Have a good read...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/09/297353/margaret-thatchers-criminal-legacy/

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@SpaceDruid

I'm entitled to my opinion, as you are yours.
I find celebrating someone's death poor form!

Rude!

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@ Rudei

Your "utter disgust" has been duly noted and discarded...

Perfectly entitled to your opinion mate as am I to mine...

Like I said in my initial post "I've never actually celebrated the death of anyone" until now but I again make no apologies for celebrating the death of that evil old hag. She sent my uncle (a lifelong miner) to an early grave in 1987, did she shed a tear or even apologise or show the slightest bit of remorse for that, did she hell...

Thatcher and her single minded crusade to destroy society (remember she is the one who said there is no such thing as society) put many people into early graves...

From pensioners who died of hypothermia because they couldn't afford heat themselves adequately due to the cuts she made in their pensions and income, to hardy working class men whom she robbed of their livelihoods, their homes, ruined their lives and that of their families and drove them to such ill health the stress of it all killed them or indeed some even committed suicide over the stress of her fecking hate filled ambition do destroy something she claimed didn't event exist, society...

I honestly wish Thatcher had never been born and the world had therefore never heard of her, sadly though she was and she went on to become someone who had some very serious adverse and grave affects on millions of peoples lives in this nation...

So with that I celebrate on my behalf and more importantly on behalf of all those she was responsible for their premature deaths with great joy and a twisted sense of pleasure that finally her life of living in luxury that she took at the expense of others is at last over and may she rot in hell for that...

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@Rudei

Quote:

I'm entitled to my opinion, as you are yours. I find celebrating someone's death poor form!

Then I am glad that you have had no dealings with anyone that has been so destructive to your life that you can empathise with us. You are truly blessed.

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@Franko

There are many people too young to remember just how bad what she did actually was to live through, though they learned to hate her by simply living in the broken world that she left behind. I'll give a modern example.

Banks are causing a problem. So we can scale back their power, put proper controls in place to keep the balance of power level. Or we can bulldoze Manhattan, turn it into farmland and tell everyone living there to become farmers.

What's that? You don't know how to farm? Well fuck you. Go and learn. Whats this? There isn't even close to being enough farmland on the island to support yourself? Well fuck you, go farm in Mexico or something. What's that? You are all starving with no hope and you want to protest? Well fuck you, we've outlawed protests and withdrawn any remaining infrastructure. What that? You aren't a banker, you just run a shop? Fuck you, you chose to have a shop in an area of bankers. It's your own fault you've had to close because we've bulldozed your shop.

It's all your own fault. You shouldn't have gotten so power hungry.

This is irony dear Americans (Sometime this gets lost in translation between out cultures). For years you've been misreading her name. She was the Irony Lady.






And that's the rub. Most of the people she bribed with the right to buy their council house ended up finding the hard way why the government were so keen to get rid of the large stock of houses. They were badly built and needed modernisation. On top of the mortgage they got for buying the house, they then needed massive loans to put stone-cladding on their home to try to make it stand out...



...from all the other identical houses on the street so that everyone knew they had bought it. Oh and it's no longer referred to as a home, it's now "property"

They enjoyed more loans for home improvements, made possible by the lowered taxes funded by the massive sale of housing (which the government will not bother to replace, thereby creating a massive housing shortage that will bite them towards the end of their rule).

This new lower middle class would then go on to buy cars and holidays in the sun, all paid for by the never-never and the massive hole in the economy would be papered over by selling off all the service industries for well below their market value. The criminal underfunding of the NHS and rail services (which wasn't in such demand as everyone was buying cars).

Then suddenly...



Being the only person on your tower block to own your own home isn't quite as prestigious as it once was and maybe the hard sell of passing your home down through the generations isn't as long term a prospect as it once was.

As more and more people find out, "property" isn't safe as houses. Even assuming your house wasn't built on a flood plain or in the way of a city bypass, the value of your home can plummet faster than a Wall Street banker on an especially black Friday

And. Yet. People. Keep. Falling. For. It. (pun intended)

This is her legacy. Short term booms where the rich get incredibly richer, the middle classes get a taste of wealth before it's snatched away again in a bust and the rest of the country never get anything other than scraps that fall from the table.

Hard to believe that this is the same country that at the end of WWII when Britain had absolutely nothing, managed to come together to form the NHS, rehouse entire generations and put the lives of others on an equal footing to each other. When strangers would help without reward.

Thatcher took away what the British people spent a century building. It's society. Now whatever we have today is not of our own invention. Police officers suing victims of crime because they tripped over a kerb while investigating a burglary? War veterans being forced out of their homes by chavs (an social group entirely created by Thatchers Britian)? A welfare state overloaded with the legacy of Thatchers policies in pretty much every area outside London and the home counties and then the wealthy of the country taking away what little they had so they don't have to pay a few more quid to the taxman.

I could make this thread longer than the gay marriage one with the effects Thatcherism has had on modern Britain, especially for those poor bastards in Northern Ireland that not only faced the same deprivations as the mainland, but had to endure the results of her hostile policies which resulted in the escalation of the actions of terrorist groups, some of which were funded and controlled by her government.

And then I could start another thread regarding the effects of her actions on other countries populations... But all it would do is remind me of why people are partying in the streets and queuing up to piss on her grave and she has already caused me enough heartache in my life. I won't allow her do do any more.

I'm glad she is dead. I'm sorry that she never got to experience the pain of her actions or suffer the consequences.

Bang bang, the bitch is dead. Bang bang.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 10-Apr-2013 at 04:12 PM.

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And why is this evil bitch who brought misery to so many getting all the press coverage while a person that brought joy's passing goes by with barely a mutter?



Test-tube baby pioneer Sir Robert Edwards dies

That's how you get people not wanting to piss on your grave when you die. Do things to help others less fortunate than yourself.

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@A1200

Quote:

A1200 wrote: @Franko I would say the right to buy council houses was a good scheme - it gave people otherwise set to die with nothing more than they started with a chance to build wealth. I don't agree with your note on the video you made where you say she right to buy stopped people getting council houses - the people who took up their right to buy were living in the council houses, and had to do for so many years to qualify, and the discount on the price got larger the longer you had inhabited the house.

@ A1200

The "Right To Buy" to me personally is one of the most damaging and dumbest things Thatcher ever did. The affect of such an ill thought out policy based solely on greed is still affecting millions of people to this very day and will continue to do so until a brave enough government comes along and abolishes it and invests properly once again in new social housing stock....

The social housing stock (Council houses) was set up in the first place to simply make sure as much as possible that everyone could have a roof over their heads no matter what their financial circumstances. It was one of the things that did indeed once make this country genuinely great...

You do realise now that the rules have been changed and people only have to live in a council house for 4 weeks and pay one months rent to qualify for the full discount on the price to buy (well most councils apply that rule now)...

I don't agree with social housing stock being sold off and never will...

Why on earth should someone be allowed to "build wealth" at the expense of others whom can't afford it but more importantly "build wealth" by taking a publicly owned and much needed asset and making it private for their own financial gain at the cost of taking the roof over the heads from future residents...

It's the reason why people can't get a council home today, because the greedy and selfish jumped on this band wagon, bought up the vast majority of all social housing stock, most of whom went on to make a very healthy profit from it and now their kids and grandkids are suffering cos their is not enough council houses for them to leave home and have a roof over their heads...

There has always been the opportunity in this country to buy a home privately if you want to and could afford it, and until Thatcher there was also a way for those whom could not afford it to have a Council House roof over their heads...

Sadly she all but destroyed that with her "I'm allright Jack" & "looking after number one" attitude she introduced to this nation and like I say we're ALL still paying the price for all this selfishness right up to this very day...

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @Franko I'm glad she is dead. I'm sorry that she never got to experience the pain of her actions or suffer the consequences. Bang bang, the bitch is dead. Bang bang.

I agree with everything you said in that post there (very well put)...

But the wee bit I have just quoted above for me right now is the most impost thing,...

It goes beyond happiness and is no doubt totally alien to those whom were not directly affected by Thatcher (or at least they think they weren't)...

Now is a time to celebrate and enjoy, cos rest assured after all the pomp and ceremony of the funeral is over, sadly the rotten legacy of Thatcher will live on and affect us all and we've got to live with that until we croak it too, so enjoy this time while you can cos there's still a lifetime of Thatchers legacy to live through...

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@Franko

The I'm all right jack thing is not the same as I want to do better than live in social housing forever and want to get more from life than my parents or grandparents had. Just because I was born poor (I was, relatively), does that mean I have to stay there where a rich person keeps all the money. Don't sound fair to me.

I am not some big conservative either, my politics is quite middle ground. I would rather
tear up money and work for the greater good truth be told, but as society has made it a "race" a "struggle" nonetheless, I am not going to wait to be fed the scraps by those who have everything.

