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yoodoo2
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 29-Nov-2006 20:58:38
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Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| @Roj
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and the difficulty one company is having in bringing their product to market. |
Didn't see the original comment, but Hyperion aren't having difficulty bringing OS4 for Classics to market - they don't want to release it yet (for numerous reasons).
It has been stated many times that the Classic version is pretty much on a par with the A1 version, (that does mean that there many not be full drivers for all the esoteric and wacky Classic hardware add-ons produced). It has also been stated by many OS4 users (including me) that the current pre-release is pretty darned good and could easily have served as a final version._________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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wegster
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 29-Nov-2006 22:13:20
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Nov-2004 Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA | | |
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| @yoodoo2
Yeah, this seems to be the case for the most part, although I believe HJF mentioned some specific issues, either with drivers or possible non-support of all configurations.
But, who knows? Plans change...it would be nice to know if they have, or maybe we'll see OS4 for classics whenever 'final' arrives.
Joining the club to at least hear some 'news' rearding OS4 this year.. _________________ Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??! |
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BrandonLee
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 30-Nov-2006 19:25:25
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Joined: 15-Dec-2003 Posts: 1355
From: Lisbon, Portugal | | |
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| @wegster
That's fine with me. I was just wondering where have they gone. ;) Working on a release? Hmmm, that's even better!
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che
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 22:32:25
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Joined: 21-May-2005 Posts: 66
From: Binningen / Basel / Switzerland | | |
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| @BrandonLee
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That's fine with me. I was just wondering where have they gone. ;)Working on a release? Hmmm, that's even better! |
As the "Final Update" for A1 is released. Could we also expect a release for CSPPC in the near future? 31-12-2006 would perfectly fit
Markus _________________
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WOSPUPOS4
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:26:33
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Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Posts: 220
From: Unknown | | |
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EntilZha
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:31:35
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 27-Aug-2003 Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4 | | |
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| @takemehomegrandma
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Well, jokes aside, I think OS4 has been developed on (some developers at least) and betatested on PowerUP boards pretty much since day 1? |
The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.
In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.
The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail._________________ Thomas, the kernel guy
"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil
All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment |
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WOSPUPOS4
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:36:11
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Regular Member |
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Posts: 220
From: Unknown | | |
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| Quote:
EntilZha wrote: @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
Well, jokes aside, I think OS4 has been developed on (some developers at least) and betatested on PowerUP boards pretty much since day 1? |
The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.
In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.
The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail. |
Ouch! That didn´t sound good. i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?
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Rogue
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:49:56
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WOSPUPOS4
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i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ? |
No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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WOSPUPOS4
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:57:32
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Regular Member |
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Posts: 220
From: Unknown | | |
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| Quote:
Rogue wrote: @WOSPUPOS4
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i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ? |
No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't. |
EXELENT! Finaly. This is what i have been saying for years. Give basic specs that work and say THIS is what os4 works on. Other stuff may work but dont complain to us if they dont.
It is the exact same way for the A1 version. Nvidia = NO,ATI = YES,USB 1 = YES, USB 2.0 = NO, Firewire card (insert name) = NO. and so on.
Classic version. BlizzardPPC/CyberstormPPC = YES, Shark = NO, Internal IDE = YES, FastATA = NO. (Not that i know if they work i just made an example of how it COULD look.)
This made my heart lighten up.. Thought all my happynes was going to go away there for a moment. Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:00 AM.
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pure_Amiga
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 2:36:15
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Regular Member |
Joined: 7-Nov-2005 Posts: 152
From: Planet earth | | |
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| Quote:
The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.
In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.
The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail. |
This post reminded me of another post by a "blue troll" who said that the new memory system will cause more troubles than good, because it will most likely brake software compatibility. (i don't remember who/when)_________________ Amiga 1200+BPPC+BVision |
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adiaux
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 4:00:00
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Super Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rogue
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Rogue wrote: @WOSPUPOS4
Quote:
i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ? |
No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't. |
MorphOS has faced pretty much the same situation. They made an initial public release, collected feedback, and made some additional releases to improve things for people on classic hardware. It seems to have worked for them.
I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ... |
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Valiant
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 6:03:23
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Super Member |
Joined: 21-Oct-2003 Posts: 1109
From: West of Eden, VT USA | | |
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| @Rogue
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takemehomegrandma wrote: @Rogue
Quote:
Rogue wrote: @WOSPUPOS4
[quote]i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ? |
No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't. |
...
I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ...[/quote]
I hope you're not going to listen to him. You deserve to recoupe your developement costs, and I'm more than willing to pay a reasonable price to get OS4 on my PPC-equipped Classics. Of course, though, I might be the only one or there might be only a few who feel as I do.
_________________ -- -=#Val#=- Valiant@Camelot
Amiga 1000; Amiga 2000; Amiga 3000T; CD-TV; CD32; AmigaOne-XE 800Mhz G4;Sam400ep 666Mhz; AmigaOne X-1000 1.8Ghz PA6T-1682M |
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kyle
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 10:19:02
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Cult Member |
Joined: 15-Oct-2006 Posts: 866
From: Livorno, Italy | | |
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| @Rogue
An approximate date? |
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adiaux
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 10:48:47
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Super Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Valiant
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I hope you're not going to listen to him. You deserve to recoupe your developement costs, and I'm more than willing to pay a reasonable price to get OS4 on my PPC-equipped Classics. Of course, though, I might be the only one or there might be only a few who feel as I do. |
There is *no way* a PowerUP version of OS4 can recoupe any kind of development costs. Heck, a commercial level OS4 PUP version would probably not recoupe the investments in time effort and money to make the *PUP release alone*, at least not at any price tag that anyone would consider buying.
As the Friedens said, it will be a lot of work and effort (and probably some blood, sweat and tears) to make *a commercial* PowerUP version of OS4 happen, since there are so many unknown factors to factor in. The thing is, a *paying* customer would expect a lot more than anyone getting it for free. A paying customers would demand (and would *have the right* to demand) that everything works out of the box on his obscure HW setup from 1991, that he has built on and patched to become a Frankensteins monster since then. And if he gets problem, he would demand (and would have the right to demand) some support from the SW provider. This is probably a major obstacle, and something that could actually prevent a PowerUP release from happening IMHO.
A free release á la MorphOS would be a lot easier, and could probably be done in a few days from now, since people can't demand as much from free software. "Here, this is what you get, completely for free. Take it or leave it. You will get support in online forums by community members and ourselves, and we would be happy to receive comments and feedback on how things work on your setup".
Also, they would get a lot of people on-board OS4, both users and developers, of which many probably never would spend a lot of money to get OS4. This would probably be worth way more than any money they can ever get from boxed OS4 sales.
I think some people should wake up from the illusion that there is an "Amiga Market". There isn't. The market for OS4 can only come from OEM deals in large volumes, and the chance of that to happen would increase if as many SW developers as possible is on-board the platform. No OS is better than its community of developers. It's about people, community. Hence my comment that they should do it the MorphOS way - give it away for free at this point to get it as well spread in developer communities as possible, in order to build up a platform that at a later point can be licensed to *the real* customers, where the real money is.
IMHO the optimal thing would be to make sure the OS supports all kind of available PPC hardware and then upload the OS to various file sharing services. |
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Kotler
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 12:34:22
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Regular Member |
Joined: 27-May-2005 Posts: 255
From: Sweden | | |
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| @takemehomegrandma
It`s been said from day 1 that AmigaOS4.0 is a commercial OS, that means you don`t give it away for free. Just because MorphOS chose a different route - because a number of reasons - doesn`t mean that Hyperion/Amiga should do the same.
Of course, they won`t listen to your ideas, since you are a blue troll, looking for every opportunity to undermine Hyperion/OS4.0
Last edited by Kotler on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:37 PM. Last edited by Kotler on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:36 PM.
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Valiant
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 13:09:35
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Super Member |
Joined: 21-Oct-2003 Posts: 1109
From: West of Eden, VT USA | | |
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| @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
takemehomegrandma wrote: @Valiant
There is *no way* a PowerUP version of OS4 can recoupe any kind of development costs. Heck, a commercial level OS4 PUP version would probably not recoupe the investments in time effort and money to make the *PUP release alone*, at least not at any price tag that anyone would consider buying. |
I never said anything about it covering the entire development costs, but every bit extra helps.
Quote:
IMHO the optimal thing would be to make sure the OS supports all kind of available PPC hardware and then upload the OS to various file sharing services. |
As mentioned again in another message, OS4 is a commercial product. What? Are you advocating piracy? < j/k >
Last edited by Valiant on 25-Dec-2006 at 01:10 PM.
_________________ -- -=#Val#=- Valiant@Camelot
Amiga 1000; Amiga 2000; Amiga 3000T; CD-TV; CD32; AmigaOne-XE 800Mhz G4;Sam400ep 666Mhz; AmigaOne X-1000 1.8Ghz PA6T-1682M |
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d0c
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 14:57:57
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Cult Member |
Joined: 8-Sep-2004 Posts: 896
From: UK | | |
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| @morphos fanboys: if you like morphos and their ways so much, shouldnt you go to morphos sites and start your discussion there?.. i see no point in bringing morphos into this "When os4 for csppc?" post...
and when it comes to paying for the os4 classic i see no problem with this... _________________ I was a ZX Spectrum owner.... |
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yoodoo2
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 15:37:58
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Aug-2003 Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK | | |
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| I disagree that giving it away free would create fewer support problems: there are far more people out there that would expect it to "just work" with all sorts of hardware add-ons, when really it is the producers of the hardware who should provide support and updates (and obviously won't as they mostly no longer exist).
If OS4 for Classics come with a list of supported hardware and a 80 Euro price tag, people are more inclined to check out the requirements and limitations before spending their cash. Hyperion must state very clearly what does (and therefore what doesn't) work so that buyers know exactly what they are getting and therefore what they can expect to have support for.
My suggested list would include: Built in A1200, A3000 and A400 hardware (+ common CPPC and BPPC turbo cards, preferably with onboard SCSI working where relevant CVision and BVision graphics cards. The most common IDE expansionsz
Bounties could be raised for other stuff like clockport expansions etc (or contact Jens)
Mediator support should be provided by or paid for by Elbox. _________________ Happiness is mandatory. MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4
We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition |
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che
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 16:05:30
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Member |
Joined: 21-May-2005 Posts: 66
From: Binningen / Basel / Switzerland | | |
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| @takemehomegrandma
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I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ... |
Why for free? I wouldn't complain about paying $50 (or more) once again for OS4.0 CSPPC. MOS_PowerUP isn't free. It's donationware (or some kind of)
Markus_________________
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Eric_S
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Re: When os4 for csppc? Posted on 25-Dec-2006 17:23:14
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Team Member |
Joined: 7-Mar-2003 Posts: 1334
From: Stockholm (Sweden) | | |
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| Could we turn down the whole fanboy / troll rethoric, ok? Right or not it only turns the discussion sour. |
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