@BigD

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It has not been proven that this has happened in humans or other animals outside of the realms of viruses!

E Coli Evolution is a bacteria not a virus. Evolution is proven without a shadow of doubt in this experiment. E Coli that couldn't live in Acid now can. The Acid Living EColi cannot breed with previous generations. Species, being similar entites that can interbreed, has been broken. In so far a new species is born. Your claim of 'virus only' is false.

As for other humans and animals we do have indirect evidence - DNA and fossil records, which show this to be the case. We also have direct evidence that human DNA is mutating in ways which we consider bad (Downs for example) and ways which we consider good (SuperMuscle German boy). It's not far of a strech to think humans work as all other animals do.

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JUST THEORIES

Very sad for a supposed scientific degree holder to be using 'Theory' such as the common 'guess', instead of understaind the true difference of a 'Scientific Theory'.

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This is just theoretical science and very, very wooly

Ring species are not theoretical. They've been proven to exist and you can go try and interbreed them yourself and see it works exactly as described.

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Gulls, Warblers, Salamander and Euphorbia tithymaloides are not humans and this evidence doesn't prove we came from apes.

Approach it the scientific way and spin the question around. All you have to do is identify that physical component that exists in humans that makes us immune to DNA mutations. Something that 'Gulls, Warblers, Salamanders and Euph. Tithys' do not have. (Though I think you'll have a difficult go as we know full well people do mutate. Every birth proves it.)

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Even in the case discussed in the link they could just be very similar sub-species

The unique identifying characteristic of a species is it's inability to breed with other species. For example, black lab and collies are both sub-species of dogs. Why? They can breed with each other. Unlike the Ring Species of salamander, who can't breed with it's antecedent a few generations back.

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Then we can get back to the tread and consider the effect redefining marriage will have on our society.

Human family relationships should be based by love, care and respect. You and I are unable to judge if Sue and Chuck love each other more or less than Jill and Sarah do. In fact the scientific tools that can detect brain activity cannot see any difference in the activity or structures used between the straight in love or the gay in love. Additionally, societies should extend the right of self determination to individuals. So if Jill and Sarah want to get married then so be it.Your talk of this meaning we're going to be marrying inaminate objects is in short, just plain stupid! Your talk that your marriage is determined by all marriages outside of your own is unrealistic. And claims of 'no consumtion' by gays is ludicris. Again I'd love to see you get oral sex from another woman then try to tell your wife it's okay because it wasn't 'consumation'. If you're lucky you'll share Fido's bed outside for a few nights.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Aug-2012 at 12:36 AM.

@BigD

Religion is not normal but it occurs in our society and hence if any mention is made in schools we should most sensibly just concentrate on the issues that arise from predatory adults and the dangers of abuse from pedophiles or religious adults in unsuitable positions of trust or guardianship over these children. If the kids themselves have any religious feelings then it should be explained that is probably just a phase which shouldn't necessarily be acted upon especially for school age children. The damage caused by experimentation should be emphasised, especially the risky nature of the religious lifestyle.

Does the above sound offensive and oppressive?

@Rob

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Does the above sound offensive and oppressive?

Except it's true that there is a higher statistical risk a homosexual being a pedophile. It is also true that homosexuals have a higher risk of dying young due to their 'risky' lifestyle. I'd say our children deserve to know the truth rather than being peddled lies that homosexual marriage is on par with 'marriage'.

Study shows the link between pedophilia and homosexuality

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A new study by Dr. Timothy J. Dailey and the Washington D.C.-based Family Research Council recently confirmed what police and psychiatrists have known for decades: a definitive link exists between male homosexuality and pedophilia. The report entitled Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, shows that while homosexual men make up less than three per cent of the adult male population, they commit a disproportionate number (one third or more) of child sexual molestations. Dailey's report is being sent to parents, youth groups, school administrators, Catholic bishops, and religious organizations.

Homosexual Lifestyle Decreases Your Lifespan

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In 1977, the largest survey of homosexuals reported 0.2% of its lesbians and 0.8% of its homosexual males were age 65 or older. The Spada Report: The Newest Survey of Gay Male Sexuality, in 1978, reported the median age was 30, with only 2.5% over age 65. J. Spada was openly homosexual and polled 1,022 male homosexuals by mail. An openly lesbian M. Mendola, in 1979, polled 405 homosexuals by mail. The median age of those polled was 34, and only 10% were 50 or over. Source: The Mendola Report: A New Look at Gay Couples. From the mid 1970s' to the early 1980s, interest in Gay Bowel Syndrome, sexually transmitted diseases, and hepatitis B generated a number of samples of the homosexual population. - From 1977 through 1979, 102 homosexuals case histories were collected in Seattle and the oldest was 58. - In 1979, 101 homosexuals who belonged to a group restricted to those over 40 was reported, and only 21 were over age 65. - Also in 1979, 5,324 homosexual visitors to Denver's STD clinic had a median age of 27, a mean age of 28.5 and the oldest was 67. - In 1982, only one of 103 homosexuals examined in San Francisco was over the age of 65. In 1994, an obituary study revealed that the median age of death for homosexual males was 42 and for lesbians was 49. Source: Cameron, Playfair, Wellum, " The Longevity of Homosexuals: Before and After the AIDS Epidemic, " Omega Journal of Death and Dying," 1994.

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Study after study reveals that homosexuality, whether male or female, can take anywhere from 10, 20 to 30 years off of someone's lifespan. With all the attention on smoking, which the National Cancer Institute says takes from 7 to 10 years off someone's life, why not the same human outcry on homosexuality? Here's a behavior that's killing people 2 to 3 times the rate of smoking, yet nobody seems to care. In fact, we are encouraging and affirming individuals into the "gay" lifestyle.

This has big implications for child rearing as they would both be at increased risk of abuse and of losing their guardians prematurely if adopted/fostered by a homosexual couple.

Last edited by BigD on 09-Aug-2012 at 06:25 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 09-Aug-2012 at 06:23 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Statistically a child is more likely to be molested by someone you know than a random gay person on the street. We don't treat other criminals in the way you want to. For example, blacks in the USA may have a statistically higher rate of crime than whites we don't go around forbidding blacks from marriage (well anymore). It seems to be very one sided that you claim 'all gays are pedophiles', don't respect those gays that are not, and you give better respect to straight pedophiles as they are still allowed to marry. You may want to note not all blacks are criminals and not all gays are pedophiles. So, treating an individual based on a stereotype of the group is unfair and disrespectful.

FRC is a highly biased source. I'd like to see a study by an organization which has much less of a pre-existing conclusion.

Interesting study on the impact of AIDS. Since that time we have 2 proven cured cases of AIDS. And some vaccines of fairly good potential. And some very good life prolonging treatments. I'd like to see such a study redone now and in another decade to see what inroads society has made on this disease.

One item of note is while AIDS may shorten lives not all gays have AIDS. This means not everyone will experience a shortening of their life. And we clearly do not have laws that forbid people from marrying who have terminal diseases. Nor do we disallow that 90 year old couple from getting married if they want to do so. Clearly their married life is going to be shorter than that 18 year old who is getting married. It seems to be very one sided that you claim 'all gays too short lived', don't respect those gays that are not, and you give better treatment to straights who are short lived. For example we still respect the individuality of that guy with cancer that has 1-2 years to live by letting him marry.

Too bad you can't see through mote of hatered in you own eye.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Aug-2012 at 12:56 PM.

@BigD

You posted a claim from the Family Research Council. A Christian political organization who has asked for gays to be jailed. .. Out of the link to Wikipedia I posted backgrounding the FRC for those that might not know came this link.
Gay Myths debunked

It does a fairly good job at explaining why most of the stuff you are claiming hasn't been proven in the way you wish it was.

