Having 25€ motherboard hasn't have big influence to RiscOS userbase. MorphOS hasn't sell huge amounts with cheap Macs.

To atract new users Amiga should sell complete (new) computer and OS price of 250€ or less. That would be original target of Commodore Amiga, complete systems with economy price.

Depending software included Mhz should be at least 500mhz to get comfortable web surfing with Netsurf.

Best solution should be at least 800mhz system with optimiced Timperwolf and Open Office.

Last edited by utri007 on 03-Mar-2013 at 07:17 PM.
Last edited by utri007 on 03-Mar-2013 at 02:29 PM.

ok

@utri007

I've tried RiscOS on Raspberry early this year and although it responded rather well it was missing some basic functionality (for some reason it did not like the wireless desk-set I was using as well as not liking the WiFi USB receiver I threw at it) so I ended up doing a net-install of Debian to get a 'minimal' system running.

Would one have half a chance of success with Amiga OS on Raspberry then it should be lean and responsive as OS 3.1 with a basic tool-set enabling users to do their daily computing (browsing the internet, playing movies, listen to music and writing the occasional letter or two). At least, that's my believe.

_________________
Back home...

@utri007

Quote:

Best solution should be at least 800mhz system with optimiced Timperwolf and Open Office.

You can get one of those quite easily dumpster diving and you'll even end up with actually supported version of Firefox and OO.org ....

In order to attract new users, you need something that is not available on other platforms, just doing the same at a subpar level won't even be enough to keep existing users in the long run.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@utri007

I tried RiscOS on my Raspberry Pi and intend to use it more in the future to me the main things missing are current internet tools and active forms like the Amiga still has.

As NetSurf gets better all RiscOS will be missing is a cost effective e-mail solution as at the moment the OS does not come supplied with an e-mail client and there are no free ones with SSL and IMAP support so you cant even connect to a gmail account under RiscOS.

If someone was to create a series of getting started with RiscOS online tutorials I am sure RiscOS would take off quite well on the Raspberry Pi as it feels far more responsive than Linux on the Raspberry Pi and would make a good low cost desktop OS for people with and interest in learning to program as I remember learning to Program at School using BBC basic and its both powerful and easy to learn.

I also thing AROS could work just as well as RiscOS on the Raspberry Pi but again it would take quite a bit of polishing. It already has the internet Programs that are missing from RiscOS and should be able to run quite well on the limited hardware on offer from the Raspberry Pi.

_________________
Sam440ep 667mhz, 512MB, 120GB 2.5" HD, OS4.1FE
WinUae 3.0.0, OS 3.9, BB3, Catweasel MkIV
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 040/40 (BlizzardPPC 060/200 with SCSI removed at present), mediatorSX pci, Voodoo3, PCI network card os 3.9BB2
4MB Minimig with ARM addon boar

@All

This was originally meant to be answer to here :

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37329&forum=2

But I accidentally press new thread button

@utri007

Quote:

utri007 wrote: @All This was originally meant to be answer to here : http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37329&forum=2 But I accidentally press new thread button

So you also managed to "accidentally" type in a "New Thread Title" too...

You're not in the military by any chance and in charge of those keys that are required to access the nuclear missile launch codes and buttons are you...

NOTE TO SELF: Never allow "utri007" near any buttons or switches, especially big red ones...

_________________

@Franko

Hehe :) I wrote it and tried to post, noticed missing title and decided what a heck :D

Wii has proven that it is not all about software, but also hardware :)

Living room PCs hasn't made big succee yet. That could be next big thing and it would be hardware, not a cpu/gpu or anything, I would be how to hadle living room PC. Special remotecontroller could be a thing, small mouse integrated to small keyboard. Something like mobilephone keyboard?

Last edited by utri007 on 03-Mar-2013 at 08:06 PM.

@utri007

https://www.riscosopen.org/news/articles/2012/12/04/raspberry-pi-interest-breaks-site-traffic-records

Web hits seem to suggest the Pi broke all interest records for the last decade, do you have actual usage numbers to prove the Pi has not increased user base?

@utri007

Quote:

Living room PCs hasn't made big succee yet.

...And it might not even become one. The functionality that most people think such systems should have, have already been added to games consoles, and even modern TV sets. Why would anyone want "yet another box", or rather, "what should it be able to do to be attractive, that TV-set and modern games consoles don't already do?"

There have been many people saying that AmigaOS should be ported to ARM, for many years now. If it had, we would have cheap and fairly powerful computers in abundance for running AmigaOS 4 on.

Let's hope that the work being done on the OS to bring support for multiple processor cores and 64-bit support will also herald a new ARMv8 version, which will probably be common by the time this programming work is ready.

@utri007

You're advocating the same policy that's been in operation for a decade or more, so why do you expect a different result now?

You're repeating the old idea that charging less doesn't attract more people. It's not true. Even some vocal supporters like Hondo don't own OS4 machines, and what does that say about price? You could argue that less people paying more works out the same, but it's not just the loss of revenue but the loss of developers writing software. An OS without software is nothing.

Another is that you need niche hardware to keep people on the platform, ie. port to Raspberry Pi and everyone will end up using Linux. I've said this before, but why is there such a lack of faith in people who evangelise the platform so strongly? They suggest that the only reason people would continue to boot the OS is if you corner them into a blind alley. Do they believe that or were they simply justifying a policy they couldn't change?

Those strategies haven't worked. Instead of offering more functionality to keep people booting the OS, the money has dried up and the OS has fallen further behind. We have the situation where Hyperion are unable even to write drivers for the niche hardware you're advocating. The situation is already desperate so if there's any possibility for a change left, it must be taken.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 14-Mar-2013 at 11:42 AM.
Last edited by clebin on 14-Mar-2013 at 11:39 AM.
Last edited by clebin on 14-Mar-2013 at 11:38 AM.

@clebin

I, as well, have never understood Hyperion's "dual boot fear syndrome". A decade ago there was another saying: Once OS4.x goes to x86 it will get swallowed by XP on a dual boot system (from a user perspective). As if, I will stop being an amigan because I will setup several operating systems on my machine... Now, the same syndrome still exists on some vocal Os4 supporters when the migration to another hardware architecture is mentioned. Luckily Aeon and Acube do not share the same vision, trying to support as many operating systems as possible on their machines.

@utri007

I never thought that I would have been able to try RiscOS without investing a great deal of money (similar to a classic Amiga thingy). Now, I 've spent 100 euros and bought a new RPi plus some peripherals and I am ready to give it a go (hadn't found the time to assemble them yet though). If I 'll like it, I will stay on the platform and I will support it (financially speaking, buying software etc), though I will still swap SDs with XBMC or some other random linux distro to feeble with. So, in the long term, who lost a user and who gained a (potential) one?

_________________

@clebin and @utri007

I am of the opinion that if you want an Amiga link OS to run on ARM devices including the Raspberry Pi AROS is the way to go AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS should stay on PPC and stay binary compatible with existing software already running on the platforms.

I myself use 68k Amiga's (A1200 and Minimig), a PPC Amiga (sam440ep) and an x86 netbook dual booting AROS and Windows.

I have no desire to attempt to replace all of the excellent systems I use with one system it all about using the right tool for the job.

I don't see the need to port AmigaOS4 and MorphOS to ARM or x86 I don't think it would bring many new user and I think the development work would be better spent improving the both of the above on the existing hardware it already runs on.

_________________
Sam440ep 667mhz, 512MB, 120GB 2.5" HD, OS4.1FE
WinUae 3.0.0, OS 3.9, BB3, Catweasel MkIV
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 040/40 (BlizzardPPC 060/200 with SCSI removed at present), mediatorSX pci, Voodoo3, PCI network card os 3.9BB2
4MB Minimig with ARM addon boar

@Dwyloc
Quote:

I don't see the need to port AmigaOS4 and MorphOS to ARM or x86 I don't think it would bring many new user and I think the development work would be better spent improving the both of the above on the existing hardware it already runs on.

i actually must agree with it.

@Hattig

Quote:

There have been many people saying that AmigaOS should be ported to ARM, for many years now. If it had, we would have cheap and fairly powerful computers in abundance for running AmigaOS 4 on.

Would be MUCH easier to finish the Mac Mini port. Or port "from scratch" to some other PPC Mac hardware.

There are lots of second hand units on the market, and I don't think many users would prefer a device like Raspberry Pi over Mac Mini (forgetting porting effort)

Sure, I have one (rpi) connected via my KVM switch, so it's not too different to use from any other computer connected to the same switch, but I still consider it as an electronics kit, rather than a computer.

@Cool_amigaN

The dual boot fear syndrome does hold some validity, but not really in Hyperon's case. If Amiga OS was ready to compete as a mainstream OS, and the userbase they were going after extended outside of regular Amiga users, then not being the main OS on a system could be an issue. But neither of those situations were really true, even 10+ years ago. The main reason I feel they went PPC and niche hardware was simply business related.

