@T_Bone
Quote:

It's been about 6/7 years, it's about time to start talking about an OS5 anyway.

I think they should release OS4 before starting to talk about a new version
Funny how OS5 was supposed to have been released way before Hyperion had even started working on OS4.

OH No, not again?

TrevorDick

_________________
No, I don't need no reason, I'm just breezin'

@Jeffshepherd

Quote:

Jeffshepherd wrote: How about porting OS4 to my super duper whizz bang mother board incorperating A.R.S.E technology?

You want me to install it for you?

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@Helgis

Quote:

It's time to be realistic and everbody can more or less say that Amiga needs x86 in order to really be on the pair with Windows and MacOS X that now runs on Intel...

No, we don't need x86 to add to the software feature set. Adding Java JVM does nto require x86. See BBRV's postings about Sun porting Java on the Peg as proof against x86 requirement for that. Memory protection does not require x86, resource tracking does not require x86, multi-user filesystem does not require x86, pthreads do not require x86, Radeon overlay does not require x86, I'll stop here to save space...

The only thing that would require an x86 is support for the x86 instruction set/CPU. If that's not going to be done, then there is no requirement for x86 for ANYTHING in developing OS4 from the software point of view.

Quote:

Amiga seems to be the only platform which wants to only use PPC, even for desktop.

Linux, QNX, *BSD, lots of other things run on PPC. Amiga and MorphOS do appear to be the only ones targetting PPC on the desktop. But your wording said no one else wants PPC in any form, which isn't right.

Quote:

I don't understand why it's so important to focus almost 100% on the embeddet market for the AmigaOS4, leaving the desktop market more or less for dying, when it comes to the Amiga? It would be so much better if AmigaOS4 when finished, could be ported to x86, and there would be even more fun and a lot of x86 games and software could be ported easier and faster.

The embedded market has less obstacles to entry than the desktop market does. It's a place where OS4 could far more easily thrive and be profitable for Hyperion, give then real business reasons to continue improving the OS, so that we very few Amiga desktop users can benefit from a larger potential market than only us few thousand remaining fanatics.

X86 won't magically give us games or other software. X86 won't magically give us a lucrative desktop market. X86 won't change that embedded systems offer more possibilities than desktops do for possible market size. We'd still have the exact same software problems as we do on PPC, we'd still be waiting for Java JVM, we'd still be waiting for Firefox, we'd still be waiting for OpenOffice, etc... We'd be free of the can't buy hardware issue, but the issues that are purely software ones won't have changed at all. We'd still be waiting for OS4 ports of games and apps and stuff.

The only reason to port to x86 is easier access to less expensive hardware. That's it, full stop, don't continue, blah blah blah. End of story. Period.

Now, that's not a bad reason for us users to want an x86 port. I won't argue against the user desire for x86 hardware, as I'd surely find it convenient myself. There might be other reasons, such as if Intel's plans to be the best performance/Watt chip out there. But your particular software-category reasons in your post are not going to make a difference on any CPU, be it PPC, x86, MIPS, AVR32, or a bunch of wires hooked up to a chimpanzee's head. It's the porting of those games and apps to use the AmigaOS API that makes the difference, not the CPU chip.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt
No, but x86 can give us one thing that ppc currently cannot.. Cheap and currently avaliable hardware! Neither can be said for PPC at the moment.

@Helgis

Quote:

Having Hyperion to not even explain why they don't want AmigaOS on x86, is just simply patethic and the question might be if Hyperion does have a realistic future for the Amiga anyway?

You can find Hyperion's reasoning in old threads of this very web site. They aren't pathetic, they're just very very bored and annoyed at having the same old thing come up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again etc... Why should they have to keep repeating themselves? Maybe they could get a parrot and tach it to say their reasons and give it to you as a pet to keep reminding constantly.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt
The only reasoning i have seen is that they do not have a license.
Saying that x86 sucks and that they dont want to port it because of personaly issues with x86, is not a reasonable answer.

Last edited by Tomas on 08-Jun-2006 at 08:15 PM.

@Helgis

Quote:

If Hyperion is not going to ever port AmigaOS4 to x86, i'm sure Amiga Inc will find another company or partners to do the job...

