As most will know by now I'm a hardcore "Classic" only type of guy...

Sure I've dabbled with OS 4.0 on my Blizzard PPC in an A1200 but simple fact is it was/ is rubbish...

Here's what I would like to ask from you "NG/ OS4" users out there as there are constantly threads here with you guys speculating and wishing for various things for your choice of Amiga...

What's with the never ending debates you have among yourselves about whether PPC, ARM or x86 is the way you would like to see your machines go. I ask this because I assume (not sure) that most PCs probably run on x86 or ARM processors, not sure as I don't really have an interest or knowledge of them but what difference would it make to OS4 if they were chosen over PPC ???

More bizarrely to me what's with the wish for Notebooks/ Laptops/ mobile devices to run OS4 on. That one I really can't quite fathom as surely there are hundreds of these things on the market that already do what you seem to be looking for them to do ???

Don't go off yer trollies that I'm having a dig at you, cos I'm not... I've been meaning to ask for quite some time the above questions simply in the hope that I can understand not so much why you use OS4 but more why you always seem to be debating which processor is best and this fascination a lot of you seem to have about wanting an "Amiga" notebook/ laptop...

I think the thing I don't get is that when I read your "wishes/ hopes" it comes across to to me that there is already countless hardware out there that does the things you want, the only difference is it seems to me is that they don't run OS4 !!!

Anyone care to enlighten and help me understand a bit more me with some decent/ proper answers on this...

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@Franko

Since everyone and their cat are buying pads/tablets these days, I guess OS4 crowd hopes
it will get the OS name back into the limelight..?

And if you are a OS4 user, im sure you would want to be able to use said OS everywhere.
A4000/1200 isnt that portable, and you would have trouble finding long enough extention chords

@Overflow

Quote:

Overflow wrote: @Franko Since everyone and their cat are buying pads/tablets these days, I guess OS4 crowd hopes it will get the OS name back into the limelight..? And if you are a OS4 user, im sure you would want to be able to use said OS everywhere. A4000/1200 isnt that portable, and you would have trouble finding long enough extention chords

Theres the thing I would NEVER want a laptop/ netbook or portable device to lug around with me and use a computer everywhere I go... I simple don't understand why people do feel the need to have a "computer" wherever they go... seems unsociable and pointless to me...

(Fair enough if you require it for work or business but for any other reason it just doesn't make sense)...

To me a computer is something you use at home and not something you NEED to carry about with you just to live your life... to me it's kinda sad that a lot of people live that way... not to mention pointless...

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@Franko

Obvious trolling, but still I will try and answer some of those questions.

I have never used 4.0 myself, but I do use 4.1 on a sam440 based machine and its not rubbish, very responsive and it does the tasks I throw at it.

I am not sure that there is much debate on the choice of cpu in the "os4.x camp" since all 4.x user have agreed to buy a PPC based mobo.

I don't know if any PCs run on arm, afaik they use x86, which is good for windows based machines.

As for the notebook thing, there are not really hundreds of them using a PPC, most are x86.

As for whishes, well we can all dream and hope for better hardware I guess.
Personally I would like a faster PPC based mobo that I can afford, so ofcourse I follow the threads and debates about it.

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@Overflow

Quote:

And if you are a OS4 user, im sure you would want to be able to use said OS everywhere.

Ofcourse :)

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@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote: @Franko Obvious trolling,

Typical brain dead reply and you are very, very wrong...

Quote:

but still I will try and answer some of those questions. I have never used 4.0 myself, but I do use 4.1 on a sam440 based machine and its not rubbish, very responsive and it does the tasks I throw at it. I am not sure that there is much debate on the choice of cpu in the "os4.x camp" since all 4.x user have agreed to buy a PPC based mobo. I don't know if any PCs run on arm, afaik they use x86, which is good for windows based machines. As for the notebook thing, there are not really hundreds of them using a PPC, most are x86.

Thank you for those answer though, like I say I don't have a clue about other processors or what machines use which...

The question wasn't about whether notebooks use PPCs (that I have no idea about), it was more why do people feel the need for a portable Amiga, that's something I genuinely don't understand...

Quote:

As for whishes, well we can all dream and hope for better hardware I guess. Personally I would like a faster PPC based mobo that I can afford, so ofcourse I follow the threads and debates about it.

Fair enough and the kind of answers I was looking for, shame you had to spoil it with the "trolling" remark though...

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@Franko

The thing about you not wanting a computer with you wherever you go is a fair enough argument. Ive seen to increasing degree people sit around coffetables with their eyes peeled on the mobile using twitter, facebook etc instead of having a good conversation.
Distrubing development I agree.

I travel alot due to work, so life becomes easier for me having a laptop/pad with me.
In some instances its pretty much required for me to get the wheels turning workwise.
I notice you commented on that aspect as a understandable reason, but I just wanted to re-itiate that point

Quote:

, it was more why do people feel the need for a portable Amiga

Seriously?

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@Franko

Quote:

Theres the thing I would NEVER want a laptop/ netbook or portable device to lug around with me and use a computer everywhere I go... I simple don't understand why people do feel the need to have a "computer" wherever they go... seems unsociable and pointless to me...

I have a linux laptop. (A gift of a second hand machine) whilst I prefer my static setup is was very useful to be able to take it on tour to France with last year, I could blog about my progress and work on video etc without waiting to come home. It would have been nice to have amiga equivalent, but not a deal breaker for me. But 3.9 under WinUAE certainly would not have cut the mustard. AmigaOS4 on alaptop would allow me use SketchBlock wherever I went, rather than GIMP , still a custom PPC laptop would cost the earth so I'm not hoping for it.

Last edited by broadblues on 27-Feb-2013 at 06:38 PM.

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote: Quote: , it was more why do people feel the need for a portable Amiga Seriously?

Yup seriously... I wouldn't have asked otherwise...

Now if you can't be bothered to make anything other than smart arse or silly comments, then please toddle off elsewhere... ta very much...

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@Franko

I like OS4, and all forms of "Amiga" really, but I have no desire to see it on tablets/mobile, as I've said in other posts - you cannot just slap a desktop OS on a touch-screen tablet and expect it to work well. There is a damn good reason why Apple went with iOS on the iPad, not OS X. AmigaOS as-is would be horrible on a touch-screen tablet/mobile.

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: @Franko I have a linux laptop. (A gift of a second hand machine) whilst I prefer my static setup is was very useful to be able to take it on tour to France with last year, I could blog about my progress and work on video etc without waiting to come home. It would have been nice to have amiga equivalent, but not a deal breaker for me. But 3.9 under WinUAE certainly would not have cut the mustard. AmigaOS4 on alaptop would allow me use SketchBlock wherever I went, rather than GIMP , still a custom PPC laptop would cost the earth so I'm not hoping for it.

I believe you are a musician by trade, so I guess for you having a portable device is kinda handy to keep folk/ fans updated when you travel on your gigs...

You say OS4 on a laptop would be handy for you as it's obvious you would rather use native OS4 software rather than having to use something like Gimp, that I can understand, so at least that gives me a reasonable insight into why you would find a portable device with OS4 as something quite useful.... cheers...

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@Franko

Quote:

I ask this because I assume (not sure) that most PCs probably run on x86 or ARM processors

There are more "pcs"* with Mips processors than with ARM cpus. Mobile devices is another story and ARM are the king here


*I assume that with "pc" do you mean traditional desktop computers

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@danwood

Quote:

danwood wrote: @Franko I like OS4, and all forms of "Amiga" really, but I have no desire to see it on tablets/mobile, as I've said in other posts - you cannot just slap a desktop OS on a touch-screen tablet and expect it to work well. There is a damn good reason why Apple went with iOS on the iPad, not OS X. AmigaOS as-is would be horrible on a touch-screen tablet/mobile.

You can get a desktop operating system and make it suitable for mobile devices. See Ubuntu Mobile and Windows 8

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No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy, @Franko

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: You can get a desktop operating system and make it suitable for mobile devices. See Ubuntu Mobile and Windows 8

I've not used Ubuntu Mobile but I can say quite safely that Windows 8 really isn't as suitable as MS would have you believe. Sure you can have a swishy front page, but as soon as you want to run anything non-Metro, you're going to suffer without a PC.

That said, I'm an OS4 user. I don't really want a netbook with OS4, Nor do I want a laptop. I'm perfectly happy where I am - I have three OS4 machines ready and waiting for when I need them. I use this Windows laptop or my Ubuntu EEE-PC 701 for laptoppy things (which is basically just browsing the web, usually). When I want to develop stuff on my miggy I normally sit down at a desk or table.

OS4 does what I need as it is now.

The thing to remember though is that everyone has different ideas of what they want, I can only speak for myself. Personally I'd rather have a cheap desktop than a cheap netbook, but others may have it different given the choice.

Edit:

@Franko
The argument about PPC/x86/ARM is a very old one. :) The problem is that people believe that switching the architecture is the solution, but I personally don't agree. The x86 argument centres around available hardware, but the lifecycle of a PC is so small it's not practical to use PC hardware, and if you use a bespoke platform, you're going to be paying more because there's less options involving SoCs. The ARM argument is stronger, but then you get a small difference in power and price (favourably for the ARM) but you have to port the OS and add emulation layers, and who's going to pay for that? PPC SoCs aren't much more expensive or slower (the PA6T was an exception, there are more suitable options available now which A-eon are looking into), and you don't have to worry about compatibility. The PA6T was chosen mostly because it was the fastest option available- I believe it is more powerful than any of ARM's offerings currently, so if we had gone ARM we wouldn't have had the option to make such a beast as the X1000. I could be wrong on that one, though.

