If I happen to get another x86 HW, what CPU should I use.

With i chips one would get full 3D support in AROS from the onboard GPU, right?

i3-540 would cost 96€ (Sandy bridge, 3Ghz, dualcore, hyperthreding)
i5-3450 would cost 189€ (Ivy Bridge, 3.1Ghz, quadcore, no-hyperthreadig?, 3.5Ghz turbo)

I would imagine that i3 would give only slightly worse results when running single core AROS, when compared to i5. (+half the price)
i5 might perform better in AEROS when linux apps are run alongside AROS apps. (but the extra price does not seem sane)

Anyone done benchmarking on these?
Are they 100% supported in AROS (minus multicore)?


(planning to run LinuxMintLXDE + AROS + AEROS + UAE + perhaps windowsXP in QEMU)
(and by recycling some old HW, the total system cost should be below 400eur.... (no new HDD (unless found cheap deal), 8GB 1333Mhz DDR3, perhaps mini-itx board+case)
(hoping to reduce also power consumption ... from current 100W idle system power)

UPDATE: after going through my favorite shop's HW availability, the following might be it: " https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/cart/populate?products[25437]=1&products[13115]=1&products[44925]=1&products[21632]=2 " 310eur
For extra 40€ I could get a 32nm I5 chip. (perhaps worth the stretch...)

(I think 64bit linux is still unstable when compared to 32bit, but anyway getting 8GB instead of 4GB should be good investment in the future.)

I + study: i5 3450 vs i5 2400
Intel compare. (not every i5 has 4 cores...)

It seems that Larger L2 (+turbo) can give 25% extra performance (32nm i3 vs quadcore i5).
(not worth the 2x price + greater power dissipation, IMHO)
Then for my heaviest task (video conversion on Linux) i5 should perform 50%...100% better.
(If I would go for the i5, the price difference between 32nm and 22nm chip seem so small that 22nm should be the better because it runs cooler, even though it might not outperform i5 2500k)
22nm i3 is not locally available yet.

And when comparing our existing to HW (AMD64x2 3800+) already i3 should deliver 2.8x speedup in video, and i5 could give 4.3x speedup. In single threaded tasks i3 could give 2x speed and i5 3x speed.

Anandtech i3 (100eur) vs i5 2500k (200eur).

(intel-core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7)

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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Set a budget range and look for an appropriate chip...

Multi-core processors are a good thing, faking it isn't good at all.

if there is any support for Hardware virtualization... take it, this is a good thing for KVM support to make QEMU work faster...

@KimmoK

instead of that i5 get a 2500K as it will be cheaper now that IB is out

with a good air cooler and Samsung green ddr3 ram you can also overclock it easily if you are into that. a Z77 chipset mobo will also give sata3 usb3 and pcie 3.

_________________

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: With i chips one would get full 3D support in AROS from the onboard GPU, right? Are they 100% supported in AROS (minus multicore)? (I think 64bit linux is still unstable when compared to 32bit, but anyway getting 8GB instead of 4GB should be good investment in the future.)

Don't be surprized if AROS does not take advantage of the chips in a way that you would like.

I purchased an Intel chipset 64bit dual core board some time back and even though it ran Linux just fine it would not run AROS graphics in any higher resolutions than 640x480. I even got a 'recommended' graphics card and that was only able to boost the screen to 800x600. It is now my spare Linux box.

I recommend you have a chat with other AROS users before investing in something that may not do the job. I also wish people would stop promoting the myth that AROS runs on everything. It does not help anything and is the reason I do not use AROS today.

Good luck.

@Mechanic

Quote:

I also wish people would stop promoting the myth that AROS runs on everything. It does not help anything and is the reason I do not use AROS today.

Who did this, no one I know in the Aros community would be so daft ?

Aros in standard Vesa, no-sound, no-network mode can run on a large amount of hardware but as soon as you want native graphics, sound and network you must choose supported hardware.

Remember something that Amiga users forget, Aros has the biggest job of all platforms to attempt to support all hardware out there as in Linux, but without the developers this is a difficult and slow task.

If you want to get an Aros machine, do like you would with AmigaOS4, or MorphOS and buy a complete certified machine.

If you are technically competent then do as topic poster and ask

Personally CPU is fine, faster the better as only single core, just either get Intel GMA 915/945 graphics chipset or have an Nvidia up to 9800 series for best results. For sound have HDaudio on board which should work or add Soundblaster Live with an EMU10k chip. For network there are many supported but RTL8169 is a good choice.

Last edited by clusteruk on 29-Apr-2012 at 02:30 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@KimmoK

Would be Commodore VisionOS be a suitable subsitute for LinuxMintLXDE?

@Hypex

Without getting myself into to much trouble, as a Linux distribution it is brilliant, very brash but fun and some great content and applications, very polished.

There said it.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

imho, better a cpu with hyperthreding

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@all

Thanks for the input.

Before I buy I need to re-check availabilities.
When Ivy Bridge chips come more and more available, there will be some price changes.

(why not AMD? Because I would like to try new intel this time. And to compare.)

@Hypex

I'm afraid C=Vision OS would be too heavy to my liking.
(currently moving away from the fanciest distros, they make multigigaherz machines crawl etc...)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

While AROS doesnt currently support multiple cores/hyperthreading a quad core cpu will still be faster than dual core, and dual-core faster than single due to the larger caches they contain. This only applies to shared cache architectures though, which as far as AMD goes makes this rule only apply to pheom2's as they have a shared l3 cache (although l2 is still per core). A 6core AMD cpu will be slower than a 2 or 4 core cpu of the same family for aros for example (smaller cache for 6core).

Id hazzard a guess 90+ percent of pcs will be fine though. Problems people encounter are typically more user oriented than an aros problem. Its probably fair to say I've run aros on more hardware than anyone ever, and I've yet to find a machine I couldnt get working. Ive run it on 486's, p1s, p2s, p3s, amd k5, amd k6, amd-k6-2, slot-a athlon, socket-a athlon, athlon xp (thoroughbreed and palamino), socket 754 a64, socket 939 a64x2, am3 phenom2, s423 p4, s775 p4, s423 celeron, p4 s775 based celeron, atom/d, s775 p4, s775 core2 based celeron, s775 core2duo, core2quad, core i5-750, and i7-2600k. There have been a few times I had to hand tune a bios or swap pci/agp/pci express cards and/or ide/sata drives, but in 10 or so years of using it on literally dozens of different configurations I cant recall 1 machine not being capable of running it. Cyrix mk3 cpus though were a bit crash happy, but thats true on more mainstream oses too.
Personally I'd steer clear of anything but i5k, and i7k cpus if you was buying new, not because of speed, but because theyre the only cpus that arent locked, which makes fine tuning, and overclocking next to impossible (or at best very rigid).

In regards to intel gfx,unfortunately only older models are supported. None of the currently available ondie gpus are supported. Latest hd4000 is a completely different gpu as well, so there's no chance of it ever working without a new driver. If youre buying something new you'll have to resort to a dedicated card.

As for RAM steer clear of ddr3-1333, its usually slower than ddr2-1066 (cos of latencies and base frequency) and the price isnt much different than ddr3-1600/1866/higher.

edits: darn keyboard flat batteries, ergo typos galore :)

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Again checked CPU prices...

AMD FX-8120 3.1 GHz 8-core Black Editon AM3+ cost 177eur
They say it has turbo to 4Ghz and 16MB cache-

Would that be a better investment than a more expensive i5?

I think main handicap for AMD is the high power consumption, I would like to have pretty silent system.

anandtech
(a little bit slower than i5 in single threaded apps but about 2x faster in multithreaded things)
(update: i5 2500k seems to beat the 8 core AMD, though)

If I get another x86, I do not need to think further:
i3 is the only option.

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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fusion-intel-core-i3_8.html

FM1 plaftorm isn't bad in terms of power comsuption (at idle at least ;) )

I have an Athlon II X4 631 2.6GHz (which is A6-3650 with a disabled GPU basically). Of course it clearly loses at every not multithreaded benchmark compared to i3, but it costs only 60euro and i'm happy with it.

If you have monies for i3 and up go for Intel.

@KimmoK

You can easily run AROS on any PC, but performance and support degree will vary a lot. I strongly encourage you to leave the "integrated GPU" road, and to buy a discrete Nvidia graphic card instead. GeForce 7 and 8 are the best supported so far by AROS, and some models can be still nice at playing under Windows, if you aren't too much "competitive".

Don't expect to play DooM 3 with a integrated Intel GPU on AROS, anyway. GMA450/900 are too much underpowered, you need to choose Nvidia to gain enough performances. Newer chipsets aren't supported yet and there isn't any indication about the day they will.

A good AROS box may cost you under eur 300 if you carefully choose components, some of which you can even buy already used, for cheaper prices.

Or just speak to my friend Pascal and buy an AresOne.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@clusteruk

I have been thinking of upgrading my current Windows Vista Ultimate PC and donating parts of my current system to my Son, who is looking for something to run Guild Wars 2 when it is released in a few months.

My current system is:

Intel Core2Extreme Q6850 3.01GHz quad core
2gb RAM
Dual nVidia GeForce 9800GT 512mb video cards using SLI for 1gb VRAM
Dual Western Digital 300gb SATA hard drives set up as RAID-0 600gb hdd space
SATA DVD-ROM
SATA LG Super-Multi Blu-Ray & HD-DVD ROM
Floppy drive for connecting to Catweasel MK4
Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250 DVR
Creative SB X-Fi sound card
Dell XPS 630i ATX system case w/750watt PSU

I want to replace as few parts as required with parts to build a Hackintosh system, as I have grown to prefer MacOSX and have never gotten used to any version of Windows, but I still need Windows compatibility for a couple of programs that I do not want to replace, or cannot replace with MacOSX, or Linux software.

I would like my new Hackintosh system to also be AROS / AEROS compatible and ideally would like to run several OSes in sandboxes via virtual system software, so that I can run any software I wish without the need to reboot into a different OS. Not sure that I can accomplish what I want to do, but I have this impression that it is possible, with the right hardware and virtualization software.

@OP,

Great thread! I will be interested to watch you as you decide what hardware you are going to choose to purchase.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

Your current system is pretty cool if you ask me and would make a great Hackintosh and an even better Aros machine with the 9800 nvidia card.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@KimmoK

I've been waiting for Ivy Bridge to replace my laptop that died back in November. I'll go quad-core with hyperthreading, as that looks like an 8-core as I understand things. next choice I'd make is a quad-core without hyperthreading, as you have 4 full cores there. 2-core with hyperthreading has two real full cores, each with some extra stuff to make it look like total of 4 cores. But as a hyperthreading core shares some things between each of the two "virtual cores" there, it will not perform as well as two full real cores. So go for as many full real cores as you can convince yourself to pay for.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

Also, it seems there has been some interesting developments in hyperthreading (during the last 10 years, since P4 introduction).
Chip manufacturers have added more HW to assist hyperthreads while for example AMD has reduced some HW from true multicore chips (chips have several integer cores but share single FPU etc.).

According to freescale they have managed to get up to 1.7 boost when adding hyperthreading per core, because there's more HW to help the hyperthreading. To me it seems like solutions/compromise in between old hyperthreading and multicore designs.

Anyway, i3 has hyperthreading and i5 has not. As a result the speed difference between i3 and i5 is not huge, unless heavily multithreaded apps are run. And i3 cost 50% less. i7 on the other hand has everything (except GPU?) but it's price is simply insane, when I very rarely would have any use for the extra performance. For the system for my needs, focus is pretty much in low power consumption when idle. If I end up having it on 24/7/365, it's idle almost always. All chips wait for a job at the same speed.

For this HW I will not focus on AROS, but I have a spare Nvidia card (some FX card that should work with noveu drivers) if I want to try it out on high spec HW.

(unless I get totally pissed off with slow PDF handling on current systems, the investment will wait and that 300eur will go to donations, seems I finally manage to get my Paypal account set up)

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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

AresOne does have appealing pricing at Vesalia.
http://www.vesalia.de/e_aresone[7002].htm
http://www.vesalia.de/e_aresone2011.htm

I wonder why there has not been any intel version of it yet?
(comparing)

Last edited by KimmoK on 31-May-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK
Hi, because i like the letter "A" in AMD : p

We had today a talk about using Intel... possible is everything but the AresOne 2012 will be again AMD. Intel is an option for a mobile device.

Maybe also in a small MediaCenter.......

It is all about price/performance (checked under AROS)

In 2009 until end of 2010 i worked on a custom amigalike Mainboard based on a AMD refference design. This is why I stay besides AMD.........

Design is here, market is not. So we still use off the shelve HW (tested).

Now I am interested especially in ARM based 13" Notebook.. like the one from nufront.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CIgBELcCMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DluB2G2-CZPA&ei=Fz7HT4DKF6ik4ATr0a3WDg&usg=AFQjCNGKQ25qNzGCS_vMmVXmK4TqTdnpjQ&sig2=773truGgCkeg9398pMcIGQ

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