@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Something along the lines of ... They sold 3000 Gp2X's this year

Good portion of those were at Big Bash 4. imagine if the dealers had had new Mobos to sell !!


Gotta get Carl-S & Dave H over to BB5 !!

Maybe have a pow wow with the Friedens at the same time !!

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@Carl-S

Quote:

Carl-S wrote: 1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop

If it could run on an Intel Mac, I'd most likely buy. It'd be great to run in a dual-boot situation, but then Apple drivers would have to be installed, like Boot Camp. Running OS 4 via Parallels would work for me.

@The_Editor

Sorry - that should have read 300,000 units..

@Carl-s

Carl, every since I was a teenager, I was awestruck by the Amiga. Like all of us, I was so amazed by what the machine could do and how it provided me the tools I needed to do what I wanted and not confine me to a particular way of doing things.

After many years away, falsely thinking the Amiga was dead, I came back. I now have some 10 Amigas and three of them are A3000s -- also my favourite.

The years I was away, I hated computers and tried to get away from them. Seeing the Amiga again, I remember why I liked them in the beginning: versatility, utility, efficiency and creativity.

Show me where I can get Amiga OS running x86 and I will buy right away!!! Carl, are you interested in writing another exec? How much would you need from each of us to fund it? Sometimes I fear the only way something is going to get done is if this community does it themselves.

My two cents,
Simon

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@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

If someone took a Core 2 duo laptop removed the sticker and put a "PPC" sticker next to the touchpad instead and then handed you a laptop running Amiga OS 4, how could you possible know the difference of what cpu is below the keyboard?

I'll tell you how: just wait two hours, perhaps less, that's what a x86 laptop will stay on, due to high power requirements. My iBook G4/1'25GHz can be running for 5 hours, more or less.

I'll tell you another how: put that x86 laptop on your knees, let's see how many time you can have it there without a nice "KFC" effect...

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Last edited by Ferry on 27-Oct-2006 at 01:51 AM.

_________________
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AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@Ferry

Quote:

Ferry wrote: @AmigaHeretic [quote]If someone took a Core 2 duo laptop removed the sticker and put a "PPC" sticker next to the touchpad instead and then handed you a laptop running Amiga OS 4, how could you possible know the difference of what cpu is below the keyboard?[quote] I'll tell you how: just wait two hours, perhaps less, that's what a x86 laptop will stay on, due to high power requirements. My iBook G4/1'25GHz can be running for 5 hours, more or less. I'll tell you another how: put that x86 laptop on your knees, let's see how many time you can have it there without a nice "KFC" effect... Saluditos, Ferrán.

I get 3.5 hours top performance out of this Pentium M laptop that I'm using now.. with the following running at full whack nb gaming:

Pentium M 760
17" screen
DVD burner
802.11bg
100GB hd
1024gb ram
ATi mobility X700

If I'm not gaming, I get 4.5 hours. If I use it in basic mode - office stuff, I get about 5 hours.
Newer Centrino laptops have even better power consumption - a friend of mine has a Centrino Core Duo, and he gets 5 hours usage at full perfomance, and 7 hours at reduced performance. The M based cores rock!

@Ferry

Well that's not what the marketing out of Apple is saying about x86 notebooks...

Last edited by AmigaHeretic on 27-Oct-2006 at 02:07 AM.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote: @Ferry Well that's not what the marketing out of Apple is saying about x86 notebooks...

Which are based on Pentium M tech.. Core Duo. Its really great!

Plus, I imagine you'd get more juice out of one if Amiga OS was running, as it's less processor intensive for basic tasks.. nb services etc dont need to be running in the background consuming cpu cycles.

@lofstudio

Quote:

lofstudio wrote: @Carl-S Quote: Carl-S wrote: 1. Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop If it could run on an Intel Mac, I'd most likely buy. It'd be great to run in a dual-boot situation, but then Apple drivers would have to be installed, like Boot Camp. Running OS 4 via Parallels would work for me.

I agree with you here. Being able to dual boot into an AmigaOS on my Macbook pro would be awesome. I'd get rid of the current windblows install in a flash. being able to run an AmigaOS via Parallels would be nice as well. That combined with desktop manager, external monitor if needed, would be one powerful piece of kit.

For those who don't have a mac or haven't tried parallels with desktop manager and an external monitor. When you run parallels with dual monitors, it allows you to full screen parallels on the other monitor and just switching keyboard/mouse control between OSX and the other OS on parallels with a shortcut.