If Amiga Inc. were seriuos about x86 then we wouldn't be annoyed here with yet another "why no OS4 on x86" thread. We've already got dozens and dozens of threads on the topic. Surely if AI actually intended to do anything about this they would have by now. Heck, if they were serious abotu getting OS4 on more hardware, we wouldn't be wondering if Troika and ACK have licenses for their PPC boards. If they cared, at all, it would be easy for those in the hardware business to get replies from Amiga Inc. to their inquiries about licensing the OS for any hardware, PPC or x86. If Amiga Inc. cared, they would not be handcuffed by their contract, a new contract would have been negotiated by now to allow more hardware to be supported.

As it is, either your email reply from Fleecy is something you made up in your own mind happened but in the really real world did not (same as Linux PPC is bigger than Linux x86), or they gave you a reply but lied to you, but I currently have not been given reason for me to believe that Amiga Inc. actually will have AmigaOS on x86 made by anyone.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@T_Bone

Quote:

So it's the ARM that got cheaper by moving from PPC to x86?

Yeah, I too was little confused by what Rogue was trying to get at with this conspiracy theory about Apple's move to Intel and the price of their iPod CPUs. I must have missed something regarding some price fixing conspiracy between Intel and ARM I guess. But I'm sure Rogue, or someone else here will enlighten me on this one.

Last edited by elatour on 08-Jun-2006 at 08:27 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@T_Bone
Quote:

So it's the ARM that got cheaper by moving from PPC to x86?

No, the iPod just had nothing to do with Apple's move to x86.

If you haven't had a Mac since the dawn of the 21st century, you might not recall the problems with getting Motorola to produce faster G4s and ultimately the G5. The problem became bad enough that Apple switched to IBM, only to run into a similar problem. IBM could not deliver G5s in the 3+Ghz range, and they could not produce a G5 suitable for notebooks. I don't think "cheaper" is the issue - products in the Mac line are about the same price as they have been, except now you get a significantly faster product. I for one applaud the move to x86.

It seems that Apple was dissatisfied with the PPC even in the last years of the 90's, because an Intel version of OS X has always been built in parallel with the PPC version. Now THAT is a contingency plan! Hmm, makes you wonder about another OS which supposedly is easily portable yet could never be ported to x86. But I digress...

Quote:

(I tried to think of something "Arm and a leg" related, but failed to come up with a punchline)

A safe one is always "Pull the other one, it's got bells!"

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@elatour
Quote:

Yeah, I too was little confused by what Rogue was trying to get at with this conspiracy theory about Apple's move to Intel and the price of their iPod CPUs. Must have missed something I guess.

Are you serious?!? I missed that post. Well, it can be confusing when smoke starts blowing out somebody's a$$.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@elatour

Quote:

elatour wrote: @T_Bone Quote: So it's the ARM that got cheaper by moving from PPC to x86? Yeah, I too was little confused by what Rogue was trying to get at with this conspiracy theory about Apple's move to Intel and the price of their iPod CPUs. I must have missed something regarding some price fixing conspiracy between Intel and ARM I guess. But I'm sure Rogue, or someone else here will enlighten me on this one.

Well heck, let's go x86 for the desktop OS4 to get the cheap ARM for the embedded OS4.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@jkirk

Quote:

sure some of the drivers are outdated or plain don't work but that is the responsibility of the hardware vendors NOT MICROSOFT.

Yea! Thats a good one! What hardware vendor is going to spend their time and money writing drivers for anything other than Windows. NVidia will not even give out enough information to write proper drivers for their hardware. None of the hardware vendors are going to do that. In fact it would be hard to get someone to write software for x86 Amiga OS when you can run Windows on the same machine. It is all about marketing and it does not make sense to write software for another OS when that platform that can run Windows.

Just wait and see what happens to Apple who are quite a bit larger than Amiga will be any time soon. Sure sales may be up with the switch, but lets see how many of their software vendors stick arround for a couple of years. Soon they will be throwing in the towel and just writing stuff for MS Windows, because the audience is much larger and they do not need to port anything since it can run on anyones machine. Especially if you can run Windows on your Mac. Also giving a boost to the already largest compeditor MS as Mac owners rush out and buy Vista so they can use MS apps on their Macs.

If your just sitting on your thumbs waiting for an x86 port, why not support AROS then? I really want to see AROS have some success. Could you imagine what would happen to AROS if OS4 were ported. UAE is nice, but you still have to use Windows or another OS to use it. Sort of takes the fun out of it.

It would be nice if you could just buy the Amiga OS 4 disk for $60 bucks and install it on anyones PC, but it just is not that easy. I don't want to start over, I want to go with what we have and improve on that. The CPU doesn't matter. Most people don't use all of their 4 gig processors anyway.

Or better yet, why don't we make Amiga OS work exactly like Windows. Then we could use their drivers and their sofware. Hey! even use their OS and

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @Atheist Quote: Atheist wrote: Support AOS4.0 with constructive comments or don't say anything. Support x86 or don't say anything. Geeze, some people think only THEY can critisize, and only THEIR opinions should even be spoken.

Hi Tomas, T_Bone,

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The trolls of which I speak, and comments I ask not to be uttered are the bashing of people and companies and HW and OSs' states.


Okay, Articia didn't live up to all that it was supposed to be...
The price of AmigaOnes was up there...
We didn't get T-Shirts or $50 discounts...
AOS4.0 isn't available quite yet...
No HW is currently available...


Sorry everyone, but we have to work with what we have. I can see that there isn't much there, but that IS how it is, until it changes for the better.

The trolling is when these problems which we really can't do anything about get brought up 4 times a month by the same people over and over again.


Their opinions' have been heard already umpteen times, and okay, thanks. I'm a recycled record too, but it's because the same answers are necessary for the same questions. Let's talk about other things, please.

@jorkany

Quote:

...because an Intel version of OS X has always been built in parallel with the PPC version.

When one considers that the work on a x86 version of the MacOS began five years ago (about the same time Hyperion began their work on an AOS PPC port coincidentally...in fact, Hyperion's been at it longer than that), then its hard for me to take seriously any suggestions that Apple's announcement earlier this year about a move to Intel was made lightly or purely for "political" reasons. Let's face it, was done for business reasons, plain and simple, and I can hardly criticize or belittle decisions taken by a company that's managed to survive this long in such a cut-throat environment. I'll lend alot more weight to something that Apple has to say about its own future regarding the Intel move than I would ever lend to arm-chair market pundits.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

Quote:

Helgis wrote: @polka. Put on great schedule, it looks like..or plans might have been changed... A direct port to x86 would undoubtly be necessary yes, but not by Hyperion, but from realistic companies that don't live in a dreamworld Dreams are nice to have when having a rough day, but reality shows the clear difference between fantasy and the real world

Hi Helgis,

Be careful with what you say.

The Hyperion Entertainment group of coders are not in a good mood (my opinion) and could walk away from it all if enough people start getting on their case, which is exactly what a few people on here are up to and will rejoice in most immensely if it happens.

They've done a tremendous job with the few resources they have and do you think that all the derogatory crap doesn't affect them?


They've been dragged through the mud countless times, by people who continue to post on this very board, even in this here thread.

So to everyone, pay attention to who's leading you on, and to what end.

@Atheist
Quote:

The Hyperion Entertainment group of coders are not in a good mood (my opinion) and could walk away from it all if enough people start getting on their case, which is exactly what a few people on here are up to and will rejoice in most immensely if it happens.

I totally understand why they are in a bad mood, because they seem clearly frustrated by the same lack of hardware situation and licensing issues as us.. Imagine all the resources they have spent on porting AOS to ppc and not being able to sell it due to lack of hardware to run it on.

Quote:

They've done a tremendous job with the few resources they have and do you think that all the derogatory crap doesn't affect them?

I agree completly. This is why i really wish that it could be ported to some hardware avaliable, so we could actually buy and use this great product.

I wish they didnt take forum comments so personally though. Most of the negative comments does not seem directed at hyperion anyways.

OS4 itself has progressed way better than what i expected featurewise and it seems like a huge upgrade compared to os 3.9 and could be more comparable to os1.x vs 3.x

Last edited by Tomas on 08-Jun-2006 at 09:00 PM.
Last edited by Tomas on 08-Jun-2006 at 08:57 PM.

@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: Be careful with what you say. The Hyperion Entertainment group of coders are not in a good mood (my opinion) and could walk away from it all if enough people start getting on their case, which is exactly what a few people on here are up to and will rejoice in most immensely if it happens.

I'm sure they're pissed, but people wanting their OS on x86 would probably be a very small part of that. If I were them and I'd spent years working on an OS that I can't sell because my business partners didn't perform, I know where I'd fling my poo at.

I wouldn't be surprised if AOS4-final has an easter egg similar to the one in a previous version "We built it, they ####ed it up!"

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@T_Bone

Quote:

Who needs pick up lines with a name like that?

Joking apart, I heard that outside Italy "Fabio" is a bit like the male counterpart of "Deborah" or "Luana" here in Italy... is that right?

Wait, how would you know that...

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@TrevorDick

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote: OH No, not again? TrevorDick

Dude, don't you think you're too late?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford