

_________________

Long ago, there was some "AmigaOS4.iso" (don't remember the actual filename, actually checked that it indeed was there) on emule network.

A while later, it was confirmed to be a renamed episode of Futurama.

Just pointing out that if you see a torrent, it necessarily isn't what it claims to be.

Also, music industry is known to have uploaded some fake releases to torrent sites (Hyperion probably wouldn't do that, but some users maybe)

But of course, the torrent can also be exactly what it claims to be.

@terminills

Quote:

http://orgtheory.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/the-history-of-recording-industry-sales-1973-2010/

Its says how many units was shipped, not how much money they made, and because of how easy it is to copy or just play the music off the net, they have really had to cut prices and now pay the apple tax. I think they needed to change and lower the price but now that profits are tighter they spend less on investing in new artist or taking risk so that why so much of the music is the same crap.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@amigang

Pirating music should have existed a long time before digital music existed. As long as people have a dual audio casette deck. One of which only has playback but the other one can record. It can record off of a microphone but it can also sneak content from a radio station or copy any audio casette.

@franko

never would I prefer a DVD or a CD or anything that can scratch or break. downloads are just fine and they do make high resolution and high definition video downloads now. I also have no problem with MP3. I have not noticed any flaws but if there are flaws, then of course they need to be improved but I have total confidence that they will be improve.

I completely agree with the low quality of music content. Ever since the 1990s (and also I hate the 1950s) As for newer music, there is only a very small amount of songs from a very small amount of artists that I like.

What do I think about Film and Television?

I think that if they want sales, then they need to sell things!

A perfect example is game shows. I think everything now is recorded digitally but before that was available, cameras either had film, or video tape. And I really doubt game shows were recorded with film. When they made Video Tape available for the home, then people started recording things such as game shows. Around this time the TV stations preserved game shows and rebroadcast them on TV for more people to record themselves. And now people are making copies of the game shows that they recorded from TV and they are trading these copies with other collectors. ... who make even more backup copies and which are given to even MORE people. But do they ever sell original copies? I have never heard of this happening. A weekly game show produces dozens of episodes each year. A daily game show produces hundreds of episodes per year. It would take forever to get these episodes officially released. I am not sure how many people would actually purchase all episodes of an official release of a game show. ... But this sharing of game shows has been around years before peer to peer file sharing has been around.

Another example of frustration is a forgotten TV show. It could be a rare TV special from the 1970s that is not available to purchase. If the distributors want people to buy something instead of pirating, then they need to make these items available for purchase!

Or what about foreign films? If they are dubbed into English in USA, they are edited in other ways. Lolo The Penguin becomes "Scamper The Penguin", and now EVERY information available for this film calls it "Scamper The Penguin" There is supposed to be a U.K. or Australin English dub of this film which is more accurate. WHERE is this version?! How can I find it without running into "Scamper" ?! Or should I just learn Russian?! Other examples is "Milo And Otis", and Gatchaman. Gatchaman, NEVER aired uncut in English not even on "Adult Swim" (and Gatchaman really is not that violent. I have seen much more blood and guts on Family Guy) has only a few DVDs available, probably used, which costs $1,000.00 USD now.

Another example is SpongeBob SquarePants. I have recorded from television episodes of SpongeBob SquarePants. It started going downhill since season 3. I have not seen it since the middle of Season 4, and I have not seen any new episodes for years. I do not get Nick anymore, and I don't want to pay for subscription for the type of TV Programs on these days. I am very very about the scene they cut from "Just One Bite". So I prefer having my own copy uncut, instead of a TV edit. With SpongeBob I only like certain episodes. I do not want to purchase episodes I have not seen before. Perhaps SpongeBob is available for rent on Netflix and Hulu.

As for Software Pirating:

I do not think I have any illegal software nor have I shared any non-free software. I did not know it is possible to share non-free software. I did not think that the software could function.

I usually have free software and open source software. And whether I purchase software or whether the software is free &/or open source .... I usually do not upgrade until after a while. I do not have the time to upgrade and usually the upgrades do not function. And as for OSs, they usually add more and more bloatware. I upgrade so infrequently, I refuse to upgrade Windows until my next Windows upgrade is one that can be installed on an ARM processor.

I eventually upgrade to the "premium" or "professional" version of various "basic" software.

And so AmigaOS4.x is available as a Torrent? I take it as a compliment.

If they aren't fake, I am guessing people are trying to install it into an emulator to try it out first. or they just prefer the emulators. I am still not sure how a pirated bootlegged OS could function.

_________________
BoingBlogs Wiki (under construction)

AmigaOS = MorphOS = AROS = RISC OS

@fishy_fis

Hi,

Well you can buy it, but you will have to have a ppc accelerator card for your Amiga 1200 and today it would probably be cheaper to buy a new Amiga X1000 then try to find an accelerator. The only thing I can say is don't waste your money or time, I have one for my A1200 and put OS 4.1 on it. It is about as fast as a C64 on boot up, and also loading up programs. I also have the fastest PPC card which is the Blizzard 603e 230 MHz, and a 40 MHz 68040.

To tell you the truth I would rather use the 68040 40 MHz with OS 3.9, this way I can use all the old Amiga programs and have fast loading and fast operation.

The PPC accelerator or should I say decelerator, well any way if you are going to use this I would by a C64, it would be faster.

smerf

@Franko

Hi,

No wonder you don't want to move to the PC, you actually have to pay for the programs today since most are purchased on steam or origin.

BTW

Who cares if you pirate Amiga software, it has been dead 20 + years. As if Electronic Farts is going to hunt you down because you pirated marble madness or arctic fox (which BTW only runs with an A1000 on OS 1.0)

And it would really be sad to buy OS 4.0/1 since all it does is slow a good Amiga down.

BTW

Franko, u can b wrong, but u can b right.

smerf

@In_Correct

err,.... no offense guy, but you do realise that harddrives and flash media can also break dont you? (in reference to you saying you wouldnt buy music on something that can break). In that case not only do you lose 1 album or movie (as is the case with optical media), but you can lose an entire collection.
As for t.v. shows, you do understand that typically they make money from sponsors/advertising yes?

In regards to bloated OSes, err,.... why do you think an ARM version of exactly the same software would be less bloated? It's the same software. If you dont want bloat, dont install and/or remove features that you find unnecessary. Its not exactly rocket science.

@fishy_fis

I prefer the Solid State Hard Drives (including Memory Cards) because they are less likely to break. Anything with moving parts is more likely to break. I have had horrible luck with DVDs and DVD players, even while gently caring for them they still scratch and malfunction. Also I have backup copies of everything. The more backup copies the better. I am not worried about losing a downloaded music or film because I make sure I have a backup (especially if I have purchased it such as with iTunes. ) I mentioned too, that I want to collect an out of print DVD collection of a rare show. If I actually spend approximately $1,000.00 USD for that, I will make sure to back up the DVDs onto hard drive(s).

....

Quote:

As for t.v. shows, you do understand that typically they make money from sponsors/advertising yes?

Usually but not always with Cable TV. Either way, there is a monthly bill but I am not impressed with recent TV shows to pay a monthly bill. Instead, I watch the dozen terrestrial broadcast stations and their subchannels. Still I like to watch full, uncut episodes of a TV show not an edited verson. Or if a film is edited for time or content for television. (such as when TV Land broadcasted National Lampoon's Vacation) I ended up getting the official release. And I try to get official release of TV Show etc. if it is available. ... If TV Shows make it online such as Hulu and Netflix, couldn't they still make money from the sponsers and advertising? I thought some websites or services pause for commercials just like on TV.

....

I also like the ARM processor because it consumes less electricity and less heat. They play videos better. As for the OS. of course I remove unnecessary bloatware items. But the core of the OS is bloated compared to the AmigaOSs which has always been built with better performance.

_________________
BoingBlogs Wiki (under construction)

AmigaOS = MorphOS = AROS = RISC OS

@amigang

Quote:

Explain the music industry then? Before MP3s or music being digital there was a very health market in music because it was difficult to copy and share, now its easy to do so people who use to buy it dont anymore.

There is nothing to explain.

The world produces 20x as much music per year today as it did in the 1970s.

Do you not like music? Do you want ppl to stop making music? I don't see any problems that need to be explained.

_________________
Wanna try a wonderfull magical Amiga strategy game?
Total Chaos AGA

@In_Correct


As I mentioned already flash media can also break. Ive had an SSD simply pack it in with no warnings for example (and unlike traditional harddrives this proves nigh on impossible to recover sometimes). The same is true of cheaper flash based storage (usb sticks, etc.). Now this isnt to argue the pros and cons of media types, but simply to point out that it doesnt matter what format a person uses, theyre all succeptible to dying.


ARM plays video better? What drugs are you on, and mind sharing? :)
The vast majority of video decoding is done on something other than a CPU these days and in the instances its done on CPU ARM definately is pretty weak in comparison to other contemporary CPUs.

As for power consumption, that's another myth. Power per watt is pretty close to on par these days when it comes to low performance CPUs like ARM, and low power consumption x86 cpus. By the time Windows for ARM comes to the desktop x86 will have options that actually ARE on par.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6536/arm-vs-x86-the-real-showdown

@In_Correct

Quote:

never would I prefer a DVD or a CD or anything that can scratch or break

I take it from that comment you're very young...

Just imagine if you had been around in ye olden days (about 30 odd years ago) when there were only CDs or worse Vinyl & tape...

I take it you'd have never bought or listened to any music on any format just in case the got scratched, broke or snapped...

Glad I was one of the brave ones and lived life on the edge and took the risk of daring to buy CDs, Vinyl or tapes...

