@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: offtopic... but anyway: IIRC, Peg2 has gone open source. How hard it would be to build Peg2 HW emulator / sandbox / PCI card / whatever to enable AOS4 and MOS to be used on more HW than what is being done today? (with CPU JIT on x86+ARM and without CPU emu on PPC) It might also help MOScrowd in the architecture change. And enable the use of existing PPC SW on x86.

youd need to put the notrh and southbrisge stuff into pearpc or qemu. for peg2 that is marvell discovery 2 and via vt8231 southbridge. you could do the same for the 440 or 460 etc. for the sam versions of things. look up the register definitions for the chip(s) and reproduce them in the emulator. im not sure how easy that info is to get for the marvell/via chips anymore, or if ndas would interfere with adding them to open-source emulators for any of these chips. but some time ago i asked via for 686 docs and i received that in an email, no nda or anything required.

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@Belxjander

Quote:

there is "RPM" based Linux with YellowDog, "DEB" based Linux with the Debian Gnu/Linux distribution,and then there is source based like "Gentoo" and "SourceMage"...

I'm well versed in all things Linux.

Quote:

Better to have a choice isn't it?

Not always. So, you're going to build LFS system and what then? Give it to Amiga community? And once you get bored with that who will take it over?

Playing with self-made distros is fine for a x86-users. They have all the support and all the distros you can shake your stick at. AmigaOne/Sam does not have that option so doing "I'll build my own because I can" will be a wasted effort.

Helping to get patches into mainline kernel and contributing to Debian's port is the way to secure some future of Linux on AmigaOne/Sam.

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@opi

So youve seen I will LFS to bootstrap it but chosen to assume that it will have no future beyond that?

I did specifically say I would be *adding* an existing packaging system, not creating one...

ahh well... which packaging system would I choose in the end? since that is where I would be dealing with which distribution I support in this way.

I won't be creating and dropping it with the expectation of someone else keeping it up to date.

@Fairdinkem

CRUX PPC 32bit works fine on Peg2 .

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@Geri

Quote:

2. Sven Luther was the Debian powerpc maintainer at the time when the Pegasos came out. And if I remember correctly Sven Luther was also working for Genesi. That certainly helped (not to forget that Sven Luther also offered help with the integration of AmigaOne specific patches - if they would have been available at that time).

Sven Luther certainly was a Genesi "employee" and was instrumental in a lot of the LInux kernel support for Pegasos. Sven was quite talented and came from a prestigious technical school in Strasborg (i think). I'm sure he helped with Aone patches as he was literally an expert on ppc kernels and PPC Debian.


Anyway, interestingly enough, he also was the Classic Amiga PPC Debian maintainer! He also for a while there was doing custom kernel mods for MOL for pegasos, among many other things. Without Sven the ODW project never would have happened as well...

*edit*
Oh and btw funny thing some one lecturing Opi on linux

Last edited by realize on 23-Apr-2012 at 10:36 AM.

@opi

Quote:

Playing with self-made distros is fine for a x86-users. They have all the support and all the distros you can shake your stick at. AmigaOne/Sam does not have that option so doing "I'll build my own because I can" will be a wasted effort.

I disagree. I think it is more of a "I'll build my own because we need too."

x86 already has autoboot Linux CD's with a GUI or desktop that can install everything for you and set up the system to boot afterward. We don't. So we need to help eachother by producing user friendly installer CD's. And in the least some type of installer with extra work required.

The A1 Linux project was stalled when Ross Vumbaca left us with an A1 Woody which stagnated. I wanted an updated distro so investigated this and produced my A1 Etch installer with the help of Geri who compiled the kernel. Right now I'm working further on perfecting the A1 Linux installer so we at least can have a bootable CD, select items from a boot menu, and be able to install Linux with the installer taking care of putting the kernel and modules on there as well as making the system bootable.

Aside from a few setbacks, I'm almost there. So while it would be good to have offical Debian support, I know what's involved with creaitng a workable installer CD and so right now think it would be best if what we did was help each other out. Now, when I installed Debian Woody on my A1 in the day, I knew nothing about Linux. And slowly learnt all about it. Even now, I'm by no means a Linux expert, but I have learned what is required on our particular hardware to process a Debian installer image and get it booting on the A1.

Last edited by Hypex on 23-Apr-2012 at 11:44 AM.

@Hypex

Quote:

I disagree. I think it is more of a "I'll build my own because we need too."

There's a difference between:

I'll build a friendly installer for Debian because we can't get our changes into Debian due low popularity of our hardware solutions

and

I'll build a Linux system starting from LFS project and then add a packaging system on top of that

It's difference btween writting a proper 3th party IRC/Twitter client and writting your own Twitter service and/or real-time chat server. One is reasonable the other is reinventing the wheel.

Last edited by opi on 23-Apr-2012 at 12:47 PM.

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@opi

*sigh*... there is a difference between "add" where I select an existing solution and "add" where I write my own...

When did you ask me which way I would go with this?

You did not at any point that I know about ask about this...

If you wish to promote the concept that I would not be using an existing solution from the various available...

Whether is it debians dpkg/deb/apt-get based or rpm-based or another I have yet left undecided.

And will you stop dictating to me to just "use debian"? is it not my choice how I handle this for myself?

@Belxjander

Quote:

When did you ask me which way I would go with this?

Why would I ask you? You said you're going with LFS and will bootstrap SourcMage on it or get package-tools from other distribution.

Quote:

Whether is it debians dpkg/deb/apt-get based or rpm-based or another I have yet left undecided.

Do you understand that there's more to packages than tools? So, you're going to build your LFS and put RPM/DEB with yum/zypper/dpkg/apt/aptititue/whatever on it. OK, what's your next step? Pull source-packages and rebuild them on your distribution? Make your distribution binary-compatible with source distribution?

If you're going to be binary compatible: what's the point? If you're going to rebuild packages against your GCC/glibc how often you're going to do it? There's quite a few packages. If you're going with upstream packages: who will add all the scripts, test your build, provide QA?

I have a book laying somewhere, "The Embedded Linux System", it's very old but it shows how easy is to get a small bootable distro. A kernel, initrd and maybe few tools in /usr/bin. If you're going to build single-use, stripped down Linux system going with own remix is not that crazy (still, you could just get something like Armstrong and be done with it). If you're going to build desktop-Linux it's going to be hard work. And your plan is to make it harder.

Quote:

And will you stop dictating to me to just "use debian"? is it not my choice how I handle this for myself?

I think you misunderstand me. I'm using Debian as an example of well maintained, popular distribiton that has quite a few good developers and is friendly to obscure ports. Debian solved many issues that you're going to solve by yourself, and I don't think you're up to it (nor any one person is).

Also: this is your third project that seems to have technical goals I can't wrap my head around. You're asking this community for hard cash. This community has been taken for a ride few times too much.

I'm skeptical about your projects. It wouldn't be an issue if you didn't ask for cash. Once you did my job is to keep you honest and let people see if they trust you. You may think I'm some kind male sex organ but such is life.

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@opi

Well I would most likely use SourceMages scripting and I do have support in that distributions community already having done QA for them for several years now.

Thank you for the clarification, I was under the misimpression that you were pushing me to use debian instead. I am happy to be corrected about that.

I was a developer previously and as Ive stated before I was helping others, not writing my own projects.

Ive started checking in code for the two projects I previously discussed, and this would be based on existing portation methods.

As for seeing you as some kind of male sex organ.... that thought never even entered my mind until you suggested it...do we need such ad hominem attacks derailing proper discussions?

Keep the Skepticism... its refreshing to actually have an honest debate...

I'd be more than happy to explain the technical points of both projects as that is how I think, I've never considered myself to have any great skill with people.

If there is any further questions you would like me to elaborate about with regards each project??... please ask me directly.

I don't have anything to hide and would prefer to openly deal with them so that everyone can see for themselves.
I've had to deal with too much "real life" crap with hidden conversations making things unclear.

Yes, the projects are technical and specific to details. as for anything else... I don't consider anything of the projects themselves "new" other than the arrangement of parts like puzzle pieces.

Maybe our styles clash? I'm not sure... I'm only sure as to how I want to layout the handling for the Perception-IME and Polymorph-VM materials.

Would an updated SMGL ISO be a welcome addition? if not... I can leave it as a personal "want to do" and the community is free to ignore it as nothing more than a suggested option.

@Belxjander

Opi is yet another pathetic idiot who has a problem with ppc.
Do not take him seriously.
Do what makes YOU happy.

@mailman2

Quote:

Opi is yet another pathetic idiot who has a problem with ppc.

Even if I'm pathetic idiot who has a problem with PowerPC you still need to address my points. Sorry, now go, gownups are talking.

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@opi

There is a difference between the two but sometimes I think an LFS solution would be the best to go.

That or using a build system such as the debian installer builder.

But either way we still need a kernel and modules and some skeleton files in order to produce an installer for any system.

@ppc_addon

Thanks for your post which has been the most on topic lately.

Though I haven't helped keep to the topic I still haven't seen a link to any installer for the Pegasos 2. Is this still too hard in this day and age?

@mailman2

Opi is neither pathetic nor an idiot.

More just showing skepticism, which is something to appreciate and accept.

Better to have a skeptical person you can call a friend than a "yes man" who is calling himself your friend and truly no friend at all.

I'm taking things seriously for what I can understand and asking questions when I don't.

What I *want* to do and be happy doing is developing for AmigaOS with some experimentation using Linux as well...

so I will need to have at least a machine able to run both (once I finish payments this will happen).
If anyone considers what I am doing helpful to the community... I'm accepting donations.

But please heed Opi's advice in being well informed about the projects themselves.

I'm more than willing to list donors along with full payment handling as needed in public.

I've got nothing to hide in what I want to do or in what I am doing.

so happiness is a lot easier to come by :)

@ppc_addon

Thank you I will look into it do you happen to have a link to an ISO or something that can aid a novice like me in installing it?

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@

Getting some were at last.

Linux Debian Lenny 5.03 Sam440ep net install CD experimental version with Gart enabled
Basic install with network cable unplugged.
Preseed failed again but starting a shell from the installer and doing a
manual delete of one line and edit of one line in the menu.lst file results in a bootable installation.
Thanks to Elwood's installation guide and Acube's Dual boot AmigaOS 4.1 and Linux Debian on Sam440ep Guide for the tips used here.
Manually reconfigure the network interface for DHCP using command-line.
Edit the /etc/apt/source.list to point to squeeze .
apt-get update
apt-get install apt dpkg aptitude
apt-get dist-upgrade
reboot

now on to trying to install GNOME .

And Gnome loads. !

Debian Sqeeze installed. !

Not perfect as it is unstable. but it can be done.
Will see if I can sort out the stability issues .

Last edited by Spectre660 on 24-Apr-2012 at 02:32 AM.

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@Fairdinkem

Perhaps time to try a Pegasos forum.

@Fairdinkem

Quote:

Fairdinkem wrote: @ppc_addon Thank you I will look into it do you happen to have a link to an ISO or something that can aid a novice like me in installing it?

there is an handbook with extensive instructions:
http://cruxppc.org/Documentation

and here to download it (crux-ppc-2.7a.iso), there is an australian mirror too:
http://cruxppc.org/Download#m1

Last edited by ppc_addon on 25-Apr-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Last edited by ppc_addon on 25-Apr-2012 at 06:36 PM.

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@Fairdinkem

Pegasos II is also supported by ofppc port of the NetBSD (which is not Linux, but a UNIX-like system that belongs to the BSD family). I highly recommend checking it out! All devices on Pegasos II main board are supported and ofppc is an official port, so Pegasos II will even be supported in the new (upcoming) 6.0 version of the NetBSD.