@Spirantho

Quote:

I have a strong suspicion that the production of Acube machines is on a knife-edge anyway at the moment. I'd guess that with Mac support, about 80% of Sam purchasers would have bought a Mac instead,

Funny, I wanted to say axactly the same number. Totally agree. I dont believe some people dont understand such obvious thing
Different strategy, different routes...

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Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@fairlanefastback

The last new batches of Sam440ep-flex 733mhz and two models of Sam460ex sold out very quickly.
I expect demand to increase when Warp3d for Radeon HD cards is done.


Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Spirantho [quote] Right, so whats the path to increasing the user base then is the question. If an owner of a broken original AmigaOne is balking at Acube hardware in 2013 its not the best of signs. Granted PR is one individual but I wonder if the buying public for Acube hardware is pretty much saturated at this point. In the end realistically PR is better off switching to MorphOS or AROS.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@number6

Quote:

(1)the talk about Hyperion is irrelevant since the project was 3rd party.

PR wants to know why Hyperion won't do this at this point in 2013.

Quote:

(2)both SAM and the Mac loader were presented simultaneously to Bill McEwen. I've linked to the text of the conversation before. (3)Bill had rejected an earlier Mac port proposal from Adam (4)Bill was horrified to hear of the new effort

What does Bill have to do with Hyperion in 2013?

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Spirantho

Quote:

I have a strong suspicion that the production of Acube machines is on a knife-edge anyway at the moment. I'd guess that with Mac support, about 80% of Sam purchasers would have bought a Mac instead, as these are the low-end users who just want "an os4 machine". I'd say that adding Moana support would have very little effect on the X1000 buyers, and a moderate effect on the 460. But what this means is that the entire low-end (i.e. the Sams) would be obliterated. Sure, we'd still have the X1000, but for many of us we still want low-end machines too, and we don't want to be limited to old Macintoshes. For instance, I develop the Catweasel drivers on my Sam at the moment - I couldn't do that on a Mac Mini (no expansion). We're in a very small market, even the slightest drop in demand can push the supplier over the edge.

unfortunatelly not only sams but also x1k would be affected by mac port. however if you like being forced to buy expensive hardware, rather that being given options, im fine with it. others seem not. thats all.

Last edited by wawa on 24-Feb-2013 at 04:34 PM.

@wawa

ONLY second hand hw is not an option. There would be no SAMs, X1000 with used MACs support...

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

PR wants to know why Hyperion won't do this at this point in 2013.

It has been stated that it's for a similar reason expressed eons ago about PC. Fear of both piracy and the thought that someone would just use the principal OS for the machine instead of the AmigaOS port, thereby losing even more interest.

Note: ^ that's not my conclusion, but you seem to want the company's reasoning.


Quote:

What does Bill have to do with Hyperion in 2013?

It has been stated that Hyperion does have free choice as to what to do as a result of the settlement.

Note: ^ I have reason to not believe that one either.

#6

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@Spirantho

Quote:

If Hyperion supported the Mac, they'd destroy the few companies making Amiga hardware (A-Cube, A-Eon, etc.).

The Mac port which was in the works a few years ago was allegedly mostly ACube's doing. So much for your theory that ACube trembles in fear every time the possibility of supporting Apple computers comes up.

And, btw.: what you're saying is basically that the OS4 distributor forces OS4 fans to spend $1000 on a SAM that is slower than a six year old 2nd hand Mac for $200, or $3000 on a X1000 which is as 'fast' as said $200 Mac - just because he wants to keep ACube und A-EON alive? That doesn't make any sense. Ben Hermans might be a lot of things, but he's certainly not a charity.

I don't know why they're not supporting Macs - all I know is that any excuse they're going to give you is just random crap made up on the spot. "not possible", "people want new hardware", "it's a plattform, not just an OS"? Bullshit - if Ben Hermans insists on ports to obscure PPC hardware (which is costing him OS4 sales), he must have very good financial or legal reasons to do so, period.

Last edited by cgutjahr on 24-Feb-2013 at 04:58 PM.
Last edited by cgutjahr on 24-Feb-2013 at 04:50 PM.

@mr2

Quote:

@wawa ONLY second hand hw is not an option. There would be no SAMs, X1000 with used MACs support...

wouldnt it be better anyway? the investments could be used in software field instead of supporting expensive third party hw. or trying to develop anyway outdated systems.i have an impression most os 4 fans are content and want just that: being doomed to obscurity, btw exactly like sticking to 68 k today, only we dont claimour hardware is modern and its much cheaper too.

Last edited by wawa on 24-Feb-2013 at 05:01 PM.

@cgutjahr

Quote:

The Mac port which was in the works a few years was allegedly mostly ACube's doing. So much for your theory that ACube trembles in fear every time the possibility of supporting Apple computers comes up.

Exactly.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/ceoamigaacubediscussioneu8.png

could not BE more clear. The loader/port was proposed on behalf OF Acube by Nicola Morocutti.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

It has been stated that it's for a similar reason expressed eons ago about PC. Fear of both piracy and the thought that someone would just use the principal OS for the machine instead of the AmigaOS port, thereby losing even more interest.

may be but why not. it would be just frank and clear cut, a proof of dedication if you will. it may hurt some. but from there on things would be easier again. i dont get why to stick to a fatalistic path, because it was once taken by someone pretty irrelevant.

Last edited by wawa on 24-Feb-2013 at 05:06 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 24-Feb-2013 at 05:06 PM.

Havent read these all nice comments but I payed for this repair and it is still in repair and paying for everything is just not fair as at that price You get a thousand thimes more powerful pc I know.

I am an Amigan and there were three, oops now too macs lying around and they get trashed too if nothing happens!

Long Live Windows;) We all love that don't we;)

Please accept my humor as it might be different from Yours.

Can I just start up a Mac and get it from a torrent... (These are going down if I don't get them or thrown out of the second floor what is ok for me if OS4 does not work?)

@wawa



I'm not sure, we have to wait year or two to see if something valuable comes out of new hw/modern standards for AOS...or everything is doomed and the only way was to stick with old hw and have fun only for year or two

Quote:

wouldnt it be better anyway?

Last edited by mr2 on 24-Feb-2013 at 06:57 PM.

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@PR

Quote:

...but I payed for this repair and it is still in repair and paying for everything is just not fair as at that price

Amiga OS4.x is an expensive hobby and very exclusive club unfortunately. If something breaks and you can't afford to fix it or buy a replacement you are out of the club. Thats just the reality of what Hyperion wants in a customer base.

That said, why has the repair shop not completed the repair you paid for?

Quote:

I am an Amigan and there were three, oops now too macs lying around and they get trashed too if nothing happens!

If you want to use a Mac MorphOS would certainly like having you as a customer. No need to trash it. If its a supported model you can use it. Otherwise sell the ones you have lying around to get a supported model.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Feb-2013 at 07:05 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

I have more than enough to burn a few macs and that said. Goodbuy,

@fairlanefastback

Well i personally came to the same conclusion some time ago, that the core buisiness is to lock-in and milk the customers based on the 'privilege' of running a legitimate successor;

personally am pretty tired to see all the power and smoke and mirrors around all related Amiga stuff, stsrted to distrust any commercial entity that might come in owning it and instead like to see the technology given to the users as maintainers, and that is why i support AROS, that is an amiga like OS BY users FOR users with no limitation on where and what to do with it...

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Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

@PR

Quote:

PR wrote: I am an Amigan and there were three, oops now too macs lying around and they get trashed too if nothing happens!

No need for torrents or such, just go to www.morphos.net, check for hw compability,, download the iso and give those Macs a new life. Demo version is free of cost.
Speed is impressive , compability good and stability high.
Testing MorphOS out is really easy.

_________________
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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Amiga OS4.x is an expensive hobby and very exclusive club unfortunately. If something breaks and you can't afford to fix it or buy a replacement you are out of the club. Thats just the reality of what Hyperion wants in a customer base.

i can imagine not only os4 holders but also its community might feel afraid of opening to a bigger market with no monetary privilidges like up till now. imagine stray but talented coders coming influencing the course of development. but alsoimagine the investments into up til then expensive hardware being eventually all in vain. scary.

Last edited by wawa on 24-Feb-2013 at 09:31 PM.

@mr2

using 2nd hand hardware is a pretty good approach in the current ppc situation. With the old Macs you have supply now. For future this leaves two options. Either market becomes big enough to sustain for new developments (doesn't look like that) or you bridge time with the uses machines to make an ISA switch.
For MorphOS it looks like the G5 will probably be the most powerful ppc supported and will offer enough power for the next future. In the meantime MorphOS will switch architecture and we will run it on x64 then.

Good side effects of the used hardware is that we can run MorphOS on hardware OS4 users can only dream of. I am typing this on a neat laptop that is about as fast as the X1000 and costed me only pocket money. Or I can have a MorphOS machine in the living room and have no hard time to convice the wife to accept that, since it is no bulky beast, but a tiny and shiny box (mini) that also supports her most used OS (but she uses MorphOS also and increasingly, I would't be too surprised if she's buying a license for her ibook eventually once 3.2 comes out).

But I understand that there is some demand for new machines, too. Hence I fully support the MorphOS team's decision to support Sams as well.

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

Quote:

using 2nd hand hardware is a pretty good approach in the current ppc situation. With the old Macs you have supply now. For future this leaves two options. Either market becomes big enough to sustain for new developments (doesn't look like that) or you bridge time with the uses machines to make an ISA switch. For MorphOS it looks like the G5 will probably be the most powerful ppc supported and will offer enough power for the next future.

Agreed, but this sentence (you mean x86-64?)...

Quote:

MorphOS will switch architecture and we will run it on x64 then.

...is some kind of wishfull thinking. I heard from MOS dev that its gonna be (if everything is ok, maybe) ARM architecture, so blue camp has to decide first, which way to go All in all, it was a good move (the only available option, I suppose) for MOS but the price is, you close it in an old technology while AOS is trying to go ahead. Its easier for MOS now but will be easier for AOS later...All camps have a very small user base, dev team, software base. It would be suicide to switch to x64/ARM...
There are lots of developement fields where AOS started to improve. The work is in progress. Everything is unfinished yet and looks very chaotic but there is a modern product in the end...the problem is, it takes years and suddenly we may have no users left PPC, multicore support, modern pcie is a way to go. The lack of good and reasonably priced hw is the most dangerous obstacle IMO. I hope a new, freescale based mobo will be a solution
For many its kind of policy. Not for me. I watch a whole situation from the economic point of view.
Good luck to all involved, let the force be with you

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@number6

IIRC, ACube was/is also the main distributor of AOS4 for Peg2.

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