I just upgraded from 2.6p1 to 2.8 and all seems well except that the filetsr aren't working.

None of them are being applied on a new mail as far as I can tell.

Any ideas on how to fix that?

They are all set to to apply to new mail int the filter definitions BTW

Last edited by broadblues on 05-Feb-2013 at 03:06 AM.

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

The log seams to suggest the filters were applied. But no action was taken.

the most common action I have setup is to move the mail to a dedicated folder.

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Can you give some more details about the filters, i.e. what is compared and how? Just stating "it doesn't work" is by far too weak to be able to help you.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@broadblues

In the "Comparison" tab of the Filter options, make sure the
"Use AmigaDOS Patterns" is selected, to be compatible with the
way it used to work, this option is OFF by default for some
wierd reason that intensionally breaks filter compatibility
with previous versions, and the reason why I didn't upgrade
to 2.7 for many years, because all my filters stopped working,
and I have quite an extensive set.


Now I have a new problem, i'm still using 2.7 now, because
when I tried upgrading to 2.8, it now messes up my folders and
adds some new one I can't figure out how to drive, it prevents
me being able to write a partial email and just place it "On Hold"
in the outgoing folder like I always have done,
it now wants to go into this new folder, (I can't remember what
it was called), but I can't send it from there for some reason,
I think I had to move it manually from there to the outgoing folder,
which was a pain in the arse, so I restored 2.7 to be able to
get it working again.

If this extra 2.8 folder option is not switchable in 2.9 and
fails to provide a smooth upgrade path this time, I guess i'm
staying with 2.7 for the next few years, again.


PLEASE DEVS - If you want to add new features, do so by all means,
it's a great program, but P L E A S E stop inconveniencing the user
when trying to upgrade, all it does is make them scared to do so,
because stuff is always breaking when they do it.

Make any "new features" disabled by default and the functionality
as identical as possible to the previous version.
Or, at least ASK when installing it, if they want the new features
turned on by default.

@colinw

All I can really say is: YAM will change in future as we try to bring it up to date to features commonly using with email clients today. And if you don't like that things change in life and that you have to adapt your workflow I am sorry to say so but then you have to keep up using old versions.

While the issue with the "Use AmigaDOS patterns" is certainly discussable (I wonder that no one has yet complained about it by writing a ticket on yam.ch), the point about the new "Drafts" folder is not discussable at all. If you don't understand its meaning or why it is there at allI am sorry to say so, but you have to spent more time on that than just starting yam, complaining immediately and reinstalling 2.7. And its not like that you are a plain user. you are even a developer and as such you should have the competence to judge if something make sense or not. And if you would have thought about it more than 2 seconds and tested it throughoutly then you wouldn't have complained at all but found it logically that there is a Drafts folder now.

However, that mail had been put there when you pressed "On hold" is certainly not correct. But unfortunately you refused to contact us or write an official ticket at yam.ch. In the meanwhile we fixed several things in yam already and will deliver these fixes (including a fix for the "on hold" problem) in a upcoming 2.8p1 version.

So please stop blaming/flaming around but concentrate on constructive discussions. And especially stop arguing all the time that nothing should change. Life changes every day and so does yam. And believe me when I say that we try hard to keep up backward compatibility and that we decide very wisely which feature to set as default and which not.

@colinw

Quote:

In the "Comparison" tab of the Filter options, make sure the "Use AmigaDOS Patterns" is selected, to be compatible with the way it used to work, this option is OFF by default for some wierd reason that intensionally breaks filter compatibility with previous versions, and the reason why I didn't upgrade to 2.7 for many years, because all my filters stopped working, and I have quite an extensive set.

While this was true for YAM 2.7-dev for the time of a few weeks during development this is not true for the final release version. This definitely defaults to using DOS patterns unless this is explicitly switched off. You can check this yourself here.

However, I must admit that there still was a chance to end up with a filter with disabled DOS pattern search. Since there must always be at least one rule for a filter this implicit first rule was unfortunately created with DOS pattern search being disabled. Updating from 2.6p1 to 2.7 or 2.8 would leave this inactive and only further rules would be updated correctly. Hence single rule filters will use simple string search instead of DOS pattern search.
This is something I just noticed 5 minutes ago. Sorry for this. YAM 2.8p1 will fix this.

But I really wonder why your filters are so heavily depending on DOS patterns. While it gives you the full power of pattern matching it is very slow compared to the Boyer-Moore string search algorithm and makes it very hard to search for characters like '#', '?' or '*'. This is why DOS pattern search was made optional in the first place.
Are you really using explict DOS patterns in your rules? I mean with enabled DOS pattern search YAM will already add "#?" before and after the given pattern string internally. Thus doing this yourself as well will result in a final pattern like "#?#?pattern#?#?". Although this will match exactly the same strings as "#?pattern#?" does this will add more overhead to the pattern matching process than necessary.

Quote:

Now I have a new problem, i'm still using 2.7 now, because when I tried upgrading to 2.8, it now messes up my folders and adds some new one I can't figure out how to drive, it prevents me being able to write a partial email and just place it "On Hold" in the outgoing folder like I always have done, it now wants to go into this new folder, (I can't remember what it was called), but I can't send it from there for some reason, I think I had to move it manually from there to the outgoing folder, which was a pain in the arse, so I restored 2.7 to be able to get it working again.

The folder is named "Drafts" and it is used for exactly this purpose: unfinished and automatically saved mails.

I also admit that this new feature has some quirks in YAM 2.8. For YAM 2.8p1 the philosophy will change slightly. The Outgoing folder will contain "finished and ready to be sent" mails only, while all other mails will go the the Drafts folder. Mails in Outgoing cannot be edited anymore. Instead mails in Drafts can be edited in full scale as before. However, mails in the Outgoing folder still can be "edited as new", which means a new mail with exactly the same contents will be created while the "old" mail in Outgoing will be kept unchanged and can still be sent. It is up to the user to delete the previously "finished" mail from Outgoing. Editing a mail in Drafts will modify exactly this mail instead of creating a new one. All this makes it possible to have a fully working "Cancel" mechanism. As soon as a mail ends up in Outgoing you cannot loose it anymore by editing it again and letting the autosave mechanism overwrite it. This will only affect mails in Drafts, which by definition serves exactly this purpose.

Quote:

If this extra 2.8 folder option is not switchable in 2.9 and fails to provide a smooth upgrade path this time, I guess i'm staying with 2.7 for the next few years, again.

Nobody will force you to update.

Quote:

Make any "new features" disabled by default and the functionality as identical as possible to the previous version. Or, at least ASK when installing it, if they want the new features turned on by default.

Sorry, but it is not possible to make every new feature configurable or optional. For certain things the new way must be enforced, if you like it or not.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@damato

Quote:

While the issue with the "Use AmigaDOS patterns" is certainly discussable (I wonder that no one has yet complained about it by writing a ticket on yam.ch), the point about the new "Drafts" folder is not discussable at all. If you don't understand its meaning or why it is there at allI am sorry to say so, but you have to spent more time on that than just starting yam, complaining immediately and reinstalling 2.7. And its not like that you are a plain user. you are even a developer and as such you should have the competence to judge if something make sense or not. And if you would have thought about it more than 2 seconds and tested it throughoutly then you wouldn't have complained at all but found it logically that there is a Drafts folder now.

I have to wonder why 2.8 has not been withdrawn, it's quite buggy, some serious - especially now that you're on the path to release 2.8p1. This would have avoided the very situation with broadblues and yourselves from wasting your valuable time.

@raumfahre

Quote:

raumfahre wrote: I have to wonder why 2.8 has not been withdrawn, it's quite buggy, some serious - especially now that you're on the path to release 2.8p1. This would have avoided the very situation with broadblues and yourselves from wasting your valuable time.

You cannot withdraw all the time versions just because they ended up to be somewhat slightly buggy. For many users 2.8 serves perfectly well I would say. However, there are some problems which we fixed already and which will go into 2.8p1 which will be released around April. Unfortunatley it seems that with the development of 2.8 the beta testing didn't end up as well as it could have been. It seems too many people are plainly using and complaining about YAM but not many are actually helping us in improving it given the number of tickets that have been created during the test phase of 2.8-dev.

@tboeckel

All the filters were working with 2.6p1 and all thesettings appeared to have ben imported into 2.8 which why I didn't say I can't get tis filter working or that filter working, it seemed tro be a generic problem, that meant I'd mssed an option to tuen filetring on or off somewhere and couldn't find it.

However Colin's post made me look again and all the filters had "Use AmigaDOS patterns" deactivated in the first comparison, but remaining on in the second or third if their is one.

Many of my filters use DOS pattersn so after reenabling that checkmark they are starting to work again.

I have quite a few filters set up so it'll take a while to be sure that they are all fixed.


BTW a bug report When trying copy and past the phrase "Use AmigaDOS patterns" out of the window (good that you can do that BTW) I pressed RAmiga-C this successfully copied the string but also triggered the C_ancel button. closing the window.

If a qualifier is pressed it a key should not trigger a gadget shortcut

YAM bug or MUI bug?

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

BTW a bug report When trying copy and past the phrase "Use AmigaDOS patterns" out of the window (good that you can do that BTW) I pressed RAmiga-C this successfully copied the string but also triggered the C_ancel button. closing the window. If a qualifier is pressed it a key should not trigger a gadget shortcut YAM bug or MUI bug?

What exactly are you trying to copy here? The label text "Use AmigaDOS patterns"? This will be automatically copied by MUI itself as soon as you release the left mouse button. You even get a visual feedback for this: the marking will be removed to indicate that the text was copied, just like it is done for string objects. Thus pressing RAmiga+C of course will trigger the Cancel button, which is using "C" as a shortcut key when using the built-in english locale. Copying a text part from any of the string objects works perfecly without triggering the Cancel button. MUI has always ignored qualifiers when looking for possible trigger objects. This is nothing new.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@tboeckel

It seams held mail is sent to 'drafts' now and not held in outgoing.

This is annoying because 'held' and 'draft' is not the same thing, (even if held mail can be a used for draft mail under the old system)

A held mail is mail you have written and don;t want to send yet and draft mail is one you have not finished.

A mail in drafts is not moved to outgoing when you click send rather it seems to be coppied. Leaving junk in drafts to be cleared up.

Quote:

I also admit that this new feature has some quirks in YAM 2.8. For YAM 2.8p1 the philosophy will change slightly. The Outgoing folder will contain "finished and ready to be sent" mails only, while all other mails will go the the Drafts folder.

You know you had it right in 2.6? There was no need for this Draft fuctionaily? There's no need to emulate the flaws of email client from other operting systems when you have a simple and easier to use setup allready. ie just click HOLD.

Quote:

Mails in Outgoing cannot be edited anymore. Instead mails in Drafts can be edited in full scale as before. However, mails in the Outgoing folder still can be "edited as new", which means a new mail with exactly the same contents will be created while the "old" mail in Outgoing will be kept unchanged and can still be sent.

Even if you must have this new Draft function, please do not limit the editing of mails anywhere, your new system will result in duplicate mails in outgoing and or the mistaken sending of unedited mails. This could end up with dire consequences for a user, amnd is a foolhardy modification IMHO.

Quote:

It is up to the user to delete the previously "finished" mail from Outgoing. Editing a mail in Drafts will modify exactly this mail instead of creating a new one. All this makes it possible to have a fully working "Cancel" mechanism.

I don't undertsnd why preventing me from editing a mail in outgoing, allows a Cancel mechism?

Quote:

As soon as a mail ends up in Outgoing you cannot loose it anymore by editing it again and letting the autosave mechanism overwrite it. This will only affect mails in Drafts, which by definition serves exactly this purpose.

AutoSave? where is the off button for that? *If* there is an autosave it should always autosave to a copy, never overwrite the original! And always be switch offable?

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

AutoSave? where is the off button for that? *If* there is an autosave it should always autosave to a copy, never overwrite the original! And always be switch offable?

From Doc/YAM_english.guide, chapter 'Configuration - Hidden options' :
"[...]
AutoSave
While you're writing a message, YAM saves the contents of the
editor every ten minutes as .autosave0.txt} or .autosave1.txt in
the program directory. After a crash you can load this file using
'Text/Insert'. The AutoSave parameter contains the time interval
between two backups, in seconds.

Example: AutoSave = 600"

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@tboeckel

I was indeed trying to copy the label text. In the case of that label the highlighting did not dispppear after the mouse stroke, so I didn't realise it had been coppied and thus pressed RAmiga-C triggering the cancel button.

So a subtly different bug then some label hilites are not clearing of dragging the mouse to cut & paste.


Another more YAM specific issue, it seems that new mail is not marked old when more mail is fetched. This used to be optional, but I can't find the option has it gone? I found this very useful as I don;t always read all mail as it comes in but want know if a new mail has arrived.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@abalaban

Okay that's the way it used to work and that's safe, but that seems inconsistant with tbeokels statement about overwriting the outgoing mail.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Delete only delete one mail at a time! Even though it asks you to confirm the multidelete. Just how broken is this update?


[edit]
removed profanity, and goes away to calm down
[/edit]


[edit]

It seems that not just 'delete' but 'move' only moves one mail at atime. ie if you multiselect a bunch of mails then drag them to a new folder only one mail is moved the others reman where they are still selected.

Last edited by broadblues on 05-Feb-2013 at 12:23 PM.
Last edited by broadblues on 05-Feb-2013 at 12:05 PM.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

I was indeed trying to copy the label text. In the case of that label the highlighting did not dispppear after the mouse stroke, so I didn't realise it had been coppied and thus pressed RAmiga-C triggering the cancel button. So a subtly different bug then some label hilites are not clearing of dragging the mouse to cut & paste.

Ok, you are right. The marking is extended to the complete label text in case the mouse button is released outside the label's area. I will make this consistent with the next release.

Quote:

Another more YAM specific issue, it seems that new mail is not marked old when more mail is fetched. This used to be optional, but I can't find the option has it gone? I found this very useful as I don;t always read all mail as it comes in but want know if a new mail has arrived.

That option has been removed since we implemented multiple mail accounts. Since each account can be checked for new mail without blocking the user interface and with a customizable delay between two checks this feature became quite inconsistent as checking one account would remove the "New" state of mails from another account.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@tboeckel

Quote:

That option has been removed since we implemented multiple mail accounts. Since each account can be checked for new mail without blocking the user interface and with a customizable delay between two checks this feature became quite inconsistent as checking one account would remove the "New" state of mails from another account.

That's rather annoying, it's a small but particularly useful feature if you get alot of mail.

I can see that if you have it as a per mail account setting it gets trickey but the solution would have been to have as a global option applying to all accounts rather than to remove it.


I wonder if I can readdit with ARexx ?

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Quote:

It seams held mail is sent to 'drafts' now and not held in outgoing. This is annoying because 'held' and 'draft' is not the same thing, (even if held mail can be a used for draft mail under the old system) A held mail is mail you have written and don;t want to send yet and draft mail is one you have not finished. A mail in drafts is not moved to outgoing when you click send rather it seems to be coppied. Leaving junk in drafts to be cleared up.

No, you are mixing up "Send later" and "Put on hold" here. Mails "on hold" were never sent out automatically with YAM up to 2.7. They got a special flag to tell them apart from other mails ready to be sent. This explicit state has been replaced by an implicit state in YAM 2.8 by putting these mail in the special Drafts folder. That means that all mails in Outgoing are ready to be sent and all mail in Drafts are left on the machine for further editing. I think this is a clean solution.

Quote:

Quote: I also admit that this new feature has some quirks in YAM 2.8. For YAM 2.8p1 the philosophy will change slightly. The Outgoing folder will contain "finished and ready to be sent" mails only, while all other mails will go the the Drafts folder. You know you had it right in 2.6? There was no need for this Draft fuctionaily? There's no need to emulate the flaws of email client from other operting systems when you have a simple and easier to use setup allready. ie just click HOLD.

Stick with YAM 2.7 if you don't like the behaviour of YAM 2.8. We will not force you to update. But on the other hand will no longer fix bugs in YAM 2.7 either.

Quote:

Quote: Mails in Outgoing cannot be edited anymore. Instead mails in Drafts can be edited in full scale as before. However, mails in the Outgoing folder still can be "edited as new", which means a new mail with exactly the same contents will be created while the "old" mail in Outgoing will be kept unchanged and can still be sent. Even if you must have this new Draft function, please do not limit the editing of mails anywhere, your new system will result in duplicate mails in outgoing and or the mistaken sending of unedited mails. This could end up with dire consequences for a user, amnd is a foolhardy modification IMHO.

Jens and me had quite a long discussion about this. And we came to the conclusion that it is more important to keep a formerly "ready to be sent" mail in Outgoing unchanged, rather than to loose it completely due to unwanted edit+autosave operation. If you are double clicking a mail in Outgoing you will now get a plain read window just like for a mail in Incoming. To edit this mail you must choose "Edit as new" from the menu, like you can do for any other mail in any other folder. This should make clear that you are going to create a completely new mail, although with the same initial content.

NOTE: This is how YAM 2.8p1 will behave. YAM 2.8 is still slightly different here. If you like you can check already by installing a nightly build of YAM 2.9-dev.

Quote:

Quote: It is up to the user to delete the previously "finished" mail from Outgoing. Editing a mail in Drafts will modify exactly this mail instead of creating a new one. All this makes it possible to have a fully working "Cancel" mechanism. I don't undertsnd why preventing me from editing a mail in outgoing, allows a Cancel mechism?

Because the auto save feature will overwrite the original mail without asking you. This is the nature of "auto save". And thus the original mail will be lost as soon as auto save strikes. No way back.

Quote:

AutoSave? where is the off button for that? *If* there is an autosave it should always autosave to a copy, never overwrite the original! And always be switch offable?

Config -> Write -> Autosave interval
Set this to zero seconds and be confident.

And no, the typical auto save feature saves to the same file all the time. Otherwise you would end up with tons of mails in different states of writing (i.e. in the Drafts folder) the longer it takes you to finish the mail. Not very intuitive.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@abalaban

This is no hidden option any more since quite a long time already. In fact this timeout can be modified in the GUI since YAM 2.5 already. That version has been released more than 5 years ago. Quite a long time to never visit the configuration to let this go unnoticed.

But I admit that the documentation is really lagging behind.

_________________
Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann

@tboeckel

Quote:

No, you are mixing up "Send later" and "Put on hold" here.

No I know the difference, 'send later' will send next time I click on send in the toolbar. Hold will stay put till I change the flag. Similar but importantly different.


Quote:

Config -> Write -> Autosave interval Set this to zero seconds and be confident.

Switched off

Quote:

And no, the typical auto save feature saves to the same file all the time. Otherwise you would end up with tons of mails in different states of writing (i.e. in the Drafts folder) the longer it takes you to finish the mail. Not very intuitive.

Quote:

rather than to loose it completely due to unwanted edit+autosave operation. I

That's the problem with destructive autosave, IMHO autosave should save a fallback copy so edits are not lost, but not overwrite the original till the user actively commits the change. Many apps bahave like this and many don't. Any that don't I always turn off the autosave, it's too dangerous to risk documents that way, especially if there is no "save history" (which wouldn't be normal for email clients).

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