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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
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Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 Next Page )
Poll : Would you use OS4 if it ran on PC boxes/laptops?
Yes, immediately.
Maybe eventually.
No. Never.
 
PosterThread
Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 11:09:36
#461 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@lkeller

//Combat Mode Enabled.

Quote:

I am amused by the constant reference to putting AmigaOS 4 on PC or Mac hardware. I can't see where that takes development anywhere as there is no way Amiga apps will ever approach those available for the hardware currently under Windows or MacOS. The only viable way for a niche presence is innovative hardware that attracts an active, distinctive development group. The X 1000 is an excellent start on that path and the PPC is better CPU, especially in power consumption.

I am amused by the constant reference to PPC is better CPU claims.

Any PPC vs X86 is dependent on PPC and X86 model matrix.

Incoming AMD Zecate APU (CGPU) has 19 watts power consumption.PA6T doesn't even have a built-in Direct3D11/OpenGL4/OpenCL1.1 class GpGPU.



Intel Core i3 320M @2.5Ghz (CGPU) has about TDP 35 watts.

AMD Turion II P560 @2.5Ghz (Dual Core + NB + MCH) has about TDP 25 watts.

AMD Phenom II N950 @2.1Ghz (Quad Core + NB + MCH) has about TDP 35 watts i.e. 8.75 watts per core.

let's start AMD Zecate APU vs PA6T ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btH_gwd8CSg&feature=related
AMD Zacate running Batman game.

Can PA6T do the something similar? Oh wait, it doesn't have a built-in competent data parallel processor.

What’s PA6T's SPECInt per watt and SPECFP per watt scores again?

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:42 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:36 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:33 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:25 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:23 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:20 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 24-Oct-2010 at 11:11 AM.

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Akiko 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 11:22:17
#462 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 781
From: UK

@bison

Quote:
Well in that case, I voted yes. And I plan to come back in 2014 and vote again.


I just tried after 4 years and it didn't work.

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The_Editor 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 12:07:59
#463 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Akiko

I wasn't the only one who thought that Carl had just posted that then ?

Stupid thing is that I remember it when it was initially posted. To quote Roquefort

Quote:
Age sux

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Hypex 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 14:37:36
#464 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@lkeller

Hi Larry.

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lkeller 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 14:57:47
#465 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Jul-2003
Posts: 11
From: Lakewood, Ohio

@Hypex

Hi! Fun to jump in and watch those who think generic or current hardware would work.

Good to hear from you and back to work.

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kamelito 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 17:02:47
#466 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@Carl-S

Wow you look good in that photo Carl!, we met when you were working for VisCorp (in England), Don was there too.
Its nice to have you there interested by Amiga. We know that Hyperion do not have the right to port Amiga OS 4 to X86 but I suppose that a deal can be made outside of this contract to the benefit of all...
I'll have a look at Rebol3, but in the business today its mostly java and php server side (based on my xp)
If you still have some Guru's Guide I'll buy one just tell me how.

Regards
Kamel


Last edited by kamelito on 24-Oct-2010 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by kamelito on 24-Oct-2010 at 05:18 PM.

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rebraist 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 24-Oct-2010 20:10:57
#467 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2010
Posts: 148
From: Italia - Napoli

hasn't hyperion rights to do what they want to aos and its development?

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 0:25:37
#468 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2320
From: Minnesota, USA

@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote:
Sometimes a specific test case provides better insight than an abstract definition. So, here is a test question.

What if:

1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop, and

2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box.

How would you feel about that?

How many people here would use it immediately?

How many of us would be building new applications, new games, porting over good software, selling PC/OS4 packages, integrating new hardware, putting OS4 into schools, and ... you get the idea...

How many would still wait for PPC hardware?

So, that's the razor. You decide.


That second if is a pretty big if. I own a 1.83 GHz Core 2 Duo equipped Mac Mini. The JIT lags substantially on some software. I voted maybe.

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kolla 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 4:16:50
#469 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Samurai_Crow

What software, and what CPU emulation settings?

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 6:52:07
#470 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@kolla

Perhaps Rosetta or PearPC JIT or Dolphin Wii emulator..

Last edited by Hammer on 25-Oct-2010 at 06:53 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 6:56:27
#471 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

Samurai_Crow wrote:
@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote:
Sometimes a specific test case provides better insight than an abstract definition. So, here is a test question.

What if:

1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop, and

2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box.

How would you feel about that?

How many people here would use it immediately?

How many of us would be building new applications, new games, porting over good software, selling PC/OS4 packages, integrating new hardware, putting OS4 into schools, and ... you get the idea...

How many would still wait for PPC hardware?

So, that's the razor. You decide.


That second if is a pretty big if. I own a 1.83 GHz Core 2 Duo equipped Mac Mini. The JIT lags substantially on some software. I voted maybe.

Amiga PPC apps is not bloated as MacOS X PPC apps.

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kamelito 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 9:57:56
#472 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@Carl-S

>2. Classic Amiga apps and games emulated "perfectly" on that same box.

Knowing that Jens was at Amiwest too, does "perfectly" mean clone-A?
Its for now AFAIK the only solution replicating the Amiga chipsets at the HW level.

regards
Kamel

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DAX 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 10:05:23
#473 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Mechanic
After 4 years bringing this thread out from the dead, after 1 Gogzdatrillion pages of why Yes x86 and why NOT x86, would seem just an excuse for the usual x86 bunch to jump out and start it all over.

It's good, it's bad, the FACT is (as in UN-arguable reality) it's not gonna happen.

Case closed.

Last edited by DAX on 25-Oct-2010 at 10:07 AM.

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amigang 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 10:17:27
#474 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England


I have not read all this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating anything... but I have to ask what is the point of this thread? If you want an 86x AmigaOS then support Aros apart from a few differences the goal of both OS4 and Aros is the same, to make a modern day AmigaOS system. I dont see there being much reason to port AmigaOS4 over to 86x, be better to to just rename Aros, AmigaOS and maybe port over any thing thats done slightly better on OS4 to 86x code.

However I do support both effort and maybe OS4 more, why the main reason is because I dont really like the idea of Amiga just becoming another Intel 86x box with all the same old same components I like the fact that Amiga does things differently it makes it more its own platform, am I a bit stupid for think this way, maybe. The whole 86x vs PPC debate would not be happing if was not for one thing...price! I dont think performance can really enter it any more, special when the x1000 comes out, I think about how much I can do with just my lowly A1200 running at 14mhz, I can do spreadsheets, databases, coding, write letter, go on the net, graphics, animations, make audio etc its only thing like handling modern media files (flash, h.247, DivX, video codecs, etc) and 3d (thats more down to the graphics power than the cpu any way) thats really require that hardware dont get me wrong faster Cpu can always help do the job quicker and offer more but when it really come down to it these type of programs and application you see on most modern computer all can be archived on a lowly A1200. So I for one not that fused about the ghz of power, when you reach this level I do believe all you doing is letting the programmer get off with not having to write efficient coding, I look at how much my phone will let me do with just 600Mhz of power and my big PC running at 3.6Ghz with Open office, a web bower and a music player running it only uses 4% of the power. So I think performance can be taken out of it. It just the price differences.

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Hammer 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 11:58:05
#475 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5246
From: Australia

@DAX

Then you have lkeller stating unsupported claims.

In 99 precent of the time, I only response to laughable claims.

Last edited by Hammer on 25-Oct-2010 at 12:01 PM.

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djrikki 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 12:11:18
#476 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

What a funny thread.. x86 vs PPC...

Okay what can a typical user do with modern PPC architecture:

1) Browse the web
2) Send emails
3) Banking, buy off e-bay etc...
4) Home accounts
5) Write letters, build presentations, add media, sound and video
6) Play the odd game... only/mostly open source games available on Mac/Amiga.
7) Print documents, network and share content

Okay what can a typical user do with modern x86 architecture:

1) Browse the web
2) Send emails
3) Banking, buy off e-bay etc...
4) Home accounts
5) Write letters, build presentations, add media, sound and video
6) Windows users can play most games, although the console market seems to be getting bigger ever day meaning less games developed for PCs.
7) Print documents, network and share content

OMG they are almost the same!

Case closed.

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DAX 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 12:37:03
#477 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Hammer
all I'm saying is that there will be no real support from Hyperion as far as x86 OS4.x, if someone else wants to embark in a "emulation" style "adventure", it's up to them.

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kamelito 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 12:42:47
#478 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Its not x86 vs ppc it's a poll to validate or invalidate an hypothesis made by Carl.
There's nothing more nothing less...
It could or could not lead to something more, will see but if I read Carl carefully don't expect more than the polls result.

Regards
Kamel

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pavlor 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 13:05:26
#479 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:
What’s PA6T's SPECInt per watt and SPECFP per watt scores again?


PA6T (both cores, SOC etc.) has 25 watts (according to PA Semi)
claimed SpecInt2000 performance is 1000 (2 GHz)
claimed SpecFp2000 performance is 1500 (2 GHz)
That is 40 SpecInt2000 per watt and 60 SpecFp2000 per watt.

one PA6T core: 7 W, both cores: 14W
That is 71 SpecInt2000 per watt and 107 SpecFp2000 per watt.

Impressive for CPU from year 2007.


For comparison: Core 2 Duo E6600 2400 MHz scores around 2500 SpecInt/Fp2000 and has DTP 65 W.
That is 38 SpecInt2000 per W and 38 SpecFp2000 per W. (only for CPU, it will be much worser with I/O - eg. nortbridge, southbridge etc.)

Last edited by pavlor on 25-Oct-2010 at 01:06 PM.

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ara 
Re: [Poll] Carl's Amiga Test
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 16:12:27
#480 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Posts: 138
From: Unknown

@pavlor
> Impressive for CPU from year 2007.

But how is this "historical" comparison relevant to the customer? The slowest E6xxx series processor that I can find in online shops is the E6500 (2.9GHz, 65W) and even the E6800 (3.3Ghz) is specified with TDP 65W, not to mention all the mobile processors (i3?) that I don't know anything about.

(The E6600 2.4 GHz scores 40 SpecInt2000 per Watt, by the way. FPU performance is worse, indeed).

Last edited by ara on 25-Oct-2010 at 04:13 PM.

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