Hi everyone!

Just as the topic states, ever heard of "chemtrails"? Do you know what they are? Are you sensible to the topic?

I ask, because I'd like to open a discussion about it, but since there's a bit of controversy over this topic, I first want to see how much of interest there is.

Just so you can at least have a glimpse at what I'm talking about, here are two videos I shot between yesterday and today: Video 1, Video 2.

[edit]

Another video.

Last edited by falemagn on 25-May-2006 at 03:02 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 23-May-2006 at 10:38 AM.

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@falemagn

I had no idea what it was about reading the topic... Now, I'm off for some readings...

Jerry

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@AmiGame

Yes, that's one good site to gather information from, although I suggest you always take things with a pinch of salt... Be skeptic about it, but don't close your eyes!

Tonight, at 11pm, KNBC will have a show titled "Toxic sky?", details here.

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@falemagn

Maybe I'm a tad paranoid but I have said that I believe the government has been chem spraying us each winter for years.

Makes economic sense (to them).

Induce a virus into the elderly or infirm... Just about when they start to claim health benefits. Bump em off then that reinvigorates the housing market which earns the government revenue. re: tax on the sale of the houses and then probate (call it what you will but it's still death tax) and Reduces benefit payments.

In the governments eyes... It's Win Win.

It's about the money...

It's ALWAYS about the damn money.




cuckoo.... cuckoo ... ( Just going off to my happy place now)

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@falemagn

Funny you should bring this topic up, I've just read something somewhere where they have a theory that Morgellon's Disease is caused by an allergic reaction to the fibers from Chemtrails.

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@falemagn

The Chemtrails-myth has all ingredients of a classical conspiracy theory.

No facts, no evidence, and the fact that all reputable institutions (scientific institutes, governmental organizations, environmental organizations (Greenpeace etc.)) strongly reject this theory is of course "because they are all in cahoots together".

Somehow, I am quite immune to these theories, but they can be very entertaining.

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@polka.

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No facts, no evidence,

Except, it's full of evidence all over the places, including above your head. Don't tell me you never noticed anything strange up your head?

Follow the links in this thread, you'll find all evidence you need, just dodge the blatantly fanatical ones.

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and the fact that all reputable institutions (scientific institutes, governmental organizations, environmental organizations (Greenpeace etc.)) strongly reject this theory is of course "because they are all in cahoots together".

Except that there have been inquiries to the parliament, by politicians, here in Italy and also elsewhere, and except that, of course, such a massive spraying, if it exists for real, can only be done with the consensus of the governments of the countries involved.

Polka, I said be skeptik, but I also said to not close your eyes.

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@falemagn

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Except, it's full of evidence all over the places, including above your head. Don't tell me you never noticed anything strange up your head?

Eh, no, honestly. Never noticed anything "strange up my head". I must be blind.

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Follow the links in this thread, you'll find all evidence you need, just dodge the blatantly fanatical ones.

I already checked out the links. No, I have not found any "evidence" for these theories (which are very diverse btw!) in a scientific sense.
Or are you speaking about evidence for the existence of some trails in the sky? Then your photos/videos might be fine. But I don't see what's so exciting about them...

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Except that there have been inquiries to the parliament, by politicians, here in Italy and also elsewhere, and except that, of course, such a massive spraying, if it exists for real, can only be done with the consensus of the governments of the countries involved.

Ok, maybe if I would live in Italy, I would also be more sceptical about my government. How is it possible that still nearly 50% of the Italian people voted for Berlusconi during the last elections (although he lost)? That would be a more interesting conspiracy theory to check out.

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@falemagn

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Don't tell me you never noticed anything strange up your head?

Since when did you notice that these trails are "strange" and "unusual"? Maybe since the time that you first read about these theories on the internet?

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Polka, I said be skeptik, but I also said to not close your eyes.

I am sceptical, but I am not paranoid nor do I have a persecution complex.

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@polka.

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Since when did you notice that these trails are "strange" and "unusual"? Maybe since the time that you first read about these theories on the internet?

Wrong.

It's been a couple of years already, and I just got to know about all this less than one month ago.

As for the rest of what you've written, I can't really reply much to it, unless you try and argument your thoughts a bit better. For instance, try to give different explanations for the phenomena that you've observed.

But be ready for me to counterargument them.

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@polka.

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I already checked out the links. No, I have not found any "evidence" for these theories (which are very diverse btw!) in a scientific sense.

Fallout has been analyzed, and chemicals like alluminium and barium were found. Spectrography has been performed on the clouds, with the very same results. There's nothing more scientific than those tests.

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Or are you speaking about evidence for the existence of some trails in the sky? Then your photos/videos might be fine. But I don't see what's so exciting about them...

The existence of those trails in the sky is the crux of the problem, and they are definitely not normal.

Normal condensation trails (contrails) form above 30,000 feet, with a temperature as low as -40 C° and 70% relative humidity: outside of these parameters, contrails can't form, by laws of physics.

Most important of all, contrails evaporate, spontaneously, after a few seconds.

Those trails that you've seen in the video, instead, are at a much lower altitude, with temperatures and relative humidity which are totally outside of the aforementioned ranges and, most important of all, they last for hours, spreading all over the sky, forming artificial clouds and obscuring the sun. This morning the sky, here, although there were just a few clouds, was grayish, wasn't blue. You can see it from the 2nd video I linked here.

The fact you've not noticed anything strange makes me wonder: how old are you?

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@falemagn
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As for the rest of what you've written, I can't really reply much to it, unless you try and argument your thoughts a bit better.

