Poster | Thread |
CodeSmith
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 3-Nov-2006 3:34:06
| | [ #381 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3045
From: USA | | |
|
| @elatour
Not really "making a point" as such, it's just that I'd just had a discussion with a friend who was convinced that he was running Windows XP in his new cellphone, so that idea was knocking around in my head at the time.
About OS4 on cellphones and other "doesn't look like a computer" devices, I disagree that Windows Embedded is taking market share away from it. In the company I work with is a group that deals with email software on cellphones, and those guys are always talking about Windows Embedded, Symbian, PalmOS and Linux. Except for Linux (and they're catching up fast), all those players have a lot of experience in the handheld business. Hyperion may have experience in writing fast, tight code, but the handheld "space" is very different from desktops. I'd say that Symbian and Palm have the market pretty much buttoned up, with MS slowly getting in by throwing vast amounts of money at the problem and Linux having the "don't have to pay for it and we can tweak it ourselves" advantage, which in the handheld market with its cutthroat margins and nonstandard hardware, is a huge advantage. I just don't see what the "killer feature" in OS4 is as far as handhelds and kiosks are concerned (well, maybe kiosks - but there OS4 would be competing with Linux and WinXP...)
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
AmigaMac
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 3-Nov-2006 3:43:57
| | [ #382 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 26-Oct-2002 Posts: 1094
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun! | | |
|
| @Hammer
Emmm, refer to Apple PowerMac G5 for such descriptions. Also, factor in X86’s mobile processor's power consumption and cooling solutions.
You're not suggesting that x86 miraculously beats PowerPC in the power consumption space do you? Soon after Intel released Core Duo (of Pentium III bred), IBM and others have shown that PowerPC can scale and run as cool if not cooler -- refer to PA Semi and their PWRficient processor roadmap as an example. YES, Intel has learned from their Pentium IV (doubles as a space heater) mistake and returned to previous design concepts to move forward.
Oh and I'm typing this on an iMac G5 now; no where near as noisy (actually the G5 runs quietly) as my AMD powered Linux box that has a CPU running at 1/2 the clockspeed. _________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
elatour
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 3-Nov-2006 4:09:51
| | [ #383 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 18-Jan-2005 Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada | | |
|
| @CodeSmith
Well, I'll admit that I'm no expert on the matter and that I'm just going on a trend that I appear to be seeing around me, and articles like the following seem to support this belief:
Quote:
All I'm saying is that when major phone and PDA manufacturers drop Symbian and Palm in favour of Windows, this has a major impact on what others will do soon after.
_________________ When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hammer
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 3-Nov-2006 8:19:12
| | [ #384 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 5246
From: Australia | | |
|
| @AmigaMac
Quote:
You're not suggesting that x86 miraculously beats PowerPC in the power consumption space do you? Soon after Intel released Core Duo (of Pentium III bred),
|
Depends on "PowerPC" core and X86/X64 core being compared.
Note that; 1, Core Duo 2 (Merom) != Core Duo (Yonah). 2. Core Duo (Yonah) != Pentium III-S e.g. Yonah has OOOE improvements from Pentium IV.
Quote:
IBM and others have shown that PowerPC can scale
|
So? both ISAs can scale.
Quote:
and run as cool if not cooler -- refer to PA Semi and their PWRficient processor roadmap as an example
|
One shouldn’t compare future vs current products. e.g. AMD will be able to fit four (65nm SOI-DSL) cores within the current AMD’s TDP (max power) structure.
Quote:
YES, Intel has learned from their Pentium IV (doubles as a space heater) mistake |
Intel Core 2 already reaching Pentium IV’s 3Ghz clock speeds btw. One should realize that Intel’s Pentium IV was the result from AMD’s 1Ghz race** and marketing. **Stems from DEC Alpha’s Mhz race.
Quote:
Oh and I'm typing this on an iMac G5 now; no where near as noisy (actually the G5 runs quietly) as my AMD powered Linux box that has a CPU running at 1/2 the clockspeed
|
Note the "PowerMac G5" i.e. clockspeeds beyond iMac G5.
Refer to http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/pa-powerenv/
According to IBM’s own docs, PowerPC 970FX’s TDP rapid curve increase as it nears 2.5Ghz (~100 watts).
Comparable** AMD Turion MT-44 (25Watts max power, 90nm SOI non-DSL, Stepping E5) was able to delay this rapid curve increase up to 2.4Ghz.
@800Mhz, PowerPC 970FX's TDP(Powertune line) is higher than Turion MT (~3.2Watts with Northbridge)with same clock speed. AMD Turion MT-44 also almost double the transistor count compared to IBM PowerPC 970FX.
**Built-on the same AMD/IBM fabrication process technology.
Last edited by Hammer on 03-Nov-2006 at 09:06 AM. Last edited by Hammer on 03-Nov-2006 at 09:03 AM.
_________________ Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68) Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68) |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
unclecurio
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 3-Nov-2006 13:29:07
| | [ #385 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Jan-2003 Posts: 411
From: Edinburgh, Scotland | | |
|
| @AmigaMac
Quote:
Oh and I'm typing this on an iMac G5 now; no where near as noisy (actually the G5 runs quietly) as my AMD powered Linux box that has a CPU running at 1/2 the clockspeed. |
The Mac will always be quieter because of the case layout more than anything else - large, low RPM fans, heat compartments and low impedence of airflow means a quiet machine. Unless you paid a premium for a quiet PC or built it yourself with noise control in mind, it's going to be at a massive disadvantage from the word go.
If it's getting to be a pain, do a quick fan check to see where the worst noise comes from - odds on it'll be the PSU. Swap it out for a seasonic and then add some fan controllers to keep the case fans in check. If you're into the DIY, you might also want to try HD suspension using clothing elastic - makes a real difference to HD noise. Check out silentpcreview.com for more detail on the matter - be warned though, it's an addictive habit!
Sorry for drifting OT
edit: Just re-read and saw it was an iMac - the same holds true, however. They're still designed with low noise in mind.Last edited by unclecurio on 03-Nov-2006 at 01:33 PM.
_________________ Folding@Home Team AmigaWorld no: 33424 |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
myer
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 6-Nov-2006 19:26:54
| | [ #386 ] |
|
|
|
New Member |
Joined: 27-Oct-2006 Posts: 2
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Hannibal_Smith
Sure I have. That's why I do complain about keyboards. :(
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
dan.hutch
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 6-Nov-2006 20:12:51
| | [ #387 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 30-Dec-2004 Posts: 529
From: United Kingdom | | |
|
| i'm waiting for my OS5 Quad Xeon box anyway . |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Manu
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 6-Nov-2006 20:18:19
| | [ #388 ] |
|
|
|
Super Member |
Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @dan.hutch
Quote:
dan.hutch wrote: i'm waiting for my OS5 Quad Xeon box anyway . |
Me too
And by the way the "power consumption & noice race" is getting as equally worn out as the "MHz race" is. What are people trying to prove really ? _________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hannibal_Smith
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 8:40:53
| | [ #389 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 2-Sep-2006 Posts: 122
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @myer
My reply was aimed at Hammer. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Bodie_CI5
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 8:50:23
| | [ #390 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Jul-2003 Posts: 6739
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @thread
Could somebody please supply this poor soul with a brief synopsis of what has been covered in this thread? First time a thread has gone into the 20th page and I have yet to make my presence felt.
_________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Rogue
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 10:50:55
| | [ #391 ] |
|
|
|
OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Bobsonsirjonny
Quote:
OS4 is said to be small and efficient enough. |
FWIW, we have it running on the IBM Arctic PDA, with a complete system booting from a 16 MB flashrom image including Workbench. I still have a video of it booting and being used. Yes it is small and efficient.
However, and this is a big however, an X86 version will not happen in the foreseeable future. I don't feel like going over the reasons again, because I have done so for at least a million times (I think mentioning the word "license" should ring a bell)._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Rogue
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 10:55:22
| | [ #392 ] |
|
|
|
OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @AmigaHeretic
Quote:
If I could get you to seriously think about that for a second and give me a 'serious' answer to this.... |
I *think* that the point of a poll is for people to give their opinion, and although it might not coincide with YOUR opinion, classifying people that say No as "unserious" is just another example of a narrow-mindedness.
It is this kind of arrogance that always ticks me off._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
ExiE
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 10:59:13
| | [ #393 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 18-May-2004 Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News | | |
|
| @Rogue
Yeah yeah we all know the "license story". It would be more interesting known your opinion from technical point of view. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
jorkany
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 13:24:33
| | [ #394 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 1-May-2005 Posts: 920
From: Space Coast | | |
|
| @Rogue Quote:
FWIW, we have it running on the IBM Arctic PDA, with a complete system booting from a 16 MB flashrom image including Workbench. | Why not port OS4 to hardware that's actually available?_________________ Here for the whimpering end |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
-Sam-
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 13:49:21
| | [ #395 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Apr-2003 Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom | | |
|
| @elatour
Quote:
That's up to 2 more years lead time for Microsoft to completely take over the interrractive and rich user interface embedded market with Windows |
Maybe - but don't forget that AInc. has a team working on OS5 that will be better than OSX. So all is not lost._________________ Sam |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Insanity
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 14:45:42
| | [ #396 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Aug-2005 Posts: 405
From: Sweden | | |
|
| @-Sam-
The in my opinion rather untimely anouncement of OS5 seems like a kneecapping of hyperion (while it at the same time is a vision of the future).
Since, if Hyperion has not given over most of the sourcecode from OS4(Speculation), then progress past a certain point will only be possible if the OS5-team reinmplements things already found in OS4.
@rogue, any comment? _________________ Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.
If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all. /Ins |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
elatour
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 17:08:51
| | [ #397 ] |
|
|
|
Cult Member |
Joined: 18-Jan-2005 Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada | | |
|
| @-Sam-
Quote:
Maybe - but don't forget that AInc. has a team working on OS5 that will be better than OSX. So all is not lost. |
You are kidding right? Specially about the "better than OSX" bit? If you aren't, then please define "better". If you mean better than OSX in the embedded space, then that wouldn't be too hard seeing to my knowledge OSX doesn't run embedded nor does it go after this market. However, I would have a hard time believing that AInc. could have a desktop and server OS up and running in this time frame that's is even on par with, let alone better than OSX as a desktop or server OS. Did Bill McEwen actually state or alude to this about AOS5 vrs OSX? To my knowledge, he's given more about what AOS5 WON'T be than what it WILL be.
_________________ When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Esquilax
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 17:15:05
| | [ #398 ] |
|
|
|
Regular Member |
Joined: 30-Jan-2004 Posts: 136
From: Scotland | | |
|
| @jorkany
Quote:
Why not port OS4 to hardware that's actually available? |
And that would be the fully licensed ...? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
hatschi
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 17:27:09
| | [ #399 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 1-Dec-2005 Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe. | | |
|
| @elatour Quote:
elatour wrote: @-Sam-
Quote:
Maybe - but don't forget that AInc. has a team working on OS5 that will be better than OSX. So all is not lost. |
You are kidding right? Specially about the "better than OSX" bit? If you aren't, then please define "better". |
I suppose that -Sam- was alluding to the hilarious McEwen interview with Temple of Technology. That "better than OS X" bit actually came from him:
Quote:
We have a schedule, but at this time we are not going to put that information out there. I should also state that the name OS 5 is going to change. The product that we are going to ship is going to be much better than OSX from Apple, so OS 5 is not an accurate name or description of the product offering. |
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
-Sam-
| |
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test Posted on 7-Nov-2006 21:31:16
| | [ #400 ] |
|
|
|
Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Apr-2003 Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom | | |
|
| @hatschi
Quote:
I suppose that -Sam- was alluding to the hilarious McEwen interview with Temple of Technology. That "better than OS X" bit actually came from him: |
Indeed I was. _________________ Sam |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|