@dg

Quote:

I suspose you mean windows XP booting essentially off of DOS?

Note that, MS Windows XP/2003 X64 edition can boot from native UEFI i.e. X64 mode. Initial release of Windows Vista will not include UEFI x64 64-bit support, but subsequent Windows Vista release will support UEFI.

Due lack of interest from partners, Microsoft will not support 32bit EFI.

Refer to
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/efibrief.mspx#E2B

It's interesting to see IBM's support for UEFI and especially when combined with the rumoured POWER7 on Operton socket platform....

Refer to
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/22/ibm_power7_opteron/

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 10:13 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 09:43 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Akiko

Quote:

The decision to go PPC has already been made! It's abit ironic that when the hardware situation looks so close to being resolved everyone starts discussing on how best to throw the baby out with the bath water!

But since Autumn 2005, the hardware situation always looked "close to being resolved" with hardware "just around the corner" (according to certain people).

First, everybody put all their hopes in Troika and that became a real let-down. Then it was ACK with weekly announcements of new projects, release dates, promises, all of them missed so far. Now it is Samantha which everybody seems to put their hopes in. Indeed, it looks promising and let's hope the remaining obstacles get sorted out soon. But... what comes next? Another 12 months of waiting for another custom-made "higher-end" product (I mean faster than, uhm, 667Mhz)? Some expensive modified Chinese evaluation STB-mainboard?

A move to x86 would mean that the hardware situation would get solved once for all. Yes, it could take some time and is very unlikely to happen soon (OS4), but if there is any will and vision in the future to make an "NG" AmigaOS available to a broader userbase than just a few thousand people, then the move to x86 and cheap commodity hardware is imperative.

Last edited by hatschi on 28-Oct-2006 at 09:47 PM.

@hatschi

After all these failures it's hard to believe that there still are people cheering
these efforts. I believed in 2005 but now I don't believe at all. The sooner x86 the
better. How the h**** are you going to get Amiga onto a decent laptop with these
methods that are excerciced today ?? Why is it so insanely difficult to use anything
existing out there. We are digging our own grave even deeper like this.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@dg

Quote:

I suspose you mean windows XP booting essentially off of DOS?

No, not really. The name of the OS I'm talking about does have a 'X' in it, though.

Quote:

So, that is not what I mean by a self contained OS. Yes, every OS has to boot up somehow and as long as the whole package is self-contained and it simply boots directly into Amiga OS with minimal overhead, then that is OK by me. I just don't want to see linux or windows before I get into OS4 and would prefer it not be dependant on some linux or windows update.

That is another issue altogether, then. Obviously, even though the ability to run the Amiga-specific layer on top of a full-fledged host OS could be retained, to optimize the user experience the default would be to not let the host OS show through at all.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Hammer

Who gives a toss about Windows CE?... no one is running on their desktop/laptop PC that I know of! And as you see, shared source is still WAY more restrictive than open source (including GPL)!

_________________

@AmigaMac

Quote:

Who gives a toss about Windows CE?...

It’s only an example.

Quote:

no one is running on their desktop/laptop PC that I know of

That’s would be a problem since you haven’t done proper market statistics.

AMD PIC (similar hardware to 100 dollar laptop) runs a modified** Windows CE version as restricted desktop OS. **Able to run desktop NT 5.x applications.
Windows CE is use in thin client desktop PCs.

Quote:

And as you see, shared source is still WAY more restrictive than open source (including GPL)!

The focus was with OS4 against other solutions NOT comparing FOSS licenses and MS’s shared source.

Like in the desktop OS market, there are highly competitive OS vendors in the embedded OS market.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 11:34 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 11:06 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 11:04 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Oct-2006 at 10:59 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Carl-S

Quote:

To me, that is the critical factor. Is that "workforce" still around? Are programmers, doc writers, and artists still willing to help with Amiga, or have they all moved on.

Some have remained and it looks like a relevant part of the remaining amigans is actually made by creative people. However, I have to admit that recently I discovered that the situation is worse than I thought: I was (well, still am) looking for pixellers and level designers for a serious videogame project and could not manage to find anybody

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@saimo

I'd love to be more involved with graphics stuff.. but I never have enough time, and also feel whats the point.. I know that sounds negative, but a game wont attract people to the platform as the big things (such as browser, office app etc) are missing.

Catch 22 - and also what motivates people.

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

and also feel whats the point.. I know that sounds negative, but a game wont attract people to the platform as the big things (such as browser, office app etc) are missing.

Sure, there are more important things. But still there is a point in doing something that is not exactly critical. Possibly more than one, even. There's the fact that any contribution, as little as can be, is a contribution nonetheless; then, there may be *love* for job itself (in my specific case, I just love doing what I'm doing); then, there may be love for the project (in my specific case, now, after ~1.5 years of hard work, the game is a sort of child to me); then, there is possibility of making some money (even if not much); then, there is any personal motivation one can have (a challenge, a learning process, skills demonstration, etc.).
I'm sure that whenever anybody does what he really feels like doing at the best of his possibilities, something good always comes out of it - even just a personal enrichment (not speaking of money here) is an indirect gain for the whole community.

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@yak

the version of aros-max on that site (0.2.0) is waaaaay out of date, the newest i can find is 0.4.8 here

_________________

@COBRA

Quote:

There's a boot ISO here: http://aros.sourceforge.net/download.php

Thanks. I will give it a try. BTW, I would imagine more people would try it if it were easier to create the CDROM (referring to the fact that it is bzip2 compressed, etc). Make it trivial to try. Just a thought for the AROS team.

_________________
When replying, please keep it short and sweet, and I will read it. If it is long, I read only the first few lines to decide if I want to read the rest.

@Carl-S

I just tried AROS as the boot OS on my laptop (via a AROS Live CD). Worked quite well. Nicely done AROS team!

A few tiny comments...

1. A cool demo would be nice (there could be one on the disk, but finding it in that drawer of all of those not-so-interesting demos is problematic).

2. The fan on my 3.2 GHz machine was going full speed! So, is AROS CPU intensive? But, shouldn't be. (What is your Exec doing when no tasks need scheduling?)

Again, good stuff. AROS just worked... and I know how difficult that is on PCs.

_________________
When replying, please keep it short and sweet, and I will read it. If it is long, I read only the first few lines to decide if I want to read the rest.

@Carl-S

Quote:

2. The fan on my 3.2 GHz machine was going full speed! So, is AROS CPU intensive? But, shouldn't be. (What is your Exec doing when no tasks need scheduling?)

I would suspect that is because AROS doesn't support ACPI or CPU frequency-scaling.

Cheers,
Rich

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: @COBRA Quote: There's a boot ISO here: http://aros.sourceforge.net/download.php Thanks. I will give it a try. BTW, I would imagine more people would try it if it were easier to create the CDROM (referring to the fact that it is bzip2 compressed, etc). Make it trivial to try. Just a thought for the AROS team.

I hear you, but bz2 is used because of spaces issues on sourceforge: the more we can fit in our quota, the better.

Also, nowadays many windows unarchivers are able to unpack tar.bz2 files.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Carl-S

Quote:

1. A cool demo would be nice (there could be one on the disk, but finding it in that drawer of all of those not-so-interesting demos is problematic).

I believe there's a "Demo" directory right in the root dir.

Quote:

2. The fan on my 3.2 GHz machine was going full speed! So, is AROS CPU intensive? But, shouldn't be. (What is your Exec doing when no tasks need scheduling?)

Exactly this:

    incl    IdleCount(%ebp)
    orw     $0x80,AttnResched(%ebp)
    sti
    hlt

    cli

Last edited by falemagn on 29-Oct-2006 at 06:41 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 29-Oct-2006 at 06:40 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Carl-S

Hmm...

While two dogs fight for a bone, a third dog runs away with it?

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@Carl-S
I have voted no!.
I want a hardware with only the family of the powerpc.
You imagined a modern laptop one with Os4 and powerpc......

_________________
my A1="Os4", Sam ="OS4.1"
Now Amiga 1200!

@saimo

Quote:

saimo wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny Quote: and also feel whats the point.. I know that sounds negative, but a game wont attract people to the platform as the big things (such as browser, office app etc) are missing. Sure, there are more important things. But still there is a point in doing something that is not exactly critical. Possibly more than one, even. There's the fact that any contribution, as little as can be, is a contribution nonetheless; then, there may be *love* for job itself (in my specific case, I just love doing what I'm doing); then, there may be love for the project (in my specific case, now, after ~1.5 years of hard work, the game is a sort of child to me); then, there is possibility of making some money (even if not much); then, there is any personal motivation one can have (a challenge, a learning process, skills demonstration, etc.). I'm sure that whenever anybody does what he really feels like doing at the best of his possibilities, something good always comes out of it - even just a personal enrichment (not speaking of money here) is an indirect gain for the whole community. saimo

True - doing something for the sheer love of it is important. I'd really love to work on a graphic adventure (Monkey Island style) I had planned. I began some script and character development - but it was just taking too long.. work and crap got in the way. Perhaps in time I'll revisit it. Would be cool to see it evolve as a community effort - with people adding to the story line, changing the goals - a totally free to roam environment..

hmm... I cant code for toffee tho.

@saimo

Quote:

owever, I have to admit that recently I discovered that the situation is worse than I thought: I was (well, still am) looking for pixellers and level designers for a serious videogame project and could not manage to find anybody

Don't extrapolate too much from the low turnout, IMO there's no shortage of artists and talent but a shortage of spare time for most of us.
I considered your request too but had to ask myself "where would I find the time?".

With enough $$$ you'd find someone in no time, I'm sure most people would rather get paid to work on some Amiga gfx project than what might be their regular daytime job...

_________________
AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

If someone took a Core 2 duo laptop removed the sticker and put a "PPC" sticker next to the touchpad instead and then handed you a laptop running Amiga OS 4, how could you possible know the difference of what cpu is below the keyboard?

I would know within about 5 minutes because it would be so hot it would burn the hair right off my legs. Then I could just use it as a waffle iron, I suppose. Assuming the battery doesn't explode first.