@wawa

Yep, the big dilema, to modernise the Amiga requires breaking with the past, breaking with the past leaves you with little software, making it undesirable. This is one of many reasons Amiga-like systems will reain a niche.

@resle

I voted 'Yes' because it is closer to 'Yes' than 'No'.

But unfortunately it is not that simple. And not just because so many years have past and there's been a whole bunch of turmoil, splits, rifts, and schisms. (Yes, those last three all mean the same thing but we've had more than our fair share and I didn't want to use the same word thrice).

Even if you were able to travel back in time and talk to the fathers of the Amiga back at Hi-Toro and later at Commodore you would still get different opinions on what is an Amiga (or what it was going to become).

Ask Carl Sassenrath, Dave Haynie, and R.J. Mical today what they think makes an Amiga and you will get different views.

In the end, it is slightly different for each an every one of us, but I believe that if the question were asked in a different way there would be more Yes's, because deep down most us want it to be Yes. Because if you read between the lines of most responses you will see fear, fear of change, fear of loss of authenticity, fear of admitting they were wrong about something in the past, fear of yet another failed attempt to resurrect the beloved platform.

Other computing platforms may have a colourful story and a cult following, ours is the only one that has left behind severe emotional trauma.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

I think if anyone of you carefully goes back and reads the last 5 pages one by one - he/she will see even my attempt to categorize fall to pieces.

EVERY single forum member has an almost completely different opinion on what an Amiga is. That's amazing.

If I should attempt to find a common ground, I'd say that whatever it is said without directly mentioning one of the words OS4, Aros, Mos, 68K and PPC will be met with great suspect and accusations of "Emulation".

To this, add the surprisingly high count of people that seem to want a new amiga, but at the same time also want stuff like AGA, Paula, Copper, 25 years old software etc.

In the end, where public order is lost and anarchy reigns, the only possible answer is a transitory dictatorship. At this point Amiga needs someone to buy out all the small players - HW & SW - redefine the whole platform - and either:
1) Rewrite the OS from scratch on an existing Kernel (Linux? BSD?)
2) Port AmigaOS to a widespread platform (X86? Arm?)
3) Fuel AROS development
+
Deeply, deeply integrate UAE in the OS. The way Windows runs legacy stuff using WOW or MacOS does using Rosetta.

If only!

@agami

Excellent analysis. I concur 100% ...
And this, in particular, should be on the "About" section of any Amiga-related website:

Quote:

Other computing platforms may have a colourful story and a cult following, ours is the only one that has left behind severe emotional trauma.

Last edited by resle on 10-Mar-2013 at 03:40 AM.

@agami

Quote:

In the end, it is slightly different for each an every one of us, but I believe that if the question were asked in a different way there would be more Yes's, because deep down most us want it to be Yes. Because if you read between the lines of most responses you will see fear, fear of change, fear of loss of authenticity, fear of admitting they were wrong about something in the past, fear of yet another failed attempt to resurrect the beloved platform. Other computing platforms may have a colourful story and a cult following, ours is the only one that has left behind severe emotional trauma.

You've got a way of colourising things and exaggerating just a tad there...

"Fear", "Emotional Trauma" !!!

I know there are a few delicate wee souls in Amigaland whom don't live in the real world and whom you could probably apply those terms to but honestly if anyone here has been left emotionally scarred or live in fear over the Amiga, then seriously they'd be in dire need of psychiatric help...

It's a computer system, nothing more nothing less...

Yup most of us here have strong opinions on it but honestly useing words like "fear" and "emotional turmoil" to describe people and their views on the subject is a wee bit over the top and could indeed cause "stress", "upset" and "low self esteem" in some folk here... ironic eh...

_________________

@resle

Quote:

Deeply, deeply integrate UAE in the OS.

That is the only way you will keep the user base and attract
all the other uae-users. Lets hope euae+jit gets integrated
in the ng-amiga systems.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@resle

You means like once xerox was synonym of photocopies, as some reference ipads for all tablets? Of course it is, you call it whatever you lie, you feel it whatever the way you like... and most would connotate one with amiga if they knew what Amiga stood for, that is, the rest is being part of some cult or somehow stuck on the past.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@resle

Quote:

In the end, where public order is lost and anarchy reigns, the only possible answer is a transitory dictatorship. At this point Amiga needs someone to buy out all the small players - HW & SW - redefine the whole platform - and either:

has been already tried. with the obvoius effect of stagnation, shrinking user base, whatever you name. same would happen if an entity with contradicting plans had any saying. you think under the banner of cusa amiga and its current following would fluorish? i doubt.

amiga scene is divided, partly servilistic, partly anarchistic, very incoherent. the only way is to accept it and build upon that, to which keeping diversity, openness, and individual initiative is best answer.

Quote:

1) Rewrite the OS from scratch on an existing Kernel (Linux? BSD?) 2) Port AmigaOS to a widespread platform (X86? Arm?) 3) Fuel AROS development + Deeply, deeply integrate UAE in the OS. The way Windows runs legacy stuff using WOW or MacOS does using Rosetta.

again, sounds lika aros was the closest to provide all that..

Quote:

because there is almost nothing contemporary you could refer to in order to define amiga and its standards.

I see lots of things that would make Amiga without keeping useless and limiting stuff:

- the UI (also it should be improved)
- ARexx/Scripting
- Datatypes (again, improved)
- Light/fast
- Local
- Simple
- RamDisk

Why couldn't you have that in a modern OS ? (SMP/64bit/VM/processor agnostic/...). To ease porting, some API could be written, like OSX did with OS9->OSX transition

I personnaly don't care about OCS/ECS/AGA: UAE is perfectly fine for that.

Same way I don't care for DOpus/... The new explorer/desktop/wb (call it like you wish) should do the work, either by copying WB (where it's good), or in a different way if it can be done better (most likely).

Custom hardware ? Apple clearly shown there's no need to have custom hardware (and it's not possible anyway).

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Quote:

- the UI (also it should be improved)

once improved it woule likely not be any much different experience from other contemporary desktop solutions. i doubt any amiga ng team would be even able to come up with their original concepts and solutions. the manpower is hardly enough to port whichever existing ones over.

Quote:

- Datatypes (again, improved) - Light/fast - Local - Simple - RamDisk

hardly anything much unique or specificly superior here that would be an argument to choose some obscure "amiga" system with no applications above alternatives, especially if it would have to be developed from the scratch. sorry.

Last edited by wawa on 10-Mar-2013 at 11:27 PM.

lets not forget that Amiga Inc. officially announced that "AmigaNG" and the
"AmigaOne" series would be the next Amiga's and officially contracted Hyperion to make OS4.X and beyond.

These facts kinda make all the debates for the imitations null.

just saying

ps I don't consider Amiga branding and Amiga products to be the same thing, I have an Amiga branded mouse mat.

_________________

@Panthro

A Microsoft mouse mat simply can't be the same as Amiga mouse mat, true or false?

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Panthro

Amiga the only computers branded Amiga is 1000,500,1200,2000,3000,4000
Amiga DE developement PC.

And that's it, ever thing else is named some thing else, the Amiga might as well referee to classic OCS/AGA Amiga.

Every thing else is emulating it.

AmigaONE is new brand for PowerPC based AmigaOS4.x compatible computers, its a clean cut.

If El-box or Individual computers wont to make a new “Amiga“ then they need a licence from Amiga Inc, for the name, and a licence for the Kickstart from Hyperion.

Or else you end up some thing like the draco or the minimig , that is AmigaOS compatible computers made by some one else.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Mar-2013 at 12:01 AM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@resle

Directory tree must be the old & simple.
I must be able to use fixed priorities etc...

Optimally it should run also what SW I have for PPC.

etc...


(and the system running it must not be inferior to current PPC systems, that means no ARM (or MIPS) for me, ARM is not ready yet)

Last edited by KimmoK on 11-Mar-2013 at 08:36 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Quote:

hardly anything much unique or specificly superior here that would be an argument to choose some obscure "amiga" system with no applications above alternatives, especially if it would have to be developed from the scratch. sorry.

The features aren't certainly unique anymore. That said, I don't know a single OS providing all these features as part of the OS.

That's what makes the difference, maybe not superior,...

As for the UI, you can certainly say the Windows UI, OSX, Linux have different and recognizable UIs...

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Quote:

As for the UI, you can certainly say the Windows UI, OSX, Linux have different and recognizable UIs...

hardly. the difference lies in details. i have impression when it comes to differences more weight is put on recognizable design, lets say corporate identity, than the underlaying paradigms that have become common. its like cars looking more and more alike or different origin animals taking similar shapes under the same environmental circuumstances. amiga and its os might have been visionary once, but its concepts have found their way into the mainstream in the meantime.

Quote:

hardly. the difference lies in details.

Sure. And the devil is in the details... A new UI should take care of the small details that makes a UI. Which isn't really the case of older ones...

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/