They could only sell Amiga OS for so much -- asking $500 for OS4 would seem a bit insane, even by diehard standards. But a company could make $500 profit by bundling it with niche hardware, even underpowered hardware ... especially if it uses non-mainstream parts or a somewhat obscure CPU.

No current Amiga flavored OS can compete (or is even close) to current desktop operating systems. They are simply too far behind. I stated my opinion in the other thread here recently about increasing the user base, but I think going ARM is the way to go ... for MorphOS, Hyperion and AROS. But I think AROS may be the only one to ever get there.

And as mentioned, it's all about software and gaining developers for a platform. And price matters... a lot. If AOS 4 was released on a $50 ARM stick, who can argue it wouldn't have a ton more users? I think one mistake people make here is assuming Amiga systems nowadays need to be full desktops -- to gain users, the 'device/min. systems' market is really where to look. Many former Amiga users wouldn't hesitate to spend $50 or so for a little Amiga-ish device to play around with, hook up to their TV, or set up as a system in a spare room. But very few would be willing to spend $1000 (or even several hundred) to use any Amiga OS as their desktop system.

I am going to twist the topic for a little (I opened a new topic on the "Free To All" section but since it does not even appear on front page) I am posting this here as well:

Lets twist the topic a little.

I have ordered a RikoMagick Mini Android PC MK802 IIIs

http://liliputing.com/2013/01/mk802-iiis-android-mini-pc-is-a-big-upgrade-in-some-ways-less-so-in-others.html

However it arrive dead on arrival and the shop where I bought it is replacing it to me.

I am thinking if I should cancel this order and go with a Raspberry Pi instead.

I want this to watch movies on the living room (HD) and have wifi internet enable (with a suitable dongle).

I know it can runs RiscOS and AROS and this is a big advantage to me!

So which would be your choice?

Do you have any experience with one of those machines? What is the feedback?

_________________
Peg1, Peg2, Efika,
Amiga 500, Amiga 1230,
Amiga 4000PPC,
Sam 440EP, AmigaOne XE,
MacMini PPC, PowerMac G4, G5

@Morphix

I don't own either, so can't comment on which is better. I was about to order the Pi several months ago, but they were out of stock at the time. And I figured I might as well wait until AROS is working properly on it, ideally with some sort of UAE support.

But if you want to run AROS, I'd think Pi would be the choice -- but I don't know how important that is to you. Nor do I know how well AROS even currently works on the Pi. Yet if you want to run UAE, the android stick may be better, due to what I expect are better specs.

Or just get the Pi now for $40, and get the OUYA in a couple of weeks for $100 -- two toys to play with.

Last edited by Nameless on 14-Mar-2013 at 06:58 PM.

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

I, as well, have never understood Hyperion's "dual boot fear syndrome". A decade ago there was another saying: Once OS4.x goes to x86 it will get swallowed by XP on a dual boot system (from a user perspective). As if, I will stop being an amigan because I will setup several operating systems on my machine... Now, the same syndrome still exists on some vocal Os4 supporters when the migration to another hardware architecture is mentioned. Luckily Aeon and Acube do not share the same vision, trying to support as many operating systems as possible on their machines.

Well, as much as I do remember it from the past it wasnt against dual booting since from day one
AmigaOnes used to come with Linux. Argument against x86 was inability to support many motherboard and chipsets cornering again AmigaOS to some soon to be outdated hardware as well as it was against Amithlon and emulation only setups in fear no new software will be developed, just old emulated.
As well as argument was "just use AROS".

On my behalf, x86 transition is not a magic wand: you would need some good PPC JIT like Apple Rosetta stone, no one beside Apple was able to pull good and fast enough (and even with that PPC software worked faster on G5 then emulated on newer Intels). Or in example of AROS even nice virtual boxing and x86 nativity doesn instantly grant userbase and development, just ability for more people to test it.

Sarcasm and irony is in AmigaOS being left without much native software anyway, opensource ports are just ports due to shrinking market anyway.

ARM hardware seems to at least be outdating in slower pace and is cheaper, but powerful enough. Being used in both tablets and smartphones ARM is growing market much faster then x86: Having Android for ARM first was great choice that has swiftly won the market and even made M$ to make an ARM port, decades after original Windows NT supported MIPS and PPC and Windows being x86 only.

So in my eyes, with some modern handheld scalability ARM is win win, if and when possible path for MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.

_________________
OS 3.x AROS and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionalism. Learn it harder way!
SinclairQL and WII U lover :D
YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja