@Dirk-B

Thank you!
And sorry for the doubled work (oh, well, two links are better than one )

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Carl-S

Quote:

Where can I find the current vision for Amiga

The answer to that question would depend on who's vision for Amiga you were looking for.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: @ssolie Quote: ssolie wrote: [quote] I still believe the entire mess is rooted in a lack of action from Amiga Inc. They own the trademarks, etc. so they control the fate of the Amiga brand and everything behind it. We can point fingers at third parties but in the end, Amiga Inc. still holds the key. It is up to Amiga Inc. to work out the problems and move things forward. Yes, and I must admit that I do not track it that closely. So, please tell me, what is Amiga Inc's official statement in this area? Where can I find the current vision for Amiga? Is there a page on the website to describe it?

Carl- good luck on this one. many of us have been trying to 'figure out AInc' and what is real vs rumor, etc regarding OS4 for some time now, without much luck. AInc will make a vague statement now and then, generally do nothing whatsoever to back it, then go into silence for another year or so. There was an interview with their former CEO, Garry Hare, here on AW, as well as the more recent interview on Amiga.org.

The problem is not nescessarily in what is said, but the actions, or inactions, as well as what is NOT said, or clarified....usually followed by another round of silence.

Sorry...this isn't meant to be discouraging, just basically the way things seem to be. The 'public' generally still isn't clear on whether or not Hyperion was/is ever able to port to some non-desktop 'embedded system,' or requires AInc approval and/or fees there as well, even though their http://www.amigaos4.com site at least at one point gave the impression they were available to do ports. It's quite...confusing, to say the least...which certainly doesn't help much in any real forward progress, sadly.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Carl-S
Quote:

So, please tell me, what is Amiga Inc's official statement in this area? Where can I find the current vision for Amiga?

If you do find out Amiga Inc's vision could you be so good as to let Amiga Inc. know what it is.

Hi @MarkHone

I think Carl's question was totally hypothetical and was making no presumptions about the effort required to port OS4 to PC hardware. Viewed in this light, I voted 'Yes' absolutely - I have 2 PCs at home and would buy and install OS4 on both if I could.

I voted no. Why would you want OS4 on your PC; same question to Apple users?
If I'm running a brand new Dell Dimension9150 & WinXP what could OS4 possibly do that it couldn't? The A1-XE/G4 is at home ; the Dell in the office. I don't want the two together for any reason.

@ Hannibal-Smith
If you do find out Amiga Inc's vision could you be so good as to let Amiga Inc. know what it is.

Last edited by Snuffy on 27-Oct-2006 at 08:30 PM.

_________________

@Snuffy

Why do you assume that Windows has to be installed on the same box?

If there was an x86 Amiga I'd only use it for AmigaOS. I don't want Windows, so I wouldn't install it. Same as with a Mac. I'm thinking of getting a new Intel Mac (Mini or iMac), just because I could install Windows on it, doesn't mean that I would.

The silly thing is, from what I've gathered from reading various threads here is that a large proportion of AmigaOne owners (possibly the majority) have winboxes or linuxboxes alongside thier A1s anyway.

A1s can boot into Linux which is a more advanced OS with Modern web browsers, and Office packages just like windows, and yet no-one complains that Linux use is going to kill off AmigaOS use.

If people are dedicated enough to spend ridiculous amounts on PPC hardware just to use AmigaOS, I can't see these people suddenly stop using AmigaOS just because the box it runs on also could run Windows if they choose.

@lavo

Quote:

Is Rebol the basis for OS 5? Something's up, but I just can't put my finger on it!

LOL, I thought that I was the only one who had this evil little thought in my head.

@Snuffy
Quote:

Why would you want OS4 on your PC; same question to Apple users?

So I could run OS4.


Quote:

If I'm running a brand new Dell Dimension9150 & WinXP what could OS4 possibly do that it couldn't?

There isn't anything OS4 could do that the setup you mention couldn't. So your point of view is, unless you are handicapped in some way, OS4 isn't something you would use? Fascinating!

It amazes me that there are people out there who claim to be pro-OS4, but obviously given the choice between running Windows or OS4 they would prefer to use Windows. Now, everybody probably knows I'm not a huge OS4 fan by any means, but here's the thing - I have an x86 laptop right here. It is capable of running Windows, but it is not running Windows although I could certainly put Windows on it. Can anybody tell me why I'm not using Windows on it?

Last edited by jorkany on 27-Oct-2006 at 08:53 PM.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@Snuffy

Quote:

Why would you want OS4 on your PC; same question to Apple users?

Is this question for Wintel/MacOS users, or is this question for us Amiga users? Wintel/Mac users likely don't just now care if AmigaOS runs on their hardware or not.

As an Amiga user: I have an AMD64 laptop. I also have an iBook laptop. It's not possible to buy an "Amiga" laptop, as such a beast does not exist.