_________________
Amiga 4000 CSPPC [retired]
Intel i7 3930K @ 4.3Ghz / Corsair H100 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 16 GB / 2 x 240GB Corsair Force GT SSD / 2 x EVGA 2GB 680GTX SC Sig / 3 x Benq XL2420T
27" iMac / i7 @ 3.4 / 680mx / 3TB Fusion / 32GB RAM

@Carl-S

If I could run it now, there would be no waiting for PPC hardware from me. Many of us have wanted that all along, but we got promptly told to "please shut up" because it's never going to happen. Personally, I think the modern PC hardware has a bad rap because of Windows. I would love to be able to run Amiga OS4 on a modern PC board with Core DUO, PCI-Express, SATA, and the works. Sadly (unless you know something we don't know) I don't think it will ever happen.

BTW, I am honored to have the opportunity to talk with you and give input for the question at hand. Thank you for gracing our community with a bit of light and a refreshing attitude.

@AmigaHeretic & Bobsonsirjonny

Then that's the correct path, previous laptops were a torture: because of high power requerements you had low battery life and uncomfortable use due to heating. It seems the MHz myth went bust, finally...

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

Well that's not what the marketing out of Apple is saying about x86 notebooks...

Hehe, don't believe everything Apple says about its own products:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2132

Cables melting...?


Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
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AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@Carl-S

I would say a big "YES" if you and the Friedens and many of the other very
very talented people currently working on OS4 and MorphOS would get together
and make it happen. Of course, you know that this can only happen if AmigaInc
gives it the green light....and so far that has been a definite "NO".
I want the kind of AmigaOS I am using right now...incredibly fast and efficient,
user configurable to the max, and a sheer joy to use (I work with PCs loaded
with Windows XP all day...what a relief to come home to my AmigaOne!)

So....can you convince AInc to go to the dark side?


Scott

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AmigaOne uA1-c 512M RAM - Only Amiga Makes It Possible!
Check my blog AmigaOne Computing

Let's look at next month...

The AMD "QuadFather" is supposed to come out in just a few weeks time.

That's 2x Dual-Core AMD 64's. 4 CPU cores running thousands of megahertz simultaneously all linked through hypertransport with the elimation of FSB and with rumors of QUAD SLI Support, things like 12 Sata connectors, and who knows what else?

With PPC we are not even close. Why bother trying to "play catch-up" when we could instead just be using the latest technology?

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Thread

I answered "Maybe, eventually."

I have to confess that I am less interested in AmigaOS on x86 than I am on AmigaOS on some other CPU platform. The reasons behind this are difficult to explain, but I'll give it a whirl.

The slogan on the AmigaOS 4.0 web site "Remember when computing was fun?" was my idea. I was trying to think of way to sell OS 4.0 - what did it offer that other operating systems don't. The answer is actually very little - except the enjoyment of using it. We don't have the applications that other platforms offer, and, short of a miracle, there's no way that AmigaOS is going to compete with applications any time soon. So, AmigaOS is not a practical solution for most people - but it can be a fun one.

Where I am going with this, you ask? Well, stick with me, because I am a geek and I have a peculiar notion of fun. I know that x86 hardware makes more sense from a performance/price perspective. In fact, I have a bunch of x86 boxes here running Linux to show that I know that. But it's not my idea of fun. I run Linux because there's nothing better on offer. It's cheap, powerful, and the source code is available. Similarly, I use the x86 because there's nothing better on offer. So, Linux on x86 is my practical computing platform. A new Amiga platform cannot compete with that in any meaningful way, so I want the new Amiga to be fun. To my peculiar mind, fun means different in as many ways as possible to that dull x86/Linux box.

You probably think that I, as an Amiga user of almost two decades, have an irrational phobia of the x86 platform. Well, there is probably some truth in that. (I have never actually bought an x86 computer, and it wasn't until 2000 that I finally succumbed and built my first one from parts). But being different can have a practical aspect too. For instance, I read a story recently on the Inquirer about NVidia wanting to build x86 CPUs. As it turns out, legally they can't, because nobody will give them a license. Now, I'm not a huge fan of NVidia, but that really sucks. I want more competition and choice in the technology marketplace, not less. But, it seems, companies cannot compete in the x86 space, even with the deep pockets that Nvidia has. So, we need these other (less practical in the desktop markets) CPU platforms as a place to turn to when the Intel-AMD duoply won't let us play. BTW, the PPC and especially the SPARC platforms are a good deal more open.

As Amiga users we surely believe that making a choice that is different from the mainstream is good. Our tiny, out-dated operating system offers us something that Windows, Mac OS X and Linux don't. Can't we extend that and see that choosing a processor that is different from the mainstream can be good too?