@AndyC

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AndyC wrote: @BigD For the record, it is entirely acceptable for members of civilised society to be utterly intolerant of peddlers of hate, ignorance and bigotry, such as yourself... I didn't think you could stoop much lower, but these last few posts have taken the biscuit! AndyC

I was preparing a response but that pretty much covers it!

_________________
Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@Frags

The real hate mongerers are those that hate marriage and would seek to destroy it! Our way of life and the building block of society should not be redefined to placate the vociferous few! The fact liberals and gay agenda seek to make marriage all but irrelevant is motivated by a deep seated hate of the monogamous married couple and the family unit. Homosexuals live free from persecution in this country and have all the legal rights of marriage under Civil Partnerships!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

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BigD wrote: @Frags The real hate mongerers are those that hate marriage and would seek to destroy it! Our way of life and the building block of society should not be redefined to placate the vociferous few! The fact liberals and gay agenda seek to make marriage all but irrelevant is motivated by a deep seated hate of the monogamous married couple and the family unit. Homosexuals live free from persecution in this country and have all the legal rights of marriage under Civil Partnerships!

Wanting equal rights for everyone is now hate mongering?

@BigD

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you are on very thin ice scientifically with little or no hard evidence behind your faith position and yet you discount the evidence contained within the Bible out of hand.

Two points:
First, the individual who is "on thin ice" is the one who fails to either accept or understand the scientific principle that is based on evidence, not faith.
Second, The bible contains no evidence on any matter concerning science, being nothing more than a collection of stories that are not even self-consistent.
To demonstrate the lack of consistency I will cite the so called "nativity" stories.
After the birth of the lead character, his parents went :
a) into exile in Egypt prior to moving to a town that would not exist for 250 years, avoiding the whole of Judea (Matthew 2:14, 2:22)
b) directly to Jerusalem, then on to the town that didn't exist yet, but commuting to Jerusalem on a regular basis despite it being where Herod and his son both lived.(Luke 2:22, 2:39-41

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Except it's true that there is a higher statistical risk a homosexual being a pedophile. It is also true that homosexuals have a higher risk of dying young due to their 'risky' lifestyle. I'd say our children deserve to know the truth rather than being peddled lies that homosexual marriage is on par with 'marriage'. Study shows the link between pedophilia and homosexuality

Did you actually bother to read this reply to your previous clutch of "polls".Quote:

Homosexual Lifestyle Decreases Your Lifespan

Apparently not, so let me remind you
"Please allow me once again, to correct the false impression that you are seeking to create. Polls carried out by reputable polling organisations on a wide sample range of the population, asking non perjorative, balanced questions show a majority of the respondents to be perfectly happy with the proposed change in the law. It is only the organisations that restrict their sample to like minded individuals, asking loaded questions that produce the results that you like."
The same differences exist between real science, and the Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Proposals that you dredged up to justify your persistent hate rants against a group of people who are doing you no harm. The main change that is happening in society is that people have started to think for themselves instead of blindly following the stream of hate poured out from pulpits around the country by bigoted minorities who believe that their invisible friend constitutes a majority position. The only "weakening" in society is that people like you no longer have the authority to have people like me tortured to death for saying no to your demands.

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The real hate mongerers are those that hate marriage and would seek to destroy it!

And again the big lie Nobody is seeking to destroy marriage. The real hate mongers are the religious extremists and fundamentalists who for the last two thousand years have been waging a war of extermination against any form of dissent, individuality, or even thought. In the twelfth century a religious leader claimed that mathematics was the language of the devil, and a few years ago it was a mathematician by the name of Turing who led the codebreaking that kept the Nazis at bay far better than any prayers. Turing was later eradicated from all of the books because of his sexual preferences. And despite your CRAP there is no evidence that he was a kiddie fiddler.

Last edited by Nimrod on 09-Aug-2012 at 06:52 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Rose

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Wanting equal rights for everyone is now hate mongering?

