@BrianK

I guess it depends on what you define as NG Amiga. For me AROS is just as amiga as OS4 and runs on the exact things you've mentioned. What I was getting at though is that as far as development goes its not very appealing to develop core elements for something that will never have as much potential as the actual device the system is running on (ie. when relying on emulation rather than just utilizing it).

@fishy_fis
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I guess it depends on what you define as NG Amiga. For me AROS is just as amiga as OS4 and runs on the exact things you've mentioned. What I was getting at though is that as far as development goes its not very appealing to develop core elements for something that will never have as much potential as the actual device the system is running on (ie. when relying on emulation rather than just utilizing it).

Just hide the host (minimal linux?) from the user and make it a true AmigaOS experience (and let others run this through virtualization). I suspect some parts could even be rewritten and run natively on X86, didn't Amithlon do this with parts of the system? How do you compare potential, just thinking about what you get per mhz? I'd say thats irrelevant if it's just fast enough for a good user experience.

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@Troels

The problem I see is today we're tied to niche PowerPC motherboards where one can buy 2 Linux or 2 Win desktops for about the price of the PowerPC motherboard. That sort of performance and price disparity will always keep the Amiga niche.

I see and understand where fishy_fis is coming from. He wants the best performance possible. I get it. But, instead of a conversion to x86 (which is good choice) I'd like to see us go one step further and simply be neutral to the hardware. Sure we'll lose performance versus native everything. But, in today's processing world that's a fairly minimal impact.

I agree some parts could be rewritten to run natively on x86. And perhaps some even better. Something I think about is we're stuck with this single core PowerPC or 68K core. For example, is there potential to write a virtual processor that spreads processing across 4 cores? So while programs can't make use of multiple cores we at least get some advantage of having these multiple cores. Having a Dual core PowerPC is cool. Running the OS on 1 core is not.

...
As the Amiga is a hobby for me I've been considering the other OSes. I like the AROS/Icaros option. It's been a few years since I've played with it. Done some reading and it seems AROS is maturing nicely. However, MorphOS is looking attractive to me. (Which it seems shares some AROS stuff.) G5 support is coming. Used Mac G5 are $100-$200 range so maybe fun. Plus it updates my Mac G3.

@BrianK

"The problem I see is today we're tied to niche PowerPC motherboards where one can buy 2 Linux or 2 Win desktops for about the price of the PowerPC motherboard."

Not so.

But if you compare full systems, then yes, perhaps.

SAM 460 full system would cost 969eur for me. (our cuirrent mid range HW)
The cheapest Acer (with mobile caliber CPU) costs me 399.
With normal CPU it costs 499eur.

" For example, is there potential to write a virtual processor that spreads processing across 4 cores?"
So far I personally have not seen that done.

Every mainstream emulator that I have tried use only one core.

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//
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@KimmoK

Quote:

Not so. But if you compare full systems, then yes, perhaps. SAM 460 full system would cost 969eur for me. (our cuirrent mid range HW) The cheapest Acer (with mobile caliber CPU) costs me 399. With normal CPU it costs 499eur.

Fair enough 1 Amiga 460 System = 2 Linux systems. Or 1 Amiga motherboard = 1 Linux system.

For $400 I can get an Amiga 460 Motherboard with a 1.1Ghz single core PowerPC 460 processor

For $400 I can get an HP with a 3.2Ghz AMD Quadcore APU and 4GB DDR3 RAM, case, keyboard, mouse, and all drives. Which speaks to how being stuck to a custom motherboard will always stick us behind in processing power.

Quote:

" For example, is there potential to write a virtual processor that spreads processing across 4 cores?" So far I personally have not seen that done.

I haven't either. I'm sure keeping to one core is much easier to program. It's gotta be complicated to take a single core and try to coordinate spreading that same single core function across 4 cores.

Last edited by BrianK on 01-Mar-2013 at 04:47 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 01-Mar-2013 at 04:47 PM.

Some more use of laptop on longer summer vacation.

I copied some DVD from folks merriage that my mom wanted.
Photos i took i moved to laptop and some i put on facebook. I also showed all my stuff from facebook to my cousins and friends etc. Used it as a jukebox on nights while we play cards etc. Check flights, parties, cinema, putting adds, having contact with folks etc. It can be anti social in some situations but i have mine in my room and only use it when needed. It all depends on the user. Some needs it others doesnt.

@Franko

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Sure I've dabbled with OS 4.0 on my Blizzard PPC in an A1200 but simple fact is it was/ is rubbish...

Yes, I imagine that running OS4 on such a setup would be painful. You are used to the intensely user friendly responsiveness of Amiga OS3.x, and OS4 was really designed for faster processors and video chips.

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what difference would it make to OS4 if they were chosen over PPC ?

Many people think that using off the shelf (i.e. cheap) hardware would cause a lot more original Amiga OS users to come back. That is debateable...obviously! Personally, the decision was made long ago to go with PPC and at the time was the best decision that could be made. I thought that Hyperion was permitted legally to only port OS4.x to PPC processors (maybe someone like Number6 can recall the details of that?). But for whatever reason, PPC was chosen and that is where the resources to port AmigaOS were spent. As long as there are good PPC processors, I am very happy with the current state of the AmigaOS (i.e. OS4).


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this fascination a lot of you seem to have about wanting an "Amiga" notebook/ laptop...

Since thats the way mainstream computing has gone, many want Amiga to follow. Truly though Amiga was always meant to be a LEADER not a follower. It lead the multimedia revolution in home computing. It led the way in useful preemptive multitasking. It led the way in coherent synergy between hardware and software. It led the way in autoconfig ... oh excuse me ... plug N play. It led the way in datatype software expansion (perhaps still does?) THe Amiga of 1985 WAS the future of computing....sadly ignored by most historians.

I really enjoy OS4.1 and have been an Amiga owner and user since February of 1986. I am happy that buying a new Amiga with OS4 is still possible now in 2013. Thank youto all those people who worked so hard to make such a thing possble!

Scott

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@scabit

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I really enjoy OS4.1 and have been an Amiga owner and user since February of 1986. I am happy that buying a new Amiga with OS4 is still possible now in 2013. Thank youto all those people who worked so hard to make such a thing possble!

Same here... except a 1987 start date for me. And no expiration date on the horizon thanks to the hard-working people you reference.

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@scabit

Quote:

I thought that Hyperion was permitted legally to only port OS4.x to PPC processors (maybe someone like Number6 can recall the details of that?)

Whereas I am confident that what I've posted in 2 other current threads about the Mac port is accurate, most of the info about porting to PC leads one to draw conclusions based only on circumstantial evidence or a lot of coincidental statements.

cgutjahr might have an opinion on this, since he spent more time pouring over the existing documents than I.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 01-Mar-2013 at 07:03 PM.

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