Unfortunately, due to various perversities of the AmigaOS 4.0 situation, no affordable PPC motherboard has been granted an AmigaOS 4.0 license. While PPC systems are probably going to be more expensive than their x86 counterparts, theoretically they could still be affordable. When AmigaONE hardware was available, the price was outrageous, and it's likely that any new custom OS4.0 motherboard will be equally expensive. And that makes off-the-shelf x86 hardware look so much more attractive.

The fact is until somebody gives Amiga, Inc. a well-deserved kick up the #### then we are not going to see affordable PPC hardware granted OS4.0 licenses - and we definitely won't see an x86 port of OS4.0. So all this is just talk....

Cheers,
Rich

@Carl-S

I would be very happy indeed if I could run Amiga OS 4 on a modern laptop. However, my wife and son have no interest whatever in Amiga OS 4 and would probably continue to use Windows XP.


Would I still wait for PPC hardware?

This is a tough one, because I already own an AmigaOne (or more precisely, a MicroA1-C) running Amiga OS 4.0 pre-release update #4, so I sure would like to see the official release of the PPC version of OS4. However, that depends on new PPC hardware.
---
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 27-Oct-2006 at 04:39 AM.

@Carl-S

If OS4 would run on a pc-laptop you could only do a few
specific models because we have no x86 drivers.
And that would only sell inside the Amiga-community.

If you want OS4 on all pc-laptops then you can only use
another kernel + x86 drivers. So what kernel do
we need for that? Linux, Rebol, or another kernel?

Last edited by Dirk-B on 27-Oct-2006 at 08:28 PM.
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@Carl-S

Would I use OS4 on a PC? Yes!

Will it be my Main OS? Heck NO!

This would just be a PC with another pointless OS only for fun.

Now if Amiga Hardware went Core Duo like the Mac with proprietary stuff and custom chips and ability to Run MacOSX and WindowsXP then OS4 would be my main OS because now we have a REAL Amiga with REAL Workbench.

I sure wish they would stop calling Workbench 4.0 AmigaOS4

@evilrich

While PPC systems are probably going to be more expensive than their x86 counterparts, theoretically they could still be affordable.


Even if we were to find an affordable PPC solution and not go x86 there are 2 questions I have.

1. At what speed penalty? Like I said, next month you will be able to buy a motherboard with 4 64bit AMD cores. Add up the clock cycles and that's over 10,000mhz.

2. Will there be a future? Right now an "affordable" alternative is G3 or G4. Do you think we'll ever see an Amiga G5? Will there ever be a G6 now the Apple is gone? Where will we be with PPC 2 years from today?

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

1. At what speed penalty? Like I said, next month you will be able to buy a motherboard with 4 64bit AMD cores. Add up the clock cycles and that's over 10,000mhz.

That's a good point. But my point was that ideally I'd like something other than x86, not that it's practical to choose something else. However, since most users don't use much of the processing power of their machines, I don't think that this is as big an issue as most people would claim.

An example: my wife was just bought a new computer by her employer since she works at home a lot. She asked me to find her something as fast as possible for the money. I jokingly pointed out a really neat small-form-factor HP machine with an AMD64x2 processor. To my shock, she said "yes", put in a requisition and got the machine.

So, now she's got this screaming dual-core box which she uses to browse the web, do email, and use Word. And do you know what? It's not discernibly faster at these tasks than the ancient 1.2GHz AMD box it replaced.

It's my belief that CPU speed isn't as big a factor as people - especially CPU manufacturers - make out for general use. I/O speed is far more critical for a lot of desktop applications.

My wife is an ideal example of the "average computer user". She doesn't think that she can use anything other than Microsoft products - even after me explicitly showing her time and again that other alternatives are available, how unreliable Microsoft software actually is, and how much time and effort I have to put in to keep her machine free of viruses, spyware, etc. Oh well.

Quote:

2. Will there be a future? Right now an "affordable" alternative is G3 or G4. Do you think we'll ever see an Amiga G5? Will there ever be a G6 now the Apple is gone? Where will we be with PPC 2 years from today?

I don't know. Right now I can't see the point of running AmigaOS on a G5 - or an Intel Core Duo for that matter.

PPC chips are going to get faster. Will they even maintain how far they trail behind current x86 offerings? I don't know. But isn't the Amiga way about doing things better, not relying on the fastest CPU on the block?

Cheers,
Rich

Edited 'cos it's 1.30 am and I can't type straight.

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