Seems like some people complain about living on the breadline and being worse off than others but when an opportunity arises to mobilise oneself socially, it is characterised as greed.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @Rudei Quote: I'm entitled to my opinion, as you are yours. I find celebrating someone's death poor form! Then I am glad that you have had no dealings with anyone that has been so destructive to your life that you can empathise with us. You are truly blessed.

Yep, I clearly am.

Rude!

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@A1200

Quote:

A1200 wrote: @Franko The I'm all right jack thing is not the same as I want to do better than live in social housing forever and want to get more from life than my parents or grandparents had.

I never claimed it was !!!

Quote:

Just because I was born poor (I was, relatively), does that mean I have to stay there where a rich person keeps all the money. Don't sound fair to me.

I too came from a very poor background born in the slums of the Gorbals in Glasgow and I too went on to build myself a better life than my parents ever had...

Not though through buying social housing stock and making a profit at the expense of others...


Quote:

I am not some big conservative either, my politics is quite middle ground. I would rather tear up money and work for the greater good truth be told, but as society has made it a "race" a "struggle" nonetheless, I am not going to wait to be fed the scraps by those who have everything.

You make what you can out of life but like I say not at the expense of others that's the way I see and do things...

Society has all sort of labels they like to stick on everyone and everything, but they only apply to you if you allow them to...

Myself I am just me, I don't label myself as poor or rich, I don't label myself as working class, middle class or upperclass, I don't label myself as right wing, left wing , middle of the road....

Simple thing is I don't label myself as anything except Scottish for the sake of identifying where I come from to others, if others want to stick labels on me that's fine but just cos they do doesn't mean they apply and nor do I recognise or even bother about them...


Quote:

Seems like some people complain about living on the breadline and being worse off than others but when an opportunity arises to mobilise oneself socially, it is characterised as greed.

No doubt many people do but like I say be it the "greed" label or whatever, it only applies to you if you allow it...

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@A1200

Quote:

I would say the right to buy council houses was a good scheme

If the "right to buy" had been about getting more people housed, then why were the proceeds of the sale not permitted to be used to replace the sold off stock. Once people bought their homes on a 25 year mortgage, usually backed up by an endowment policy, they changed from being a sitting tenant with rights, to debtors whose asset could be reposessed comparatively easily. For those who avoided the spate of reposessions when the interest rate skyrocketed in 1990, there is now the privilege of being told that the endowment that was supposed to pay the mortgage and leave you a little extra cash at the end, has a shortfall so you are still in debt. A win-win situation for the spivs and shysters.

Her big claim to glory was the Falklands war, and yet if Galtieri had offered her a few quid to "privatise" the islands instead of sending in his army to invade, she would have offloaded the Falklands like a shot, and told the islanders that it was in their own best interests as they were a loss making section of the British economy.

@Franko

Ding dong!

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@A1200

Quote:

The I'm all right jack thing is not the same as I want to do better than live in social housing forever and want to get more from life than my parents or grandparents had. Seems like some people complain about living on the breadline and being worse off than others but when an opportunity arises to mobilise oneself socially, it is characterised as greed.

Post WWII, everyone needed a safety net. Troops came back from the war to find their home was now a crater, the job they had pre-war was non existant because either the factory was bombed, or the company couldn't weather six years of war and zero income.

Massive numbers of homes were built, both giving people places to live and creating work since somebody had to build the things. This was done during a time where the country was utterly bankrupt and people of all social classes had been humbled by the realities of post war Britain.

These houses were built by and for everyone. The house would remain in your family for as long as you had family to remain, you could plan for your family's future knowing your children would be housed locally so your children trained to be most suited to the jobs in your area. Business would know where to set up as they'd have a guaranteed source of trained workers, an established nationalised transportation system would ensure their product would reach the customer wherever they lived and all the support structures were in place to give confidence to both worker and investor alike. Jobs were for life.

Then in the 1970's, things went wrong. International events changed the balance of power and trade unions began to want more of the wealth that was being generated in these safe and secure setups. Management were unwilling or unable to satisfy union demands and then we had strikes. At the same time, government funding of vital services were scaled back, party due to the pressures of the world economy and partly because the people in power favored certain UK regions over others and left the others to decline.

All of this became the perfect storm for a radical politician to gain power and to enforce policies that would not otherwise be accepted. Not unexpectedly this caused huge unpopularity and were it not for a certain group of islands being invaded then successfully recaptured, Maggie Thatcher would be a footnote in history.

As it was, she knew the only way to remain in power beyond a second term was to bribe the population. One of the ways she did this was by ridding herself of the burden of providing homes for people that were never going to vote for her long term anyway by allowing them to buy their homes, thereby removing government responsibility to home people. She then began then to dismantle the infrastructure that provided that stable environment for local business, so business began to look elsewhere. Usually that was in the areas in the south, away from the power of the unions in the north.

With business gone, people had no need to provide services so the service industry closed down, then the shops, then the schools. Soon the only thing a lot of people had was a house. No place for their kids to be employed, no real purpose for remaining other than being stuck with a house that nobody wanted to buy.

This poverty you say you say you have a right to escape. It didn't exist prior to Thatcher in a post war Britain, at least not anywhere like the scale it became and not regionalised. We rid Britian of that terrible disease with the new post war world. It took time but it worked. You would have had no reason TO move to better your life. Traveling to find work to better yourself is a requirement caused by Thatcher's recklessness.

The Style Council's "Homebreaker" sums up how things changed in the 80's

"Good morning day, how do you do
I wonder - what will you do for me?
I should be on my way, I should be earning pay,
I should be all the things that I'm not -
And I've tried on my own, now there's nothing to keep me at home,
Like my Brother has too - gotta leave to get out of this view,
You see they, tell you to move around -
If you can't find work in your own town.

As I rise from my bed I can hear the old man
Blaming Heaven & Mother for this
30 Years with one firm, 13 months redundant,
Yes I'd say that's unlucky for some -

Now our tears fall like rain, as my Mother walks me to my train,
With a kiss & a wave - ";Come home weekends"; - that's if I can save.
I swear I'll take it out on the man -
Who ever devised this economy plan.

All the love in the world - can't put -
Dinner on the table -
All the hate that I feel no love could put right

Good morning day, how do you do
I wonder - what will you do for me?
I should be on my way, I should be earning pay,
I should be all the things that I'm not -

And I've tried on my own, now there's nothing to keep me at home,
All the love and the strength has been taken by this Government,
You see they, tell you to move around -
If you can't find work in your own town.

Father's in the kitchen, counting out coins,
Mother's in the bedroom, looking through pictures of her boys,
One is in London, looking for a job,
The other's in Whitehall - Looking for those responsible!"


This Britain we live in today. Home ownership is a life goal. It wasn't before. There was no need. The whole industrial revolution was based around the premise that the mill and mine owners built houses for the workers to attract them from their cottage industries and fields.

You'd pay a little from your wage and then later from your taxes it you went from having a house for your career to having a house for life, so your sons could continue to fill the factories.

Post war Britain, we built on that. We expanded the options so you got a free education. At first it was to make you better workers for the industry in your area, but then later became more open and allowed those with a special talent to further themselves. Move into other trades.

Don't worry about trying to find accommodation as it will be provided and if all fails and you end up back where you started, don't worry, your old life will still be there. Social housing was never a stigma to be avoided.

Today if you fail, you sleep next to a drunk Glaswegian outside Kings Cross as you watch all the Porches drive by. Not much incentive for a lot of people to do better. And the tower blocks are all knocked down in favour of private housing that you'll never be able to qualify for a mortgage for, but nobody minds because the tower blocks were only filled with the desperate and hopeless who only ended up that way because all their prospects were closed to them by the actions of one woman.

Even recently, the local councils in London are trying to price the working class out of London to make way for the middle classes to move in. The London economy is now entirely based around the banking sector and that can't possibly ever end badly can it?

In the 70's, your life goal was to have a family and successfully raise them. Now it is to have as large a TV as you can fit into your bought home that is the size of a shoebox and isn't made of very much better materials. It's all about wealth and property.

What a complete and utter pointless goal. What ever happened to happiness?

People today can't even envisage a world where personal wealth wasn't one of the most important things. The entirety of modern society is all about accumulating possessions. It has to be, the rich only stay rich if you keep buying the things they sell.

“Choose a life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television. Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers... Choose DSY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit crushing game shows, stucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away in the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself, choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that?”
― Irvine Welsh, Trainspotting


Britain wasn't by any means a Utopia before Thatcher, but it was better for the masses than at any time in British history before or since. It limited how rich people became because the people who contributed to that wealth had a claim, either by union pressure or public. If you worked harder, your company benefited, you benefited, the country benefited.

It most certainly had it flaws, and there were still many in poverty but can you say that what we have now has changed that? That your personal taxes are paying bonuses to bankers that are crap at their jobs, but are vital to keep this modern selfish Britain upright on it's rotten foundations. And nobody want to admit it's rotten to the core because we gave away so much to have our possessions, we have too much invested in it for it not to work. Our homes, our fucking big televisions, our washing machines.

So we paper over the cracks. Each time we lose everything in an economy crash, we pretend things will be better the next time round. Instead of facing the situation, we've lose ourselves in some pointless mind-numbing, spirit crushing game show.

This greed our society now shares. it's the only thing stopping us from fixing things.


This is Thatchers legacy.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 10-Apr-2013 at 07:00 PM.

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To number 1 in the charts! Go, go go!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2807687628/?ref=ts&fref=ts

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@SpaceDruid

Thank you.

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote: To number 1 in the charts! Go, go go! https://www.facebook.com/groups/2807687628/?ref=ts&fref=ts

Maggie was allegedly responsible for bringing about the term 'class society'.
Congrats, you just proved you have none.

Rude!

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

This is irony dear Americans

Oh I sooo hope this was aimed at me dear boy because you are in for a shock.
Good post, very bitter, but epic none-the-less.
I get it, you think she wrecked Britain (do you even believe in it though?)

Has this been eating you up for the 21 years since she left power?
That's pretty drastic if so.

Rude!

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@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote: Maggie was allegedly responsible for bringing about the term 'class society'. Congrats, you just proved you have none. Rude!

Be it bit strange crediting her with a term with the word "society" !!!

after all she said in her very own words...

Margaret Thatcher Quote:
"There is no such thing as Society. There are individual men and women, and there are families."

The only thing she knew about "Class" has helping out her "Upper Class" cronies/ leeches becoming even richer at poorer peoples expense...

Guess there aint no "class" in showing your ignorance on a subject you choose to post in either eh...

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@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote: @SpaceDruid Quote: This is irony dear Americans Oh I sooo hope this was aimed at me dear boy because you are in for a shock.

Reckon SpaceDruids been round here long enough to KNOW you aint American...

No doub't he'll let you know himself...

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@Rudei

Quote:

Quote: This is irony dear Americans Oh I sooo hope this was aimed at me dear boy because you are in for a shock.

No, it's a general reference to Americans never understanding irony mixed in with a lame attempt at working a bad pun into my reply. I know you are Russian. Russian to conclusions, see? I did it again.

Quote:

Good post, very bitter, but epic none-the-less. I get it, you think she wrecked Britain (do you even believe in it though?) Has this been eating you up for the 21 years since she left power? That's pretty drastic if so.

Couple of things, bitter? She destroyed the lives of people all around me and you think I hold some kind of grudge? (And that dear Americans is sarcasm)

And eating me up for 21 years... You talk as if her policies stopped having an effect when she left office. A very large proportion of my posts talk about what life is like now, not 21 years ago.

I'm reminded every day of her legacy when I drive past the derelict ruins that once was the lifeblood of this nation and next to it an estate filled with junkies and no hopers that have nothing to look forwards to regarding employment because the company that used to fill these ruins with the people in that estate are now employing and housing people in Asia which leaves the local authority very little money to even attempt to help the people in that ghetto. The world gave up on them and so they've given up on the world.

Or perhaps I'm reminded when yet another meaningless politician gains employment with a large company after assisting them during his meaningless time in public service, a job he did, not to help the people of his constituency, but to further his professional career.

Maggie rewrote the laws to allow that, also gave herself a wage (not a modest one) and of all those around her to encourage this behavior. She claimed it would lead to better politicians as "professionals" would be encouraged to become members of the house instead of those pesky amateurs that became political because they actually gave a damn. And now we have politicians that don't have a clue what they are supposed to be standing for, voting on bills they have no idea are about.

It says something that most of the truly appalling laws since Maggie were blocked in the unelected House of Lords and not by the people mean to represent us.

So am I still bitter, oh god yes. Does it eat me up? Everytime I read comments from people hinting as you are, that somehow I'm over reacting or that she wasn't that bad... That eats me up.

Either you were too young to know better, or you were one of the people who eyes were too glazed by the shiny shiny bribes that you didn't notice her stealing your wallet.

It would be like going to Germany and telling somebody Hitler wasn't too bad, he rebuilt the economy (his was destroyed by foreigners as well) rehoused the middle classes (By forcing the undesirables out into ghettos) and improves everyones wealth (by stealing it from the people in the ghetto) raising living standards for all! (of the middle classes).

OK that ended badly with lots of bombs going off, the economy being destroyed, countless people suffering, wait, is it Thatcher or Hitler I'm talking about? Oh no wait, Hitler was the better person. He killed that evil Hitler person, shot him right in the head, while Thatcher had to get pushed out of power by others...

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