@COBRA



Quote:

....A lot of software will have to be written before it could be considered useful by the masses out there. Until then it's just for us fanatics. What we need now is boards available at a reasonable, affordable price so we can have a steadily growing userbase, try to get more developers, offer free boards to people to port their softwares to AmigaOS, etc....

In my experience a new computer/console platform is normally greated with some 'launch' titles which in many instances can make or break the new platforms chances (e.g. if the A1200 had had better games in the Desktop Dynamite pack then it might have boasted AGA game development quicker!)

OS4.0 has an avantage in that it runs some 68k programs. Could we not re-release/make easily available/include with the new machine, some of the old programs to show that the new Amiga can function as a home word processor/graphics/games machine and can write emails to boot! I am aware that Amiga browsers don't cut the mustard right now, but isn't that all the more reason to get Amiga Mozilla ready 'BEFORE' the re-launch?

Wasn't 'Pagestream' (DTP) in development for OS4.0 many years ago? Is that still a possibility come April?

What happened regarding the petition regarding 'EA' making 'Deluxe Paint' freeware?

I know I'm in the minority wanting the Amiga to appeal as a stand alone 'home computer' from the off, but if it doesn't give a publicity 'splash' the first time round I really can't see the Amiga crawling its way beyond a small 'fanboy' fringe. Quite blatantly Amiga Inc is going to pull the plug (licensing wise) on any company which doesn't have descent profit margins. The hobbyist market surely cannot sustain the Amiga platform on its own for the long term

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Wasn't 'Pagestream' (DTP) in development for OS4.0 many years ago? Is that still a possibility come April?

I think having that app bundled can be nice, but I think it will increase price on the complete package and that’s a bad thing, not every one is interested in writing letters.

Quote:

What happened regarding the petition regarding 'EA' making 'Deluxe Paint' freeware?

I don’t think we need DPaint, we have PPaint and it works fine for bitmap painting (1-64 color), and now we have Gimp to and it’s really good program for 32bit painting and editing.

I think DVPlayer is product that should be part of the package, it’s and excellent application.
CD burnings software nice to have too (MakeCD)
Pod application is nice to have in the package.
Music Program is nice to have in the package (TuneNet).

It’s like when you buy mac and get amazed by all the included programs..

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I don’t think we need DPaint, we have PPaint and it works fine for bitmap painting (1-64 color), and now we have Gimp to and it’s really good program for 32bit painting and editing.

Can't say I've used PPaint for a while and definately haven't used Gimp. However, DPaint was the classic Amiga's most famous 'killer ap' and I think you underestimate the effect on non-fanboys/fanboys alike if it were bundled as freeware with all new Amigas. Can PPaint/Gimp animate in that easy to use intuitive way that DPaint can? Bottom line DPaint was FUN to use - this isn't common in computer land. How much use is the source code to EA? It has very little value outside of the Amiga community. If Amiga Inc. were serious about it I bet they could release the source code for development.

Quote:

It’s like when you buy mac and get amazed by all the included programs..

Exactly, more than that, I think it's expected of a computer to include a solid collection of programs to use 'straight out of the box'!

Amiga Mozilla and Pagestream would be big name advertisments for showing the Amiga can be used as a great home computer - with little of the fustration of using modern PCs.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

In my experience a new computer/console platform is normally greated with some 'launch' titles which in many instances can make or break the new platforms chances (e.g. if the A1200 had had better games in the Desktop Dynamite pack then it might have boasted AGA game development quicker!)

You seem to think there's a real 'launch plan' in place, which would be very unlikely, let alone anything coordinated between multiple companies involved. Amiga StInc have said they have no plans on doing any 'promotion' at launch, EyeTech had said the same, and Hyperion seems to have waffled, first in 'no OS4 final before shipping hardware' and now 'OS4 final by Xmas' (again..).

There isn't real $ involved here to act like a console with 'special launch titles'...as it is, I'm surprised there's enough money involved to even attempt to make a 'special' motherboard. There doesn't seem to be any license for anyone other than EyeTech, so we don't even know if the 'Sam' or other board will even be using the Amiga name in some fashion or not...

Quote:

What happened regarding the petition regarding 'EA' making 'Deluxe Paint' freeware?

I'm betting someone at EA got an amused laugh from it....how many signatures?

Quote:

I know I'm in the minority wanting the Amiga to appeal as a stand alone 'home computer' from the off, but if it doesn't give a publicity 'splash' the first time round I really can't see the Amiga crawling its way beyond a small 'fanboy' fringe.

Except in it's current incarnation, it has near ZERO appeal as a standalone home computer, nor as a game platform. Any publicity or marketing towards that end sould simply make that obvious, as it lacks the quality and capabilities of what it would be competing against.
Modern gfx card support? Nope.
USB2 support? Nope.
Laptops? Nope.
Modern basic software for browsing, opening Word docs, media player? Nope, not really.
Any special 'best of breed' applications? Nope.
Any OS4 only killer apps or games? Nope.

So, the state of the project(s) itself already defines it as not necessarily a 'fanboy fringe' product, but certainly as a hobby OS only. Trying to market it as other a 'home computer' (even moreso when we still don't even know if a complete system will be available, versus purchasing parts..) would simply get it laughed at and demolished. Accept the fact it's a hobbyist OS right now, and for the foreseeable future..and launch it as such, failing some 'embedded use' someone may or may not come up with, that doesn't have much affect on us, aside from possibly allowing development to continue in the future...publicity is good, when it's clear and warranted, but making it out to be 'competitive' with any other OS on the desktop is simply not reasonable.

Of course, it's nothing a few million dollars can't improve on, but I'm pretty sure that's a very unlikely occurance...

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

media player?

Here is IMHO the only field where I disagree

TuneNet and DVPlayer combined with MPlayer are good even when compared to Windows Media Player, Realplayer, Winamp etc.

for the rest though, I have to agree, sad but true.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@tomazkid
mplayer is OK. Not nescessarily a fault of the software, and I'm happy to have it (for OS4), yet it works much better on my Linux and OSX boxes. Forget about full-screen video, or playing a large number of my DVDs either...

DVPlayer I'm told is better, but don't have experience with.

Either way, we seem to have far less than 'optimal' video and sound playback, IMO. Better than nothing, sure..but not able to compare to other OSes, either.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

Q. What happened regarding the petition regarding 'EA' making 'Deluxe Paint' freeware? A. I'm betting someone at EA got an amused laugh from it....how many signatures?

At the last count 1202

DPaint Petition to EA

Also note that the author didn't want the source code releases into the public domain, but for EA to do the update themselves!!!! How unlikely would that be?!!!

Quote:

...we the undersigned, want to see Electronic Arts once again both developing and publishing titles for the Amiga platform starting with an update to DPaint.we the undersigned, want to see Electronic Arts once again both developing and publishing titles for the Amiga platform starting with an update to DPaint.

Compare this to how many people want the 80's cartoon 'Mysterious Cities Of Gold' released on DVD

Myterious Cities Of Gold Petition

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Wow.. Rokky will be pleased !!

_________________
******************************************
I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

******************************************

@The_Editor

Sure, I'm all for cult 'Kiddy' shows on my shelf myself, I'm a Dungeons and Dragons fan as well (Aaaw, Dungeon Master is so cute ) , but the point is if there's 2700 members on this site why do only 1200 of them care about DPaint? Sign up today!!

P.S. I do not agree we should be badgering EA to continue development but instead to give up the source code for a third party! But I guess we should support the petition as it is

Last edited by BigD on 06-Nov-2006 at 12:12 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

At the last count 1202 DPaint Petition to EA Also note that the author didn't want the source code releases into the public domain, but for EA to do the update themselves!!!! How unlikely would that be?!!!

Heh, ok, so about the same number as the 'free AmigaOS' petition then.

EA doing an update would be as unlikely as an Amiga 'marketing campaign!'

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

EDIT: Please ignore this post. Question was answerred already later in the thread.

Last edited by elatour on 06-Nov-2006 at 09:00 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

These endless ETAs are becoming more and more pointless to me. Mainly because I'm starting more and more to believe that the only people that will buy said PPC hardware will be current fans and the odd few curious enough and with deep enough pockets to not mind dishing out a small fortune relative to what they'll be getting, in order to dabble into their need for retro computing beyond just running another flavour of UAE, and maybe even possibly doing some development, which is not exactly what I would consider enough to develop a nice foundation on which to grow upon.

I just don't personally see anything beyond that group due mainly to the fact that there will be nothing to wow them with in order to help them justify the effort and expense of buying a custom system. In order to set it apart to the average non-Amiga fan user base, even the nostalgic ones, there would need to be something special to set this hardware and software combination apart, and that just isn't the case here, IMHO.

To me, the maximum exposure to the most users out there, whether new users or previous ones with a sense of nostalgia for the platftrom, is the only road to growth with AOS4. This means, allowing it to run on commodity hardware, even if through some PPC emulation and/or virtualization layer. Although many would simply try and toss any AOS4 demo they had, I believe that through maximum exposure the potential for the relatively small number of users that might stick with it, purchase and decide to use and/or develop for it would be enough to rebuild a nice foundation from which to build the future upon. Saddly, I'm afraid that this will not happen with Amiga's current owners, which is also why I believe that unless the vision changes and very soon, then the community's only hope is a community source version of the OS, basically AROS.

Last edited by elatour on 06-Nov-2006 at 09:55 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@cHaOs667

Quote:

Nice, my µAOne-C has no bugs. Am i the only one?

Many people appear to have stable ones, including yourself apparently.

I wasn't so lucky, possibly due to the fact that mine was part of the original batch made (serial not-so-lucky number 7). Some several months after finally being able to source and buy a proper case and PSU to run this under and some $1,500USD later, it was hardware locking continually under AOS4 Updates 1 through 4 (oddly enough, not through Debian Linux), and so after many months of frustration with it and the current Amiga hardware situation, it has been relegated to gathering dust in my basement for the past few months.

I'm all for watching Dr. Frankenstein doing this kind of thing, but I certainly won't be repeating THAT fruitless experiment again myself!

Last edited by elatour on 06-Nov-2006 at 10:18 PM.
Last edited by elatour on 06-Nov-2006 at 10:17 PM.
Last edited by elatour on 06-Nov-2006 at 10:15 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@BigD

Quote:

At the last count 1202 DPaint Petition to EA

Make that 1203...I just signed it!

Thanks for the link!

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@m3x

Quote:

The target price is for the "end-consumer" version. About the "developer-version" we're planning to release a number of free boards to interested developers. More info on how to apply for a free board will be released in the next weeks. Sam440EP is more a plattform then a single motherboard, it will be available in various versions. Right now it's possible to choose: - 3 different cpu frequency (more when AMCC will release higher frequency models), - 2 gfx chips (M6 and M9), - 2 ram configurations (256Mb and 512Mb), - 4 different sized FPGAs, - various optional peripherials (CCTalk, Disk On Chip, etc...) More, it's possible to license a sub set of Sam440EP, for example, a customer doesn't need gfx and sound, we can design a smaller, and thus a cheaper motherboard.

Any news m3x?

Also, what spec will the dev boards be? I'd want the best. 667mhz + M9 + 512mb ram.

@Crumb

Quote:

500¤ is still expensive for that machine. The cpu won't be able to move triangles faster than a 750GX so why including a more expensive Radeon as standard?

Integer pixel shader co-processor arrays.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@elatour
I agree that PPC emulation (on x86) may be OS4's only way to sell in decent numbers now, but it seems that certain rabid x86 members of AmigaWorld.net have alienated the Frieden brothers so much that they still think of the suggestion of PPC emulation in the same way as the never-ending suggestions of porting OS4 to x86.

Last edited by ChrisH on 09-Dec-2006 at 10:54 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Hammer

... and the "completely correct, yet 100% incomprehensible to non-geeks, string of words" award for tonight goes to...

Last edited by CodeSmith on 10-Dec-2006 at 07:28 AM.
Last edited by CodeSmith on 10-Dec-2006 at 07:27 AM.

@CodeSmith

How about 4-way integer math co-processors (pixel shaders) @~250 Mhz to ~270Mhz with 6.40GB/s to 8GB/s memory bandwidth?

Integrated MPEG2 (DVD) decoding units, like iDCT, motion compensation, hardware sub-picture decoder, adaptive de-interlacing.

Super Sampling FSAA.

DirectX 8.1 compliant graphics processor (Pixel Shader 1.4 & Vertex Shader 1.1) or OpenGL equivalent (OpenGL 1.4 ARB_vertex_program, ATI_fragment_shader).

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Dec-2006 at 09:03 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Dec-2006 at 08:56 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Dec-2006 at 08:47 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

You already won once for today....

_________________
¤¤ Official Hyperion Zealot ¤¤

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)