Another problem is there are people who repeatedly claim that PPC is a dead end, when a cursory look at the embedded industry (which is where SoCs come from) shows that this is far from true.

That's how I see it, anyway. I'm sure many people will disagree. :)

Last edited by Spirantho on 27-Feb-2013 at 07:19 PM.

@Franko
Quote:

...but what difference would it make to OS4 if they were chosen over PPC ???

Hopefully not a lot to OS4.x itself but it could mean faster HW, lower prices for OS4 capable HW and thus more users. As a user I don't really care what's inside as long as it works, I do care for price and availability though as this is just a hobby to me.

Quote:

More bizarrely to me what's with the wish for Notebooks/ Laptops/ mobile devices to run OS4 on. That one I really can't quite fathom as surely there are hundreds of these things on the market that already do what you seem to be looking for them to do ???

Not one runs AmigaOS4 which is my OS of choice (now that I finally got my trusty A1 XE-G4 running again). I hate that I need to drag my windows laptop along with me to work every day, I'd much rather bring an AmigaOS4 capable system if it could do what I need (I think it can).

Quote:

I think the thing I don't get is that when I read your "wishes/ hopes" it comes across to to me that there is already countless hardware out there that does the things you want, the only difference is it seems to me is that they don't run OS4 !!!

Exactly, which makes them irrelevant to me.

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I would like to add some thoughtsto the mix.

The first is that OS4.x/MOS/AROS is more polished and allows users to run on new hardware - but there isn't a compelling argument to use it. I am not talking about the masses here - that would require mega marketing to even make a dent I am talking about people like me, who have an interest in Amiga and like quirky/cult/geeky things (I type emails and SMS messages with a morse code keyboard on my smartphone). If I can't use an Amiga in a basic office environment to use as a talking point then there isn't much hope. Don't get me started on moving it into specialised industries - a complete non starter.

Some may say well it's a hobbyist OS. But there are better - much better. And it isn't really a hobbyist OS because you cant play with the source. Linux is a hobbyist OS with the advantages of being used commercially and by computer novices and being run on many, many devices. The only reason you would run a modern Amiga is that you want to show people you can draw a picture or create a song with one hand tied behind your back.

I used to be in the WHY don't you produce OS4.x on x86 club - but really it doesn't matter. The development is small so the people running the project would still insist on custom or pre-defined hardware to maintain compatibility and the argument that there would be lots of people wanting to give it a go if they already had PC hardware I now think is a wrong ideal too - if people want to get off Windows or Mac OS, they could (and should) pop a distribution of Linux on there.

Portable Amiga next gen machines would be twice as costly as the X1000 offering and very much a waste of money for the user and the commercial entity who wants to involve themselves in this pursuit. The AROS camp were on the right track at at least with their Aspire One project.

Oh and not all PC's run on x86 - windows maybe (M$ server OS's run on all sorts), but a home computer running Linux or an older PPC based Apple is a PC - PC means personal computer so by that token my 68030 powered Amiga is a personal computer.

Granted nextgen Amigas do have slightly better web browsers, slightly better picture editing, slightly better word processing than my classic Amiga - but it is a way off the quality of a modern desktop Linux distro, Mac or dare I say it Windows based offering!

The race is lost guys. There is a thread on this very website asking what can be done to increase the user base. Give it up people - let it die with the scrap of dignity it has left.

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

Quote:

A1200 wrote: The race is lost guys. There is a thread on this very website asking what can be done to increase the user base. Give it up people - let it die with the scrap of dignity it has left.

As long as I enjoy using AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS, and as long as other people do too, and people still make hardware for it and develop the OS, then the race most definitively is not lost.

We're just in a different race now - and that's something I'm quite thankful for.

Race 1: Windows/Linux = Use it because you have to.
Race 2: AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS = Use it because you want to.

Don't let it die. Let it grow. Let it thrive. Who cares if there's only a few thousand using our OS - as long as we enjoy it, why stop using it?

@Spirantho

Good points well made. I love my classic Amiga experience. Rock and Roll. /me wacks on the deathbed vigil

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Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

For all my enjoyment of OS 4.1 on my Sam and A1 G4, it has to be said that there's nothing quite like tinkering with my towered A4000 or my A1200. Or my A600. Or my A500. Or my A1500. :)