@tommysammy

Quote:

Don`t listen to wawa . He is a troll master.

thanks for all esteem. i dont really feel worthy..

@resle

the most "complete" 3.1. is "Amikit for real Amigas" (Link above)

MorphOS and AmigaOS certainly have some features that cannot be easily patched on 3.1. and there is some software that is not available for 68k at the moment (f.e. the newest port of OWB is only for MorphOS at the moment). So it depends what you want to do with it.

@Zylesea

Quote:

The "yes" is okay for "hell of an improvement" but not for "exclusive". MorphOS has hardware accelaration since V2.0 (was called Layers 3D then, now enhanced display). It's nice, but actually not a killer feature though.

The comparison was between AmigaOS 3.x and 4.x at that point so the "yes" is that in terms of amigaos it;s a version 4.1 and up feature.

Clearly Morphos has their own version as do linux OSX Windoze and most operating systems running on modern hardware.

I'm not sure about Morphos (but I'd assume it has similar functions) but on AmigaOS 4.1 the underlying composite functions allow alot more than a fancier look workbench, they allow some powerful transformation and blending of bitmaps etc etc, which have yet to be really used to their full capacity IMHO. I've made some initial experiments into using them for real time preview of rotation tools etc. in SketchBlock.

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@wawa

Quote:

Quote: Don`t listen to wawa . He is a troll master. thanks for all esteem. i dont really feel worthy..

You are too modest ...

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@all

sorry for being a little harsh, been late yesterday. will try to tone down myself ;)

but the point remains: 3.5 and 3.9 updates with all the boingbangs and patches are but cosmetic improvements to 3.x imho.

as i said i dont know about morphos from own experience, but the first time i fired up os4 it felt very much the same, a cosmetic release and not that well done, unfortunatelly. this might be excused with, that the post 3.1 improvements had to be reinvented and reintroduced due to no acces to the later codebase and with the architecture migration. though i remember the feeling of disappointment. my concurring 68k system felt much more polished and reliable at that time and i ended up booting os4 only ocassionaly to check out some os4 exclusive app or for a raw power, as long as it remained stable.

now, i do not doubt os4 has improved since ive used it last time, but the features mentioned here sound again very much as cosmetic issues.
apparently one of the main key features of an os would be prominently the full hardware support on platforms sold with it (we had it in commodore amiga times).
then people might want low level improvements like support for more memory, more interfaces, parallel cores, hardware3d, memory protection and all those things os4 users are usually begging for. well, there seem to be some achivements in those fields and some work underway, but doesnt seem particularly advanced, especially in comparison with what an expanded amiga 68k system would offer except for said raw computing power. which can be pretty much surpassed with a fast amithlon or uae solution, no doubt.

and last but not least people want to see some software that would excuse an expense of an orthodox os. best bundled with it for starters. again i ll quote own os4 users demands, like up to date office suite (not available), web browser (none complete, unfinished firefox port and an outdated odyssey version from morphos), beyond that little to none unique games (with few positive exceptions like amiboing or saimo creations, others mostly quick linux ports)

so altogether, os4 today may be acceptable as a hobby to tinker with for those interested. just as much as aros and probably even morphos is, but hardly an improvement in everyday usability beyond the genuine amiga, if we take the course of time and demands of contemporary computing into account especially.

Last edited by wawa on 26-May-2013 at 01:07 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: thanks for all esteem. i dont really feel worthy..

You are to be envied....

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@broadblues

Quote:

You are too modest ...

he is stalking me with that kind of comments across forums. i really dont think im so much skilled at what what you think i do.

@wawa

You are trolling in so much forums, most people are pissed of from you.
Stopp trolling and you don`t hear something from me
That`s all

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@wawa

Quote:

so altogether, os4 today may be acceptable as a hobby to tinker with for those interested

Everyone I speak with refers to it (meaning the operating system) as a hobby, nothing more.
I don't know of anyone who would consider it more than that.

#6

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@wawa

What have you been drinking, up leat last night?

There is no broken USB stack, it work perfect on Sam440, Pegasus II, Sam460, AmigaONE-XE, MicroAmigaONE, the only computer it does not work on is AmigaONE-SE.

So you are trolling, or your ignorement as hell.
For a long time there was bug in CrossDOS this was present in AmigaOS3.x too, so dont wave your flags too high, today there is no problems whit CrossDOS.

I also like point out a few features I did not say anything about.

The PTP protocol, used for transferring pictures from Camera.
We also have MassStorage support, I don't know if this supported on AmigaOS3.x.

Quote:

* Long filename support as part of DOS and filesystems. > i thought we had that 4 years, but then these were patches, right? so whats os4 if not a collection of them?

It came whit FastFilesystem 7 in 2004, so this almost 10 years old now, the (new) filesystem is not a patch I can tell you that, wow how ignorant are you?

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* File notification, applications can monitor changes to files. >boring, what is that for?

If the user replaces a file, the application will know about the change and take action, for example reload the configuration file, there might be many application for it, its way faster then opening the file and check if some thing has changed by creating a hash or some thing like that.

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* 64bit filesystems support larger then 4Gbytes files. >same as before above.

Wrong the other one was the length of filename, this fix allows you to have large ISO files on your partitions, lets say you have a Linux DVD iso you wont to burn, or some thing like that you need to be able to store on your disk.

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never cared.

Then way do you comment if don't care and don't have clue?

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* Has JIT compiler to run 680x0 software. > but only for system conform software so far.

Yes, but you do you rally want to run a full emulator, to run your software or do you think its better to alow the programs to talk whit other programs that runs on computer?
If you need more the 680x0 to PowerPC JIT for UAE is being worked on and will alow you to do Just that.

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* There is a WarpEMU you can install, for WarpOS support. >not working on most current os4 platforms. apparently mos scores better. wouldnt bother anyway.

I agree, but it fun to run some old WarpUP demos, the games are so old and broken I care less, you also find that half of the games has a AmigaOS4 native version, so it makes it even less interesting.

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* TrueType fonts. >we had that raliably working on 68k with afa_os for years, now with aros.

We where not compearing whit AROS, we where comparing whit AmigaOS3.x remember, AROS 680x0 is too slow for real hardware its a joke, and also incompatible whit many 680x0 games.

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* Newer Reaction >almost abandoned even on os4, not even hyperions own timberwolf gets compiled against it. remind me what it was it is. must be a really rubbish gui system.

So ignorant you are, don't you know anything, Timberwolf has its own GUI systems on all operating systems, its the same one infract. It a nice GUI system that comes whit the OS that does not require the user to download additional classes or widgets.

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* Newer MUI > a little in comparison with os3.x.

Does it matter se subject of this tread, its not mine is better then yours, its what is different between OS3.x vs OS4.x, it has nothing to do whats on MorphOS or AROS.

The difference is that MUI OWB can't be back ported to classic AmigaOS3.x whit out using SDL OWB, they are constantly complains about lack of modern web browser on AmigaOS3.x

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* Lots of drivers for network and sound cards. >the number might impress one, if only they wernt usually available without dma support as it seems. may not count much on soundcards, but i/o will suffer.

Again your ignorant and wrong.

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* No patches and hacks to get 64bit partition support. have been mentioned earlier.

No I was taking about files larger then 4Gbytes now I'm taking about supporting partitions larger then 4Gbytes to store the files on, you can't put files on your disk if you don't first support the disk size, are you suing your disk from 1980's or have you upgraded?

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* Virtualized memory, less memory fragmentation. > seems cause more problems with the memory than on 68k 3.x. none knowe what amount of mem is available on os4 even though some amount is assumed, people run out of mem where 500mb is apparently still free, stuff like that. nightmare if that was the case on my amiga.

Well it work on AmigaOS4, you know the approximant free size, I have no issue whit it, I'm a user, your not.

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* Swap support, even the OS can use disk if you run out memory, so you OS does not crash. > oh, despite you can have all the physical ram for addressable memory space on amiga, mos or os4, os4 users are encouraged to turn it off for a danger of instability, or so i ve heard?

Long before AmigaOS4 slows down, AmigaOS3 has crashed, because it can't get memory for windows, screen, bitmaps and font and other thing being it needs to work.

Is it better that you miss all your data or, that you can close a few applications and get back a nice and responsive OS?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 01:32 PM.

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@all
We know all the problems from OS4.1
We know all the limitation from OS4.1
We know that the X1000 is expensive
We know what we need to improve for the AmigaOS4.1
We have only a small team with hobby developer and hobby betatester.
Accept it, it is only a hobby and not more

I love my hobby and my X1000

Last edited by tommysammy on 26-May-2013 at 01:27 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

"We where not compearing whit AROS, we where comparing whit AmigaOS3.x remember, AROS 680x0 is too slow for real hardware its a joke, and also incompatible whit many 680x0 games."

Sorry cool down a little too...