Shouldn't it usually be done the other way round? You have a theory that you think is valid. In order to convince us with the validity of your thoughts, you present us some evidence.

Sorry, but the simple occurence of "trails" in the sky is no evidence that some "secret powers" are doing thought control, birth control or use it to prevent global warming.

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For instance, try to give different explanations for the phenomena that you've observed.

Phenomena? Sorry, but I said I didn't observe any unusual phenomena, only you did. So you should give us some reasons (even better: some real evidence) that the above mentioned "secret plans" have anything to do with those "unusual" trails that you are seeing.

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@falemagn

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falemagn wrote: Those trails that you've seen in the video, instead, are at a much lower altitude, with temperatures and relative humidity which are totally outside of the aforementioned ranges and, most important of all, they last for hours, spreading all over the sky, forming artificial clouds and obscuring the sun.

you sure its not human trying to stop the machines getting their energy from the sun, Mr falemagn ?

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@polka.

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polka. wrote: @falemagn Quote: As for the rest of what you've written, I can't really reply much to it, unless you try and argument your thoughts a bit better. Shouldn't it usually be done the other way round? You have a theory that you think is valid. In order to convince us with the validity of your thoughts, you present us some evidence.

I'm afraid we're going in circle, and I really don't feel like talking with samface2.

I said, follow the links to find all the evidence you need.

You said that you didn't find any evidence there.

I said, be more specific. What is that doesn't convince you of all that you've read?

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Sorry, but the simple occurence of "trails" in the sky is no evidence that some "secret powers" are doing thought control, birth control or use it to prevent global warming.

I'm glad you did a quick google search and skimmed through the page google spit, but you should really do a bit better. I'm not even sure you really watched those videos, since, rereading your first post, you said "photos/videos", when in fact they are just videos, and I can't see why you'd think they could be photos.

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Quote: For instance, try to give different explanations for the phenomena that you've observed. Phenomena? Sorry, but I said I didn't observe any unusual phenomena, only you did.

Me and something like thousand of other people all over the world.

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So you should give us some reasons (even better: some real evidence) that the above mentioned "secret plans" have anything to do with those "unusual" trails that you are seeing.

Since I've not talked of secret plans at all, I hardly think I should give you some evidence of them. I'm content with giving evidence of the unusual trails, and you are free to tell me why you think they are usual, instead, taking into consideration the explanation of why they are not usual that I've given.

Last edited by falemagn on 23-May-2006 at 02:27 PM.
Last edited by falemagn on 23-May-2006 at 02:24 PM.

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@TrebleSix

Yeah, it could be. Watch out, they might be coming to pick you up too!

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@falemagn
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Fallout has been analyzed, and chemicals like alluminium and barium were found. Spectrography has been performed on the clouds, with the very same results. There's nothing more scientific than those tests.

Any reference to a refereed publication in a serious scientific journal with a reasonable impact factor? I'd like to judge myself how "scientific" these "tests" were. Was it done by a hobby-scientist and theory-believer or is it a publication in a serious journal done by a reputable scientist?

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chemicals like alluminium and barium were found.

Chaff? Hehe, with all that aluminium in the sky, the planes would hardly appear on the radar anymore.

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Most important of all, contrails evaporate, spontaneously, after a few seconds.

No. There are many conditions when persistent contrails occur, that even become more visible after some time and form clouds or wider stripes in the sky, even when the plane is already gone for a long time.

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The fact you've not noticed anything strange makes me wonder: how old are you?

32 - I hope that is "old" enough for being taken serious?

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@falemagn
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I said, be more specific. What is that doesn't convince you of all that you've read?

Well there are many different variants of that theory. How should I know which one I should refer to when looking for so called "evidence" for your unspecified claim that they are "not normal"?
I mean, in which of the various theories would you rather believe, or which theory does sound most realistic for you? After all your posts, you still haven't said anything substantial about your explanation for these "unusual" contrails.

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I'm not even sure you really watched those videos, since, rereading your first post, you said "photos/videos", when in fact they are just videos, and I can't see why you'd think they could be photos.

Nitpicker. I was referring to the many pages where conspiracy theoreticians post their images. Yes, you have only videos on your page, I agree. We have some hard evidence on that.

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Me and something like thousand of other people all over the world.

Yes, and I believe in the flying spaghetti monster. Yet, I am unable to prove its existence with some real, hard evidence.

Last edited by polka. on 23-May-2006 at 02:40 PM.

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I wonder why the evil governments/the Illuminati/the ZOG/the martians always hire moronic advisors and henchmen.

Dr. Evil: "For unknown reasons, we wish to poison an indiscriminate group of people in a moderately defined geographic area. Suggestions?"

Mad Scientist Advisor #1: "Let's poison the water supplies, or infiltrate the food industry, or... WAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...." (Mad Scientist Advisor #1 disappears in a trap door in the floor)

Mad Scientist Advisor #2: "Let's spread trace amounts of aluminium and barium in the air at altitudes of several kilometres! It's not likely to have any effect at all, and it'll probably dilute and fall out in an entirely different continent in the end. Let's do it from publicly logged airplane traffic, because conspiracies and evil plots aren't any fun when they can be kept secret."

Dr. Evil: "MOUAHAHAHAAAA! Excellent!"

Nuts on the Net: "OMG WTF CLOUDS!!!11"

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Oh, bother.

@Seehund



"Film director" - is that your second job?

@falemagn

The 2nd video is just the trail of 2 planes, the first just looks like normal cloud formations, apart it looks like a vagina in the sky

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