I assume you don't have windows in your your house to look out of just in case they get scratched or break, must be dark in there...


Game shows were actually "live" not even recorded way back in the 50's and towards the 60's when film became a cheap enough media to use on regular basis they began to record them on film, video tape only really came about even for TV studios around the very late 60's, that's the reason why a lot of old TV shows are lost forever as the film stock degraded sitting on shelves over time...

Can't say I've ever known anyone whom wanted to buy or has actually bought "Games Shows" on DVD to be honest, seems quite a "specialised/ niche" market to me. Reckon that might be the reason you don't see many DVD releases of that genre...

"Lolo/ Scamper The Penguin" eh... erm, I must be out of touch with kids programs but I've never heard of it/ him either as Lolo or Scamper... I must be getting old...

SpongeBob Squarepants... now I have heard of him/ it and have seen a picture of him somewhere here on the internet, can't really comment on the "quality" of his shows, scripts or acting ability as I've never seen em but I can say this he does look like a typical miggie user (think it's the big wide eyes and glaikit look)...

"Just One Bite"... wassat !!! and they cut a whole scene you say... I'd be mad too (I think, yup pretty sure I would), i'd write to my MP/ Senetor about that one and get him/ her/ it to sort it out, hold a public enquiry or something... things like that just shouldn't be allowed (whatever it is)...

"Illegal software", I don't have any of that meself either, all my pirate copies have never committed a crime or broken the law to the best of my knowledge nor are they here without a visa/ green card, so I guess they are all perfectly law abiding and aint done anything illegal in their short wee digital lives...

Odd... my head hurts now, think I'll go lie down in dark room for a wee while and try to make sense of what I've just replied to here... on second thoughts, think i'll just do the lying down bit and try not to think about it at all... now where's me meds (I need em badly after this one)...

_________________

@smerf

Quote:

smerf wrote: @Franko Hi, No wonder you don't want to move to the PC, you actually have to pay for the programs today since most are purchased on steam or origin. BTW Who cares if you pirate Amiga software, it has been dead 20 + years. As if Electronic Farts is going to hunt you down because you pirated marble madness or arctic fox (which BTW only runs with an A1000 on OS 1.0) And it would really be sad to buy OS 4.0/1 since all it does is slow a good Amiga down. BTW Franko, u can b wrong, but u can b right. smerf

Hi Smerf...

Long time no hear...

I thought you'd be dead by now you old bugger...

Kinda glad to find out you're not (I think)...

Anywhoo forget all that miggie crap, hows Mrs Smerf, keeping you in order I hope...

You still got a pancake stuck to everything and is that Guinea Pig you used to have in your avatar still dead or did he get better...

Hope this find you sober, you drunken old half Irish nutter...

Keep In touch (no one else does)...

Awe Ra Best...

Yer grumpy Scottish tee total, only swears on Sundays pal, Franko...

BTW: Did big bad Karlos finally ban you from the other other side and you'rehaving to slum it here now, bit of an upgrade though for an ex Commodore salesman...

_________________

Absolutely nothing stopping you from downloading OS 4.1 for SAM 440ep right off TPB, buying a bare bones SAM 440ep board and going to town. Updating to the latest revision is another story, as you must be registered to do so. For whoever said OS 4.x updates are at a cost, I likely bought one of the first SAM 440's off the line along with OS4 for 440ep. I haven't paid a thin dime for an update.

I misplaced my original, entirely legal copy of OS 4.1 for my SAM 440ep and did exactly that to get it back up and running. Said copy I paid retail for through Amigakit, registered in my own given name. I merely snagged another copy off a torrent site in order to re-install it in the meantime. I won't give apologies for that. I pay for what I use, and I paid for it once, and did not re-distribute the torrent file.

Updates would be your problem with OS 4. It's a good OS and well worth buying, just like MOS.

I have always found the piracy banter very circular. A guy here preaching about not pirating old, long gone games or commodore era roms or images is likely the same guy sitting on utorrent ripping off $400 worth of movies and music a month.

Regarding the guy stating that the music industry has gone down the toilet with the advent of digital tracks, I recommend you check the numbers. Music sales are higher than ever, just via different media than in the 70's. It's been proven 100 times over that people that readily admit to pirating music actually purchase MORE music than those that don't.

I just checked my itunes account. I've spent $497 this year so far on music. I'm willing to bet I pirated every one of those albums before I actually bought them.

Last edited by Duce on 11-Feb-2013 at 10:06 AM.

sidestepping...

I wonder what torrent site people nowdays use?

(I need a good site to get replacement images for broken DVDs and CDs, my 3 year old girl has a talent of ripping DVDs into pieces....
I'm amazed how tolerant our DVD player is btw... it seems you can feed it several DVDs and it does not break the player down .... scrathes can appear to DVDs, though.... )

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?