I am mostly busy with the "joke" so i can tell you a little (and more) about it...

I have updated my compatibility page, now more than 1000 games working out of the box.

http://www.aros-platform.de/html/compatibility.html

WHDLoad works and can be used with original ROMs

Lots of applications working too including Real3D, Cinema4D, TVPaint, AmigaWriter, Final Writer and many more. You compare PPC and 68k but only use unexpanded A500/1200 as reference? I would say that wrong too because hardware level on 68k is rising too with faster processors and more RAM. Your reactions now are overdone too.

Resle wanted to know what he can do on 68k and what 4.X additional offers. When possible he should visit someone using AmigaOS or visiting a event where it is shown.

"Long before AmigaOS4 slows down, AmigaOS3 has crashed, because it can't get memory for windows, screen, bitmaps and font and other thing being it needs to work"

What are you talking about?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-May-2013 at 01:35 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-May-2013 at 01:34 PM.

@OlafS25

The lack of swap support in AmigaOS3.x, not AROS, I don't know anything about AROS.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 01:53 PM.

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Quote:

so altogether, os4 today may be acceptable as a hobby to tinker with for those interested

This sound weird? May be acceptable? Thanks your acceptance, or has you changed you mind? If so what then?

@NutsAboutAmiga

You mean virtual memory? I do not exactly know if AROS 68k implements such a feature, on the other hand I use 1 GByte RAM for it and AROS X86 supports up to 4 GB RAM. So that is not a "real" problem.

"I don't know anything about AROS."

Then why are you bashing it or calling it "joke"?

Resle wanted to know what 4.X offers above 3.X, people explained it and now he should try to get a chance to take a look at it somewhere and decide if he wants it.

But without attacking other choices please because this does not make a good impression either.

@OlafS25

virtual memory support and swap memory is not the same thing.

virtual memory support, allows you to take small free block of memory and stack them into one big one, this nice if you have fragmented memory, low end systems like the Amiga1200, Amiga4000 and systems like that where you do not have lots of RAM, and you need every drop.

Swap memory is a partition on your disk, or file, to keep blocks of memory you don't have space for in your physical RAM DDR memory modules, the lest active memory will be put in SWAP file or SWAP partition.

Virtual memory support is what is organizing the memory.
Swap memory is just a extra storage space.

Swap memory enable you to use more memory then you have, I think of it as the last resort.

But its only really interesting as long as you have less physical memory then what the OS support.
1Gb DDR, ot 512mb RAM, if you have 2Gbytes or 4Gbytes of DDR RAM, then swap will never be used.

So Virtual memory support useful all the time, Swap only useful if you have less then 4Gbytes.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 02:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 02:51 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Ok thanks I understand. I do not know if this is supported but at least it is not necessary on 68k or X86 because there is plenty of RAM available. That might be different on Raspberry but even Raspberry has now 512 MB. It is a feature only needed if RAM is very limited.

@OlafS25

Quote:

Then why are you bashing it or calling it "joke"?

You most take it as response to wava, I might got a bit hot headed, I do not wont argue if its joke or not, I don't see the how its useable on A1200/020, but it might be where useable on a over clocked 060 I don't know I don't have the hardware, only seen a few YouTube videos, so don't take my word for it, it might be a lot better when some one has optimized it, and maybe some one is working on it?

I have kind of moved on, don't look back on 680x0 as some thing for the future, you might disagree, I don't know, as long as people enjoy what they like they then it should be respected.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 03:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-May-2013 at 02:53 PM.

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@resle

I use OS3.x (WinUAE) regularly and my main regrets are:

1) Outdated technology
No advanced memory functions (even Windows 3.1 has virtual memory/swap)
No native support for big HD partitions and files
No advanced 2D accelleration effects (like compositing on OS4)
Limited 3D support (even in comparison to OS4!)

2) Lack of modern applications
No support for editing of MS Office documents
No video player with useable GUI
No modern webbrowser (NetSurf for OS3 is rather joke )

I think point 2 (applications) is far more important, even outdated OS3 would be sufficient for most task with appropriate software support. And here I come to point 3:

3) Best developers left OS3 for NG
NetSurf, OWB, Blender, AmiCygnix, GemRB, emulators... compare these to the best OS3 titles of recent time.

@NutsAboutAmiga

It is certainly not usable on a plain A1200 with 68020 and 2 MB RAM (and will not be in near future). I cannot remember anyone claiming it. But it will play a important part for new FPGA based hardware. And yes I see 68k as future (because of different reasons)