Introducing Civil Partnerships was the arrival of equal rights for the tiny number of monogamous homosexual couples. This however is the willful and vengeful destruction of marriage to fulfil the homosexual agenda as laid out for all to see in the Gay Liberation Front Manifesto, 1971.

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Yet although this struggle will be hard, and our victories not easily won, we are not in fact being idealistic to aim at abolishing the family and the cultural distinctions between men and women. True, these have been with us throughout history, yet humanity is at last in a position where we can progress beyond this.

Last edited by BigD on 09-Aug-2012 at 08:34 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 09-Aug-2012 at 08:31 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

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This however is the willful and vengeful destruction of marriage to fulfil the homosexual agenda as laid out for all to see in the Gay Liberation Front Manifesto, 1971.

So basically what you are saying is that because a group of people forty years ago got angry about the way self righteous sanctimonious bullies treated them, that they should forever be denied all rights and privileges, and be hounded to the ends of the Earth. I am only surprised that you do not call for a re-introduction of the ancient laws condemning all jews for the murder of your deity of choice. Some of the statements made by the black power groups at the same time were pretty ripe, but I don't hear you campaigning for the kkk, or have I just pre-empted your next outpouring of hate filled CRAP.

You really are a sad and pathetic specimen, if you lack even the ability to count the number of people posting in opposition to your vindictive poison, and comparing that number to the head count of your supporters on this forum.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@T-J

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Heh, five exclamation marks...

Good one, but I think that the one at the bottom of that page is more applicable to the nature of BigD's posts.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

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if you lack even the ability to count the number of people posting in opposition to your vindictive poison, and comparing that number to the head count of your supporters on this forum.

THIS speaks far louder than the liberal rantings of the uninformed '"you're a bigot" brigade' that seem intent on baying for the death of marriage on this forum. Needless to say the silent majority is with me and on the petition!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

@BigD

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@Nimrod Quote: if you lack even the ability to count the number of people posting in opposition to your vindictive poison, and comparing that number to the head count of your supporters on this forum. THIS speaks far louder than the liberal rantings of the uninformed '"you're a bigot" brigade' that seem intent on baying for the death of marriage on this forum. Needless to say the silent majority is with me and on the petition!

Indeed it does. After a year long vindictive and venomous campaign of FUD, misdirection and downright lies, your hate brigade has mustered support from less than 1% of the population of this country.
Now be so good as to either explain how less than 1% constitutes a silent majority, or preferably crawl back into your hole, pull the lid closed, and disappear

Last edited by Nimrod on 10-Aug-2012 at 06:50 AM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

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THIS speaks far louder than the liberal rantings of the uninformed

Uninformed?

Everyone on this thread has provided evidence to prove that everything you've posted thus far is false and yet you call us uninformed?

And you've yet to answer my very basic questions about geology. Your red herring about carbon dating being inaccurate (to the tune of a couple of million years - thereby you are at least admitting the Earth has to be millions of years old in order for this number to have relevance) is not an answer to the questions I asked.

Though I wont press you for an answer as you haven't answered the most fundamental questions asked repeatedly by various members.

_________________
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Google Translate

@BigD

Traditional marriage as stated by Deuteronomy 22:13: "A marriage should be considered valid if she is a virgin. If she is not a virgin she shall be executed!"

We call these types the 'Christian Taliban'. Especially when they say things that demand the death of gays

A new development in this ongoing saga. After receiving requests from the Quakers, Unitarians and representatives of liberal Judaism, the Liberal Democrats seek to free churches to make their own decisions on whether to conduct same-sex religious marriages, as well as introducing full equality of civil marriage. A stance backed by a clear majority of the country, according to polling.

Now we're looking at an ideal end goal for this issue as it stands in law.

Christian leader Pat Robertson says to Bring forth a baby or shut up Seemingly not getting he has exempted all men and any nonfertile woman from discussion...

Christian Leader, Imam? There is no difference here in their demands.