@Carl-S

Here's a good candidate for an OS4x86 laptop - Dell's upcoming < $500 laptop, with an AMD CPU. I bet it's a lot more powerful than my A1XE with a 933MHz G4.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 27-Oct-2006 at 11:28 PM.

@Carl-S

A lot of people mention Amiga OS4 having no apps so I thought I'd list whats available or being developed. Some these you'll know about already and other you may not. I know it's not on topic but I hope you find it interesting.

Hollywood is powerful multimedia programming language similar to Scala on the 68k Amigas but from what I've read, much more versatile. Designer is the WYSIWYG editor for Hollywood. Together these two programs could make good sales in certain markets that traditionally belonged to the Amiga.

Pagestream is currently in beta for OS4.

Audio Evolution is a hard disk recording program.

Candy factory 2 allows you to create some really nice logo imgages very quickly. The original version was particularly impressive because it allowed you to apply effects such as light positioning in realtime on a 68k Amiga.
There is currently no site for this app but there are some screenshots on this site. The developer ZeoNeo have also produced a few high quality games for Amiga Anywhere/DE.

Bit By Bit software run by Jamie Krueger is bringing professional development tools to the Amiga.

Amiga Dealer Guru Meditation are currently porting Directory Opus Magellan to OS4 under licence from GP Soft. I belive was mentioned recently that they where making good progress. The freeware Directory Opus 4 (my favorite file manager) is also available for OS4.

Hyperion obtained a licence for Realsoft 3d some time ago. I'm not sure whether work has started on this yet.

There are probably a few others that I forgot and a wealth of compatable 68k apps, some of which are still available to buy. There is also some very good freeware including Bar&Pipes and the Deluxe paint clone Perfect Paint.

@COBRA

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @COBRA No, I didn't have that problem. Also note I said MacBook versus PowerBook. Not MacBook Pro. :) Same processor though.

Factor in GPU’s power consumption e.g. AMD Radeon X1600 Mobile vs Intel GMA…

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@COBRA

Quote:

Not to mention that the Turion X2 has only 333MHz DDR2 controller (as opposed to 667MHz on the MPC8641D)

Turion X2 (Socket S1) supports the same DDR-2 667 (effective MHz via DDR methods) memory module as Intel's Core 2 Mobile.

"DDR" is only applied at interface points. AMD K8's MCH controllers’ clocks @ core speed (i.e. NBMCH memory buffer pipeline) but their external interface clocks to the target memory speed and signal type (DDR).

Fastest clock speed for K8’s MCH was during DDR-2 ~1000 overclocking.
The limitation is with the memory module and the external wiring.

Also, the two G4+ cores (in MPC8641D) shares 667Mhz internal (MPX) 64bit FSB,
while the two K8 cores has separate point-to-point links to NB (internal).

"=" full duplex.
[K8] === [NB], non-shared internal FSB .
[K8] === [NB]

[e600]---| ____ [NB], shared internal FSB.
[e600]---|

Atm, competition for AMD’s K8 NB/MCH architecture comes from IBM’s POWER5+ NB/MCH architecture.

Quote:

and AFAIK no PCI-Express controller, thus it still requires a northbridge for that.

Em.. A "tunnel" chip.

AMD PCI-Express controller can range from RD580 (8 watts max power)'s i.e. dual PCI-E 16X to RD480’s single PCI-E 16X + 4X.

I recall, MPC8641D is equipped with dual PCI-E 8X.

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_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: I've always found it interesting how these patterns emerge. Such things go in waves. (I see the similar types of "simultaneous events" on the REBOL channels.) Don't read too much into it or draw any conclusions. (See Jens Schönfeld AmiWest dinner banquet presentation for a very good point.) My visit to AmiWest was to find new Amiga HW and catch up in general. The timing was right because the normal October REBOL DevCon was moved to Paris in May. I don't know what OS 5 is, but unless it ships next month, I think OS 4 should remain the focus, and how to bring a much larger group of people to the Amiga experience, via the topic/poll of this forum.

Thanks for burying another conspiracy theory

Its just that the OS4/x86 thread has been done to death on this forum (albiet in a less civilised fashion!). The only thing missing is someone from Hyperion telling everyone that x85 OS 4 is not going to happen.

I think Steve Jobs nailed on the head when Apple made the switch. What made Apple experience wasn't the hardware, it was the OS. People don't care what is underneath, as long as they get the same experience each time they turn the computer on.

@Carl-S

First off, it is a pleasure to see you posting on AmigaWorld.

As to your 'test' survey, I voted "eventually" It would be nice to be able to use a pc laptop as an OS4 Amiga. I have an AmigaOne XE and am quite happy with it hardware-wise and performance-wise. Mine has not been problematic like some have. If OS4 were to move to x86, rather than have mediocre support for a range of pc motherboards, sound cards and graphic cards, etc.; I would like to see one high-quality carefully designed desktop system and a related laptop with a narrow range of sound and graphic cards options - with OS4 optimised to take full and best advantage of the hardware. If Amiga OS 4 can do this better than Windows, Mac OS or any linux that could be a major selling point.

-BCP
Amiga Response Crew Users Group
Indianapolis, IN USA

_________________
- BCP
AmigaOne X1000 & Amiga 4000

Amiga Response Crew Users Group
Indianapolis, IN USA

Mac is a good example - of closed hardware. OSX on any PC is unlikely for a long time. x86 Macs have added something to the experience though, Windows compatibility.

It really depends on the target market - no user cares really, other than developers and manufacturers.

Ask yourself why Microsoft went through the pain of Xbox x86 to Xbox 360 PPC...

Guys.

IMHO the conversation is getting too focused on the x86 vs PPC CPUs.
No need to pick a side, it doesn't have to be "either or" you know?

Assuming both x86 and PPC versions of the OS existed, if someone wanted to buy a machine with a PPC or x86 (or even Transmeta chip, now there's an idea), it's their choice, computing needs, and especially their money, not yours...

Each technology has its merits and limitations, that's why different industries rely on different CPUs to get the job done.

Last but not least, the other questions have barely been answered:

Quote:

2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box. How would you feel about that?

I dare anyone to rationally explain how that wouldn't be great.
(okay.. so maybe there's no point answering that one since it's a given)
Quote:

How many of us would be building new applications, new games, porting over good software, selling PC/OS4 packages, integrating new hardware, putting OS4 into schools, and ... you get the idea...

That's an interesting question. IMHO it wouldn't make any difference, we all like our OS with a passion so no matter what it runs on we'd keep pushing it wherever we can.
Quote:

How many would still wait for PPC hardware?

Actually there's no shortage of PPC hardware.

Aside from the upcoming Sam, there's the existing supply from Genesi so it's only a shortage of licenses, and that issue would plague the x86 hardware all the same.

Until the licenses are granted without major obstacles we'll be waiting on both CPUs...
Hopefully AInc. realizes that it's counter-productive to make it difficult to give them money

Last edited by AmigAlex on 28-Oct-2006 at 04:45 AM.

_________________
AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Bobsonsirjonny wrote: Could Carl have also been asked to write the kernal for OS 5? /conspiracy mode off.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Will we ever know.

@Carl-S
Don't know if it's already been said but a windozeemulator would nevertheless be nice.

Last edited by KingKong on 28-Oct-2006 at 07:47 AM.

@number6

It seems that this link would also be important:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3315

I.E. Hyperion's position . . .

@Carl-S

Well I'm sure you are aware of Amithlon which ran OS 3.9 extremely fast on modern PC hardware (at the time). Anyway, that was a great product with great potential....I won't go into why it failed, but you can guess.

Anyway, as others pointed out, as a single user I can't do anything about it. For me, personally, I would have chosen X86 right from the start. Maybe in 1997 PPC was the right choice for the "PowerAmiga", but I think X86 is the way to go looking forward.

Why don't you get an OS4 license for X86 and start the boing ball rolling?

_________________
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!

@Carl-S

I'd be happy to see ANY hardware at this point. I'd consider restarting my development and creative efforts for the Amiga once again with the possibility of their being an increased audience and user base for it. I may even deal with being anchored to my desk with a desktop my MicroA1 desktop, however, I would do backflips if I managed to get a laptop to run AOS on and do all of the above, and be even more hopeful for the Amiga's future if it ran on an x86 platform, so I voted Yes.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@redrumloa

Quote:

Do you plan to buy Amiga Inc or do you have any communication with them? I am very curious where this is headed and I hope you do plan on having involvement in moving the platform forward.

Yes, that IS interesting isn't it?!?!

[Now putting on my wild speculation hat]
First, we hear from Haynie, then DiscreetFX's surprise announcement, and now Sassenrath's tantalizing questions. It does make one want to go "Hmmmm" doesn't it? Coincidence!?!? Hmmm....
[Now removing my wild speculation hat]

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

Hi,

I decided to dig out my logon name and voted yes (old password did not work so had to get a new one). The reason is that I've been waiting a long time for something that I could afford (in addition to a PC with XP). It is very entertaining to keep up with the latest Amiga news. However, the old Amiga hardware of mine and related stuff is taking up space . . .

2 or 3 large cardboard boxes full of Amiga Magazines from the 80's - Tossed
386 bridgeboard with leaking battery - Tossed (P4 works better)
A3000 with leaking battery - remove battery, make sure it still boots - box up - keeping
2 or 3 boxes of software - waiting - just in case (hey -- that would be a lot less space on CDs)
A500 with box of software - gave to son and he sold it!

Yep -- I spent some $$ on Amiga software -- having a graphic computer when PC had 4 colors was fun. I have not spent nearly as much on Windows software since the only exciting thing about it is learning/getting frustrated with XP, and using firefox for browsing. Oh, yea, I really do like ArcGis Desktop but unfortunately that only runs on Windows.

Reading the forums here was getting sort of slow, but reading what Carl had to say definitely perked my interest! Darn -- I wish I had kept that article in Byte Magazine announcing the Amiga 3000!

I keep reading some say here that the Amiga OS is so far behind XP. Is it? When the Amiga OS first came out it was 10 years ahead. Amiga OS 3.1 was still ahead in my mind until Microsoft introduced NT and finally had an interface and os that were in sync instead of windows on top of DOS. That was not that long ago and the Amiga OS is unique. OS4 sounds like it would be a refreshing blast.

I'm interested in OS4 on an affordable platform -- PPC or X86, no matter. I like the Pentium M in my laptop at work. Also, I have appreciated the Frieden Brothers honest communication -- fun to read their stuff. I was thinking that I read somewhere that Carl was approached at one point (way back) about porting the Amiga OS and felt it would be a daunting job - Kudos to the OS4 team (Carl - if this is not correct - then I must have read that on Moo Bunny! - sorry).

@abalaban

Amithlon was killed by the large egos at play that prevented the author from legally continuing further development of it, not because there was no demand...far from it.

Last edited by elatour on 28-Oct-2006 at 08:55 AM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote: @Amigablitter I think you and Raffaele know more than we think...

We check all underground messages that the Samantha team launch on italian site ikir sector

http://www.ikirsector.it

They give us some sparse info, cryptic and hidden which need to be interpretate, and they do it with pure sadism...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@AmigAlex

Quote:

OSX which runs on custom/branded hardware isn't doing too bad...

Isn't doing so bad? It's within a stone's throw away from taking the number 3 spot from Gateway in computer systems sold (that's Macs, not iPods), at least in North America. See this recent news story for further details and check out the last two paragraphs to see what I'm refering to.

Last edited by elatour on 28-Oct-2006 at 08:55 AM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

Why start at this point an X86 project? Now that the OS4 Final is coming as well as new hardware?

The problem is that this hardware has been "just around the corner" and "here any day now" for the past two years. The first of these will most likely not be available on store shelves/in-stock for purchase for another 6 months or possibly longer, and others more likely not for another year or more, at least IMHO.

This is not a slight on the courageous people that are making all of the valiant efforts to get these to the user and developer community. It's just a recognition of the huge challenges that lie ahead for them in getting these to market.

Quote:

Does this mean that we must put all the effort in writing the PPC code and to produce PPC Hardware in a bin? A transition, eventually, could be done only if a platform is well established. Correct me if i'm wrong: Amiga platform is not well established at this time, right? Isn't Amiga considered a survivor or not? Or Amiga is in the same situation of Apple having all the resource and power to shift from PPC to X86? Amiga have to find itself, first. When the platform will be well established and solid, then a switch to X86 could be considered.

There is no need to shelve anything.

Apple worked secretely for 5 years on this x86 move and planning for this began years before this work began. Also keep in mind that the iPod success story wasn't even in the picture then.

In the technology business, one can't wait until the future is here to start planning for it. All successful technology companies have planned for tomorrow's product today and almost always alongside a product that would come before it and which hasn't even been released yet.

Anyone owning the Amiga OS has to plan for this innevitable eventuality today, not tomorrow. If, as claimed by OS4's developers, the OS was written entirely in C with portability in mind, then this should not mean that OS and third party utility / application developers need to rewrite everything, the API's should be the same, and all that should be needed, if planned properly, is a re-compilation to a different target platform.

You're probably asking why I'm so certain that this eventuality is so innevitable and unnavoidable and what magic ball I might be using or drug I might be on to come to such a conclusion with so much certitude, and you'd be right in doing so seeing as nobody, at least nobody that I know of, can predict the future. But one thing I DO know for sure, and that is that Freescale's CEO himself said a few months ago that the PPC desktop is dead to Freescale. So although it is not a certainty that the Amiga for the desktop using a PPC processor will disappaer, it's future is certainly grim when one considers Freescale's stated mission and vision.

Quote:

AFAIK, there are 4 different PPC firmware where OS4 run.

For PLANNED PPC firmware. Nobody knows for sure when or if these boards will ever see the light of day unfortunately. There are huge logistical, licensing, money and other challenges that might thwart each project's valient efforts.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@Rit

Quote:

i86 processors are too hot, cannot be passivly cooled without a tank of a case, too power consuming and they are just awful.

This is incorrect, there are many x86 bsed boards out there for the embedded market that are passively cooled without requiring either a monster case or psu.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...