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      /  First WMA then WMV and now WMP
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PosterThread
Fransexy 
First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 11:41:48
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2334
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

Another attemp of Micfosoft for imposing their formats and monopolize the market:

Microsoft Shows Off JPEG Rival


Quote:
Bill Crow, program manager for Windows, said:

"One of the biggest reasons people upgrade their PCs is digital photos," Crow said, noting that Microsoft has been in contact with printer makers, digital camera companies and other unnamed industry partners while working on Windows Media Photo. Microsoft touts managing "digital memories" as one of the key attributes of XP successor Vista.

In his presentation, Crow showed an image with 24:1 compression that visibly contained more detail in the Windows Media Photo format than the JPEG and JPEG 2000 formats compressed at the same level.

Still, the image in the Microsoft format was somewhat distorted because of the high compression level. Typically digital cameras today use 6:1 compression, Crow said. Windows Media Photo should offer better pictures at double that level, he said. "We can do it in half the size of a JPEG file."


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Darth_X 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 12:25:45
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@Fransexy

Just wait for Windows biometrics


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Curty 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:03:43
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Dec-2003
Posts: 1202
From: South Wales. UK

@Fransexy

Please someone shoot Bill Gates!!!

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BrianK 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:09:51
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Fransexy

Yes limiting competition like this is bad. Apple's even worse for they do this with their DRM and unlike Microsoft don't allow companies to buy the format and make their own players. At least one can buy the Microsoft format and make a competiting player. Thus, you have Microsoft DRM and a variety of players whereas you have Apple DRM and the only option is the Apple iPod.

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AmiGame 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:21:46
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 3599
From: Peterborough, UK, Planet Earth (I think...)

@Fransexy

Quote:
First WMA then WMV and now WMP

... And all going to the WC...

Jerry

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Hans 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:25:44
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@BrianK

At least they will have a harder time with this one. Image formats have been around much longer than video formats have and JPEG/JPEG2000 is in all digital cameras. With video they created WMV at a time when people were still switching to digital cameras and video editing on PCs. People have been viewing photos on computers much longer.

I will be ok with this new standard only if it really is as good as they claim and they open the standard up and make it royalty free. Still, they should have worked with the standards groups such as JPEG to incorporate their new compression technologies into the next generation standards. The same with WMV, they should have worked with the MPEG organisation. Of course, then they couldn't call them "Windows Media" formats and control who uses them.

They're still living back in the 90's when every OS was creating their own media formats and trying to be the best multimedia OS (all microsoft's formats were based on Amiga's IFF though). Since then, most other people want to be able to view all media on their OS, so standardization is a better way to go.

Hans

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billt 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:26:02
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

I'm not against the idea of Microsoft doing something actually good. If this really is so much better compression than JPEG, then cool. I'm just unhappy that alternative platforms won't be allowed to benefit from it if they have made something so "great".

Last edited by billt on 26-May-2006 at 02:27 PM.

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Hans 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:26:42
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@AmiGame

Quote:

AmiGame wrote:
@Fransexy

Quote:
First WMA then WMV and now WMP

... And all going to the WC...

Jerry


WC: Windows Closet, or Water Closet?

Hans

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Hans 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:30:09
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@billt

Quote:

billt wrote:
I'm not against the idea of Microsoft doing something actually good. If this really is so much better compression than JPEG, then cool. I'm just unhappy that alternative platforms won't be allowed to benefit from it.



Yes. That's the main concern. Microsoft actually have people doing some pretty good research in various areas including compression and media technologies. It's what they do with it once the research is done that matters.

I don't like the way they're creating alternative, windows-only standards. I am very unhappy that they're killing OpenGL by providing only an OpenGL 1.5 with no extensions to DirectX wrapper for Windows Vista. I use OpenGL 2.0 so my software isn't going to run on their next generation OS.

Hans

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BrianK 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:54:00
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Hans

Quote:
don't like the way they're creating alternative, windows-only standards. I am very unhappy that they're killing OpenGL by providing only an OpenGL 1.5 with no extensions to DirectX wrapper for Windows Vista. I use OpenGL 2.0 so my software isn't going to run on their next generation OS.
Now we don't know this is a Windows-only standard. Likely it'll be similar to WMP where anyone can pay the license fee. So, if someone wants it on the Mac or Linux that company/person pays the licensing fee. Though this does suck in many ways. Sony loves the license fee idea Betamax, Atrac, Minidisc, and Blu-ray are but some examples. It looks like the last one might stick.

As for OpenGL2.0 on Windows it looks to be possible it simply is that Microsoft isn't going to do it. Open GL is an open standard so why wouldn't a company/group that promotes the open standards implement it? IMO comparing DirectX to OpenGL the former has better end results for the user any preferrable from a quality point of view.

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Zardoz 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 14:57:29
#11 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Hans

The OpenGL stuff is not exactly true... The difference is, Microsoft is providing people with an OpenGL 1.5 wrapper while earlier versions of Windows didn't have any OpenGL apart from an ancient wrapper. The OpenGL implementation is done in the graphics card driver. If ATi and NVidia can make a driver that will work with DX and OpenGL *at the same time*, you've got your OGL 2.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:00:38
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Fransexy

I have nothing against AmigaOS only standard but hate it when Windows comes up whit some thing new, but if you’re in to portability you should stick to the open standards.

I think it’s more important for AmigaOS to improve then say compatible whit Linux, Mac, Windows standards or what ever is out there, if the licences becomes a problem then do some thing else.

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Hans 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:07:12
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@AMiGR

According to Microsoft, OpenGL 2.0 will be possible if you can find a graphics driver that supports it. However, you'll have to sacrifice their fancy new DirectX-based desktop. Whether ATI or Nvidia can find a way to make them coexist I don't know. I wonder if they'll even bother.

@BrianK

Microsoft have already suggested in their announcement that they will license it out so you're right, it won't be Windows only. It will be "Windows-centric". Depending on thier licensing scheme, it may be difficult for small and free OSes to use it.

As for DirectX vs. OpenGL. I've heard people praising/dissing both. Apparently DirectX has improved a lot over the years whilst OpenGL development is a bit slower due to the big committee that has to ratify everything. Regardless, OpenGL is cross-platform; DirectX is not. Hence my decision to go with OpenGL.

Hans

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:25:34
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Fransexy

I wonder if Camera’s are going to support the MS standard ?
(It’s not all about windows, I think this new standards are going to as popular as rubber ducks, that my option)

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ronaldst 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:39:06
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2005
Posts: 495
From: Montréal, Québec

@NutsAboutAmiga

Why not? DVD players and MP3 discmans support WMA. All mp3 players except the iPods support WMA. And HD-DVD is based on WMV codecs. Window Media technology has great market penetration. I bet someone out there has a hacked iPod that plays both OGGs and WMAs.

If MS can make a better JPEG codec then good for them. In 2 weeks after, someone in the open source community will document the codec.

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Wol 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:50:39
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1003
From: UK.......Sol 3.

Last edited by Wol on 26-May-2006 at 04:45 PM.

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Wol 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:50:39
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1003
From: UK.......Sol 3.

@Fransexy


I'm not a fan of ANY lossy compression, it makes all photo's and movies
look crap anyway.

Nowadays compression is not reqired for photo media with mem cards being
huge.

If possible allways take digital photos "RAW" , that way the detail
is not lost, it's a nightmare trying to enhance or retouch a jpeg image
when 90% off the image data is lost...(variable)

Wol..


Edit: Typo

Last edited by Wol on 26-May-2006 at 03:51 PM.

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jorkany 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 15:57:22
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 920
From: Space Coast

Another lossy format, huh? I guess Microsoft couldn't come up with a better PNG.

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wegster 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 16:02:29
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@Fransexy

I have nothing against AmigaOS only standard but hate it when Windows comes up whit some thing new, but if you’re in to portability you should stick to the open standards.

I think it’s more important for AmigaOS to improve then say compatible whit Linux, Mac, Windows standards or what ever is out there, if the licences becomes a problem then do some thing else.


I doubt that you'd be saying that were you unable to open GIF or JPEGs on your A1..

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Zardoz 
Re: First WMA then WMV and now WMP
Posted on 26-May-2006 16:17:15
#20 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:
According to Microsoft, OpenGL 2.0 will be possible if you can find a graphics driver that supports it. However, you'll have to sacrifice their fancy new DirectX-based desktop. Whether ATI or Nvidia can find a way to make them coexist I don't know. I wonder if they'll even bother.


Both ATi and NVidia have publicly stated that they can make them co-exist. They will bother, because of their high-end OpenGL cards.

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