At work there's times when I'm stuck waiting for a computer job to run. Sometimes this takes quite a while. A few days ago our network was toast and we sat around all day, rented a DVD, but we really weren't supposed to leave in case things came up and we could get some work done. There's Amiga things I could be doing during these "nothing else to do but I can't leave work" times if I had a conveniently portable "Amiga" computer. I don't have room on my desk at work for another monitor/keyboard/mouse/tower/etc. and I doubt I'd be allowed to bring a whole computer system in for non-work purposes, and I don't have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/etc. to bring in withthe tower anyway, as it's through a KVM to share all that with the other computers at home. I can't do that at work because the keyboard/mouse are old Sum Microsystems things that only plug into Suns. A few people have newer Suns with USB things, but I'm on the half of the office that has the antique workstations. That I have one of the "better" antiques is irrelevant, it's still incompatible with KVMs.

A laptop would be easier to carry around, wouldn't take over half my desk at work, wouldn't be so obviously out of place at work, etc. Since the other two approaches I've tried for my "Amiga laptop" goal were turned down (Mac laptops, then new custom design), what other possibilties are there for an "Amiga laptop"?? Carl is just learning that x86 is a no-no. I guess there was a Sparc laptop some time ago, but that probably has at least the same "documentation problem" as Macs have. And with that, I'm out of ideas for laptops.

Last edited by billt on 27-Oct-2006 at 09:00 PM.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@Carl-S

Thanks for staying interested Carl. It means a lot to everyone left around here.

A few more thoughts on the original poll/post:

CPU:
I don't care what it is. So long as it runs OS4, I don't even have to know what it is. Pour hot rubber on the mobo to hide it. Don't bother advertising it to end users, if it will cause confusion or consternation.

Endianess:
So long as it works, I don't care.Surely the speed of modern CPUs vs 68000 would allow universal translation to operate at an acceptable speed. Whatever the solution, just make it transparent (like Rosetta).

On "too much HW to support":
Pick a mobo and all supporting chipsets. Lock it in. Use the Trusted Platform module, or whatever "lock-in" method Apple has used.

To me Amiga is a platform much like Palm. The Palm OS/brand is strong, and buyers never questioned which processor was under the hood. The integration was tight, the HW/SW combo worked, so who cared?

Much more important than CPU are questions of input/output and tools. These are what really define usability, interoperability and user-upgradability.

- A new Amiga must support hardware I/O of USB/Firewire/SATA/802.11XX.

- On the S/W side, it must have a modern web browser, PDF reading/writing and MS Office filters.

With this set of HW and SW exchanges, I could use an Amiga as my everyday machine, and so could my wife.

@Carl-S

Quote:

Where can I find the current vision for Amiga?

Some people would say that Amiga's vision is to sell puzzle and casino games for cellphones/PDAs that run Windows CE/Pocket/whatever, and at the same time to neglect their "traditional" AmigaOS IP pretty much in every way you can possibly neglect something.

Other people have been telling us for a couple years that Amiga Inc. was a folder in someone's filing cabinet and nothing more than that. I was beginning to believe that myself, but then they suprised us by buying that company in India, supporting the Samantha motherboard project, answering questions from the community, and suddenly appearing to exist again in something that might resemble a functional form.

I doubt anyone in the public Amiga community really has any clue what's actually going on at Amiga Inc.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@saimo

Quote:

saimo wrote: I guess that reading the Q&A session I linked in the previous post will be a problem for you (it's 25 questions spanning 3 pages of news item)... but I think that it's worthwhile, as it sketches a quite good picture of the (messed up) situation and of the official future plans as disclosed to the public.

I did read it! Thanks for the link.

I'm sure Bill is just being careful there.

I'm sure we will hear more from Amiga Inc. soon.

Update: I just read the other link (the Sept 13 Interview). It is a lot more informative and detailed than the more recent one (Oct). Bill is very open about it. It was great to read.

Last edited by Carl-S on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:22 PM.
Last edited by Carl-S on 27-Oct-2006 at 10:51 PM.

_________________
When replying, please keep it short and sweet, and I will read it. If it is long, I read only the first few lines to decide if I want to read the rest.

@jorkany

Quote:

Can anybody tell me why I'm not using Windows on it?

You don't really like Windows, just often have to use it ?
You are not keen on using "Embrace, Extend and Enslave" products ?
You boycott Microsoft and its very own "freedom to innovate" ?
You are monopolyphobiac ?
...

Don't be worry, you are not ill, just maybe extra-lucid.

@Carl-S

Quote:

I did read it!

Well, lemme tell ya: you must really be interested... I understand the father-daughter (Carl-Amiga) feeling, but I hope there is more than that . It would be a wonderful plus having you back in the game!

Quote:

Thanks for the link.

Don't mention it...

Quote:

I found myself wanting more from it.

Probably the same feeling of many others... only that every time one reads that kind of stuff, cannot but wonder what's real, what's dream and what's just false. I guess you are new to this, but in these long years of limbo, we Amigans have been through similar stories way too many times, so those words have a much different taste in our mouths.

Quote:

I'm sure Bill is just being careful there.

No doubt about it! I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the visionary concepts expressed, in the light of the nothingness of what has been done until done.
It seems that AInc now is somewhat more concrete than before, but that's just too little. What we need now is a clear and effective plan to push AOS4 to the fullest. Hyperion and third parties seem to be doing that, I hope AInc partecipates at the best of its possibilities.

Quote:

I must admit, I've never really understood the secrecy thing that many companies have going. Yes, I understand the legal/patent/trade secret issues, but your customers and community are a critical part of your plans. Early feedback is valuable.

Yes... although the Amigans feedback nowadays is a mix of *everything*... you should have learned that from the threads you started

Quote:

I'm sure we will hear more from Amiga Inc. soon.

Let's hope so (with positive news, of course ).

edit: make sure you don't miss McEwen's message at the Pianeta Amiga.

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 27-Oct-2006 at 10:12 PM.

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Carl-S

Quote:

I found myself wanting more from it.

Here is the followup/clarification from Bill as a direct result of the "25 answers"
thread you already perused:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6970

In case you wish the examine the orginal thread concerning the submission of the
25 questions, to further understand the scope of the issues:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6929

Quote:

I'm sure we will hear more from Amiga Inc. soon.

I concur.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Snuffy

Quote:

Yeh, what was the original point?

Really that curious? I responded to this original thread much earlier on if you missed it. Check the first few pages. In this follow up post I misread one of the messages and responded. Immeditately after submitting, I realized my reply had no relavence to the message I misread and zapped it. Exciting eh? That's why I didn't bother with a lenghty explanation in the first place.

@thread

Sorry, carry on with the real thread now.

Plaz

@saimo

I just realized that I made a mistake, and I wanted to correct it:

Earlier, I was referring to the October 4th Interview. But, the September 13th Interview is much more detailed (quite long in fact). I think Bill does a good job of explaining the situation. (Sorry about the mix up.)

I strongly urge you to skip to the end and read Bill's personal note. It looks like an excellent summary and should clear up many questions.

Last edited by Carl-S on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:16 PM.

_________________
When replying, please keep it short and sweet, and I will read it. If it is long, I read only the first few lines to decide if I want to read the rest.

@Fransexy

Quote:

This meant 10 Wats more at 0,2 GHZ less then MPC8641D is better

AMD measures at max power not typical power. Within 35watts, it includes NB/MCH clocked at core speed (unlike 667Mhz), VT instructions (includes VT IOMMU HW), 64bit computing (pointers and ‘etc’).

By the time Q1 2007 arrives, Freescale will be competing with AMD’s 65nm SOI DSL parts. Careful with current vs future comparisons.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:17 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:13 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Snuffy

Quote:

I voted no. Why would you want OS4 on your PC; same question to Apple users?

The same reason I just found myself finally buying a MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo- I can run anything I need on it- 32 or 64 Linux, OS X, XP, or even Vista, either by booting into it, OR via a Virtual machine.

'What I want or need, I can now run on the hardware I have.'

I can get rid of my workstation as well as my work laptop, and work in whichever environment I either need to (work), or choose to (not at work..ok, and at work.. ). I no longer need 'additional systems' to cover those needs. It's a nice thing.

I'd certainly keep my 3.2GHz workstation IF I could buy, and run, OS4 on it. I'd also keep my dual G4 PowerMac IF I could buy and run OS4 on it. But, instead, I have a $$$ A1, which really isn't useful to me for Linux or anything other than OS4, yet cost me nearly as much or more as my Macbook Pro. I'm left hoping that some 'better, other hardware solution' will appear that at least won't cost AS much, but yet, why _shouldn't_ it run on 'what I have?' Everything else (literally) now will, which is a HUGE convenience to me...

*shrug* I really don't mind _some_ 'premium' $$ to run OS4...otherwise, I wouldn't have spent ~ $2k on my A1. I'd _still_ buy an Amy, Sam (maybe) or Panda if they're not insanely priced...yet, there are plenty of others that would instead ask,' Why?' Or decide that that amount of $ is simply insane for them to spend on a 'hobby OS.' Different people have different desires as well as pocketbooks, and/or place different values on things...and I can certainly see the point of those asking,' Why spend $1000+ for inferior hardware that isn't better than what I paid $500 (or however much) for?'

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Carl-S

Quote:

I just realized that I made a mistake, and I wanted to correct it: Earlier, I was referring to the October 4th Interview. But, the September 13th Interview is much more detailed (quite long in fact).

That's OK.

Quote:

I think Bill does a good job of explaining the situation.

So do I. The point is that we're now at a point where explanations matter little to nothing... we need facts - i.e. a full/proper support and promotion of AOS4.

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:21 PM.

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC