Firstly i must say that i'm sorry for not being very active anymore around the AmigaWorld forums. Very little has actually happened around the Amiga scene.
At least that's the way i see it, and i must say no matter how cool it is to have the Amiga as a hobby system, i am expecting it to be a popular platform again, as it was for 20-10 years ago and which i believe Amiga can be again with the right vision..

I can always have a SAM440 with AmigaOS 4.1 and use all that because it's cool and funny, but then again it's only a hobby system. It disappoints me to see that nobody neither can nor will focus on bringing Amiga back as a popular but futuristic computer platform. AmigaOS still has a lot of potential, and still shows powers that are still unheard of in modern OSes. Ok, now Vista does multitasking, but is that the pre-emptive multitasking of AmigaOS, or is that multitasking because of SMP-support from x86-processors using many more than only a single core? In other word, a hardware-based multitasking? Why can't AmigaOS have what is todays' standard in a modern OS? True Java, true advanced graphic and sound, 3D-technology, modern multitasking and such things, and most of all! Why don't we have cheap, powerful and multiple different PPC-systems, as there are different x86-based hardwares to run both Windows Vista/7 and MacOS X?

Because of the pointless war between Amiga Inc and Hyperion violating the whole Amiga community, and nothing much happening during the development of a next-generation Amiga-system, i have started seriously to loose faith in the whole Amiga-thing, and i will now primarly focus on getting myself a 3-4-cored PC running a 64-bit Windows Vista, and probably a wireless broadband-system. The good thing is that this PC will have HDMI, Blu-Ray and many goodies. Perhaps Amiga could learn much from this?

I will of course continue to show support of the Amiga, but i am no longer holding my breath. I have been patient for over 15 years now, hoping for something new and revolutionary Amiga, but of course not, because Amiga today is only viewed as a hobby-system, and there is not much future into such a lacking vision..

Anyway, i wish everybody a merry christmas and happy new year 2009.

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

@Helge

Quote:

Why can't AmigaOS have what is todays' standard in a modern OS? True Java, true advanced graphic and sound, 3D-technology, modern multitasking and such things, and most of all! Why don't we have cheap, powerful and multiple different PPC-systems, as there are different x86-based hardwares to run both Windows Vista/7 and MacOS X?

Seriously, have you had your eyes blindfolded during the last few years? It takes a lot of money, a lot of work, and a lot of manpower to do all that, and where do you suppose will that come from?

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Here we go again....

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@Rudei

What a joke. Put up or get out. An Amiga OS on sale at the same time as new hardware!!! We've never had it so good for a decade! The Amiga is lucky ANY software is still written for it, never mind mainstream tools. This is not going to go mainstream unless we get investment of 100's of millions $!! In case you noticed there is a recession on and even when the Amiga brand was worth something the big companies passed the Amiga by, what makes you think Sony, HP and Acer, etc, will come in and lay down the 'greens' for gagiga-hertz, multi thread, quad graphics card support Amiga systems any time soon? Why should they anyway? The Amiga's only remaining strength is its efficiency and ease of use. A low overheads netbook/laptop computer should be the target machine anyway!

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Helge
Quote:

Firstly i must say that i'm sorry for not being very active anymore around the AmigaWorld forums. Very little has actually happened around the Amiga scene. At least that's the way i see it, and i must say no matter how cool it is to have the Amiga as a hobby system, i am expecting it to be a popular platform again, as it was for 20-10 years ago and which i believe Amiga can be again with the right vision..

Odd because i find it more active than it has been in years... We currently have at least 3 active projects going on including the natami and minimig.

@Helge
If you are expecting OS4 to suddenly become popular in a year or two, then I think you will be disappointed. OTOH, if you keep your expectations reasonable, such as a gradually increasing fan-base, leading to gradually increasing developers, leading to gradually increasing & improving apps, leading to a slightly faster increasing fan-base, then you might get lucky

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@Helge

Quote:

Helge wrote: Firstly i must say that i'm sorry for not being very active anymore around the AmigaWorld forums. Very little has actually happened around the Amiga scene. At least that's the way i see it, and i must say no matter how cool it is to have the Amiga as a hobby system, i am expecting it to be a popular platform again, as it was for 20-10 years ago and which i believe Amiga can be again with the right vision.. I can always have a SAM440 with AmigaOS 4.1 and use all that because it's cool and funny, but then again it's only a hobby system. It disappoints me to see that nobody neither can nor will focus on bringing Amiga back as a popular but futuristic computer platform. [CUT] Why can't AmigaOS have what is todays' standard in a modern OS? True Java, true advanced graphic and sound, 3D-technology, modern multitasking and such things, and most of all! Why don't we have cheap, powerful and multiple different PPC-systems, as there are different x86-based hardwares to run both Windows Vista/7 and MacOS X? I will of course continue to show support of the Amiga, but i am no longer holding my breath. I have been patient for over 15 years now, hoping for something new and revolutionary Amiga, but of course not, because Amiga today is only viewed as a hobby-system, and there is not much future into such a lacking vision.. Anyway, i wish everybody a merry christmas and happy new year 2009.

Are you a good programmer?

Yes?

Then help us to port the software that Amiga still lacks of...

No?

Then learn programming or help by contributing the bounties with some few of your extra money that you can save to it...

The problem in Amiga World it is time and mainly FUNDS, FUNDS, FUNDS...

No funds = no money to create new programs and new hardware...

Sure we need some good sponsors or venture capitals to refund the Amiga development...

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Helge

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i have started seriously to loose faith in the whole Amiga-thing, and i will now primarly focus on getting myself a 3-4-cored PC running a 64-bit Windows Vista, and probably a wireless broadband-system. The good thing is that this PC will have HDMI, Blu-Ray and many goodies.

Time for another signature change?

Merry Xmas Helge

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@Helge

Seek help.

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OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

@opi

Be nice!

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@All

Firstly, I would like to say that i am not a programmer nor a business man, even that i might talk very much like a business man. I am simply an Amiga enthustiast, as i always have been, still am and will as long as i live. My point is exactly that if we continue to show the attitude «We-don't-have-money-or-technology, and-all-platforms-are-too-far-away-it's-impossible-to-save-the-Amiga», then of course the Amiga will be even more left into the past, and will slowly but painfully die in the end. In the end, not even our great support will keep the Amiga alive anymore. Yes, the Amiga once proved that it had unique talents and powers that all took the PC and Mac 10 years to follow up, and with the right vision, right company and money, the Amiga can prove this again for another decade or even century..

It all costs a lot of money. That's actually the way business is driven. Nothing is free out there today, and if you want something, then you have to earn it. It's as simple as that, and that can't be further underlined. Did you actually think money was growing on trees? That's a nice thought, but that's not what real life is. The real life is a whole different picture.

Ask yourself this simple question: Do you want to bring the Amiga into the future, or do you want to see it die, slipping away and let PC and Mac dominate everything that is out there?

We all remember the time Commodore owned the Amiga. They actually had a lot of money and the right vision, the right spirit, to bring the Amiga into the future, but then something happened. They tried to investigate everything into the PC, and that weakened the company, and then everything went wrong. Perhaps the hidden fact is that Commodore never really went bankrupt, but went into the shadows and had to make a choice. That choice must have been to dump the Amiga, and that might be the reason why we still see Commodore around, but for the PC-market. I guess that Commodore never had quite the right vision to bring the Amiga into the future where it belongs, but they had money but abused it making wrong choices. Microsoft however is a very powerful company with millions of money, but would they care to save the Amiga? No, they won't. There is a reason why Microsoft has investigated millions of dollars into Windows, modern PC and Xbox 360. That's where the big money is, and weither we like it or not, they have become a great success, getting even stronger every year that goes. That is a clear fact. A fact that can't be ignored. A fact that will have to change our vision dramatically, if we are to save the Amiga once and for all. It's simply not good enough anymore to only look at the Amiga as a hobby system, no matter the fact that new software and games are developed for it, but most of them are ports from other platforms. Not native Amiga-programs made on the Amiga, which was once the case when the Amiga was popular, and you could buy it from any computer/eletrical stores, thanks to the fact that Commodore made this possible. This is no longer the case, and you have to special-order Amiga products, mostly outside your own country, having to worry if your product come the right way to you or not. It is also more expensive than buying a very cheap, but extremely powerfull PC that can handle the most the computer industry demands today...

I simply believe the Amiga can do all this again, but it has to be owned by a great, powerful company with the right vision, and a lot of money. A company that has the resources that Commodore had, but in addition the vision Commodore never fully shared in the Amiga. Who knows? Perhaps Amiga Inc and Hyperion Entertainment together could find such a new owner that can finally bring the Amiga where it should have been long ago? Let face it: Neither Amiga Inc and Hyperion Entertainment alone can bring the Amiga into the future. They lack the money, even the will, to investigate into the future of the Amiga. A big, powerful company like Commodore was, can make all this possible. It's as simple as that, really. It's quite logic. The unique strenght with the AmigaOS is that it's so compact, and demands very little from a computer system. That should also continue to be the core of the AmigaOS, but also housing the new standards you see in hardware and OS today.

Call me crazy, call me stupid, stubborn or anything, but still i remain realistic, and probably i might as well claim that i am realistic than most of you...

@Rogue

It sadness me to see that you and your company lack the money and the will to push the Amiga where it deserves to be. If you keep being so pessimistic, then Amiga will slowly die..

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

@Tomas

Quote:

Odd because i find it more active than it has been in years... We currently have at least 3 active projects going on including the natami and minimig.

Here i firstly meant i am sorry for not being so very active in this site anymore. Secondly, these 3 projects might seem a nice thing, but they are not any groundbreaking nor revolutionary...

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

@Helge

We all remember the time Commodore owned the Amiga. They actually had a lot of money and the right vision, the right spirit, to bring the Amiga into the future, but then something happened.

One could argue that C= never had vision at all (esp the C= after Jack Tramiel left them) and C= only bought the Amiga to stick up the middle finger to the new Atari under Tramiel..

Amiga was a vision of a select few, before C= got his claws on it and during C= a select few in C= knew and understood the machine (mostly at R&D), C= management never did..

Amiga died because of Irving Gould and the stupid power struggle he had with Tramiel and later Thomas Rattigan (who saved C= and made it profitable).. Mehdi Ali came in his place and we all know how that turned out..

No, Amiga wasn't ment to be under the care of C= at all.. Neither Atari, nor Escom had a clue.. Maybe, just maybe Gateway 2000 had a clue but they claim they didn't know the Amiga was for sale at the time Escom bought it... When they finally did get the Amiga, Gateway management was allready getting more clueless apparently..

But to be honest I'm pretty sure one of your next new thread is about how positive you look at the future of Amiga.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Seer

Perhaps Gateway 2000 actually could be the company making it possible for the Amiga to return to its' scene again, like you say. I wish to believe that, but the problem is that it never happened..

I do not critic the entire AmigaOS. It has become so great in many ways, but is too far behind Windows and MacOS. I mean to say that Amiga deserves so much better, but then the right company with the right money and vision is the only hope to save the future of the Amiga..

I can't be more realistic than this. From my own personal situation, i firstly have to focus on a brand new, cheap and powerful PC. When all that is in place, i can have a second look on this Amiga situation..

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

@Helge

Perhaps Gateway 2000 actually could be the company making it possible for the Amiga to return to its' scene again, like you say. I wish to believe that, but the problem is that it never happened..

And most people here realized that way back when Gateway ditched the Amiga, who ever snatched up the remains that it would take ages to get anywhere near mainstream again if ever at all.. As you have been told several times for the past few years..

And as Tomas said, even from a pessimistic view, this seems to be the best/most active year Amiga had in ages..

Last edited by Seer on 23-Dec-2008 at 10:40 AM.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Helge

Quote:

My point is exactly that if we continue to show the attitude «We-don't-have-money-or-technology, and-all-platforms-are-too-far-away-it's-impossible-to-save-the-Amiga», then of course the Amiga will be even more left into the past, and will slowly but painfully die in the end.

You are entirely missing the point.

It is YOU that shows this attitude (see topic of this thread). Not me. I merely have a realistic view of what is possible and what not. World domination and dethroning of Apple and/or Microsoft is NOT part of that. I have to go by what is possible and can be financed, and that is what we are doing (and more actually). Sure, Java and Firefox and OpenOffice and OpenGL 5.0 and DirectX 15 and what have you would be neat to have, but let's be realistic - not having that is not going to make the Amiga die just yet.

Having said that, of course the goal should be (and is, in fact) to move into that direction. This is, however, a difficult task given the limited resources we have, and surely it isn't helped by whining about how you lose faith.

It *is* impossible to catch up with major OSes out there in the short and medium term. Face it. We don't have enough developers to keep up with them. However, at one point it seemed impossible for everyone else to dethrone 3DFX, and later nVidia, and yet there is ATI and nVidia both trying to outdo each other (and none of them manages for a long time), and 3DFX is out of the picture entirely. Maybe there will be a breakthrough somewhere in the future. But not now, and not in the next few years.

That does, however, have nothing to do with a slow and painful death. It only means that things progress slowly.

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Seer

Quote:

And as Tomas said, even from a pessimistic view, this seems to be the best/most active year Amiga had in ages..

Actually, and I really mean it although I will not go into details, it is my firm belief that next year will be even better.

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Helge

@Helge
I think you have lost it.

No, no, REPEAT, LOST IT.

I am a new amiga user, my last amiga that was used, was my farthers first computer, and hence, in turn mine. A1000 with 1.3. stopped using it in 1995, in favour of games on pc. But I always hated the stupid orientated OS on it MS windows(that guy should be s*h*o*t).

So this year I bought my sam440ep with os4.1 in a nexus case. I ditched the xp ####box. I have not touched my windows system at all since I have gotton my sam440ep. (start of november)

SO, if amiga OS is so #### for you, in terms of it not being used as a daily OS, then I beg to differ.

I am using my sam440ep with os4.1 everynight, every weekend. Infact, the only time I have even turned on my linux ubuntu computer(AGAIN NO FUKIN WINDOZE)is becuase my camera's sideport is fuked, and it only happens to work on that machine.

Needless to say, I am typing from a rubber flexo keyboard(even windows had trouble recognizing this keyboard) via a 4 port hub(a hub that said its for XP, but hang on, my XP didnt want it, nor recognized it, nor was I able to use it on the windows machine, WTF) but this same HUB, 4 port, works flawlessly on my amiga sam440ep with os4.1.

My usb printer works, and os4.1 recognizes my webcam also.

SO, why are you LOOSING faith mr. Norway man??? U are probably a guy that is using amiga os3.9, and complaining about it, well,why not UPGRADE to os4.1, atleast you can use many usb devices.

For example, just recently, we plugged in a usb type of external Hard drive, and copied informaton from that to my sam440ephard drive.

I have also used various usb brandname sticks with no problems.

I also can use OWB for my ebay and paypal. BTW, I am not usng OWB 2.9 or whatever they are upto. I am using the straight out of the box working version of OWB that comes with Download support.

I am playing warcraft 2 and various other pc games on my system. And once I have hollywod 4(in development and coming out in 2009 january or latst february according to the developer) then I plan to investigate games like elder scrolls 2 and 3, dark reign, etc, etc, to have a quick patch of readily available games,(assuming these can be converted within hollywood 4) all this while my colleague and I work towards our own development for the amiga and morph platforms.

???? I think you really need to get your head out of the sand my friend.
I am sure there are many others in the world, globally that are also considering creating new apps and games for os4 onwards, sine they got new hardware that runs os4 decently.

Before this, yeah, it was dying, because there werent enough os4 users, but now, with os4, os4.1 nd os4 classic, I am quiet certain there wil be a change to that trend seen through out next year, with various development projects that I have heard of, read of, I think we can only hope they all finish what they started, including our freshly created website, planned to be online next year sometime..

NOw, I need to go to bed, its like 2am.

Before I leave, there is no guarantee that things will go to plan, and my colleague and I are freshmen, only things we have to offer is, he can program,and I like designing,which brought us to the idea to give it a go, and see if we can come up with anything. HENCE, why we have been working on a basic website for now.
Hopefully between the two of us,we get things moving.
Our website is getting there, and we hope to have it up and running, unfortunately,I am stil awaiting art effect 4, image fx studio 4.5, etc to even do any simply type of button designs even.

OK. night

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Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@Helge
Quote:

Firstly, I would like to say that i am not a programmer nor a business man, even that i might talk very much like a business man.

I doubt very much there are any who would use that phrase to describe you.

Quote:

Ask yourself this simple question: Do you want to bring the Amiga into the future, or do you want to see it die, slipping away and let PC and Mac dominate everything that is out there?

Are you pretending they do *not* dominate today? (You forgot Linux, another 'hobby OS' with more users/systems than OSX)

Quote:

Perhaps the hidden fact is that Commodore never really went bankrupt, but went into the shadows and had to make a choice. That choice must have been to dump the Amiga, and that might be the reason why we still see Commodore around, but for the PC-market.

Oh...my....god.
The 'Commodore' today is nothing more than a purchased brand name, much like 'Amiga, Inc.' DIFFERENT company entirely. Get it?

Quote:

Microsoft however is a very powerful company with millions of money, but would they care to save the Amiga? No, they won't. There is a reason why Microsoft has investigated millions of dollars into Windows, modern PC and Xbox 360. That's where the big money is, and weither we like it or not, they have become a great success, getting even stronger every year that goes. That is a clear fact. A fact that can't be ignored.

So, what if your 'facts' are wrong, already? Would that then qualify the rest are pure gibberish?
MS has *billions*, not millions. And both OSX and Linux are eating into MS' share today, so I wouldn't call it 'stronger every year.' With the large desktop base that MS has, it's not an overnight process, but OSX is gaining on desktop market, Linux to a smaller extent, and Linux is certainly taking MS server share as well.


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I simply believe the Amiga can do all this again, but it has to be owned by a great, powerful company with the right vision, and a lot of money.

Regarding that one, as well as your comment to Rogue. What *exactly* do you think would *make* such a 'great, powerful company' with a lot of money, at *all* interested in 'Amiga'?

1. As far as I know, neither AI nor Hyperion are up for sale.
2. The combined assets of *both* of those companies are unlikely to draw much interest from any 'great, powerful company with a lot of money,' especially in today's economic climate.
3. I think you *far* under-estimate the amount of work required, OR money, to move a 'hobby OS' into the mainstream.

It would certainly be nice to see a $400 OS4 netbook, or a $1000 laptop, or even, a reasonably priced system, reasonable $ for the performance. But, as long as we are building essentially 'special hardware, for a single miniscule market,' that won't happen, unless OS4 is ported to off the shelf, commodity systems, which means old Mac PPCs, PS3 (or GC or Wii?), or...x86. Or, we wait until someone releases a piece of PPC hardware that's suitable, and cheaper.

Old Macs don't seem to be happening, and I expect Nintendo might have words about an attempted port of a commercial OS onto their platform. That leaves the PS3, which even if it *was* a possibility, I'd suspect is very much not possible until court cases are over.

The other is more simple - software. There needs to at *least* be parity of common software, before anything else even matters. We still have no browser that can stand head to head, on it's own merits, not 'it's not bad,' to FireFox or Safari. We have no OpenOffice or MS Office. While we have a decent IRC client in Wookie, we have no *equivalent* for much other software - pidgin? Video Editing? Photoshop? USB2? Firewire? The list goes on. That alone should tell you something - there are far fewer people than are needed at this point, to make the above happen. That isn't discounting the efforts that *are* being made, but until there is at least *parity* with other platforms on those tasks, or some unique, truly cool 'killer app' appears, only on OS4....it's a hobby OS.

Quote:

Call me crazy, call me stupid, stubborn or anything, but still i remain realistic, and probably i might as well claim that i am realistic than most of you...

Crazy and stupid != 'realistic,' in my book.

You are far from realistic.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Rogue

Quote:

I merely have a realistic view of what is possible and what not. World domination and dethroning of Apple and/or Microsoft is NOT part of that. I have to go by what is possible and can be financed, and that is what we are doing (and more actually). Sure, Java and Firefox and OpenOffice and OpenGL 5.0 and DirectX 15 and what have you would be neat to have, but let's be realistic - not having that is not going to make the Amiga die just yet. Having said that, of course the goal should be (and is, in fact) to move into that direction. This is, however, a difficult task given the limited resources we have, and surely it isn't helped by whining about how you lose faith. It *is* impossible to catch up with major OSes out there in the short and medium term. Face it. We don't have enough developers to keep up with them. However, at one point it seemed impossible for everyone else to dethrone 3DFX, and later nVidia, and yet there is ATI and nVidia both trying to outdo each other (and none of them manages for a long time), and 3DFX is out of the picture entirely. Maybe there will be a breakthrough somewhere in the future. But not now, and not in the next few years.

Well, I realized that our continuous aspiration to catch up with the latest technologies and software makes us... I don't know, desperate? I mean maybe the differentiation is the key, just like the A500 was. Hell, isn't it what Bill is trying to do with AA after all? Interesting... well, maybe I smoked too much Merry Christmas

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Modern Retro Experience