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      /  When os4 for csppc?
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yoodoo2 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 20:58:38
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2003
Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK

@Roj

Quote:
and the difficulty one company is having in bringing their product to market.

Didn't see the original comment, but Hyperion aren't having difficulty bringing OS4 for Classics to market - they don't want to release it yet (for numerous reasons).

It has been stated many times that the Classic version is pretty much on a par with the A1 version, (that does mean that there many not be full drivers for all the esoteric and wacky Classic hardware add-ons produced). It has also been stated by many OS4 users (including me) that the current pre-release is pretty darned good and could easily have served as a final version.

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wegster 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 22:13:20
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@yoodoo2

Yeah, this seems to be the case for the most part, although I believe HJF mentioned some specific issues, either with drivers or possible non-support of all configurations.

But, who knows? Plans change...it would be nice to know if they have, or maybe we'll see OS4 for classics whenever 'final' arrives.

Joining the club to at least hear some 'news' rearding OS4 this year..

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BrandonLee 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 30-Nov-2006 19:25:25
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Dec-2003
Posts: 1355
From: Lisbon, Portugal

@wegster

That's fine with me. I was just wondering where have they gone. ;)
Working on a release? Hmmm, that's even better!

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che 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 22:32:25
#24 ]
Member
Joined: 21-May-2005
Posts: 66
From: Binningen / Basel / Switzerland

@BrandonLee

Quote:
That's fine with me. I was just wondering where have they gone. ;)Working on a release? Hmmm, that's even better!


As the "Final Update" for A1 is released. Could we also expect a release for CSPPC in the near future? 31-12-2006 would perfectly fit

Markus

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WOSPUPOS4 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:26:33
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 220
From: Unknown

I hope OS4 for classics get more attention now. But is atleast grant all OS4 developers a nice holiday break to load up the batteries and start doing there magic early next year (lets say around jan 1 )

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EntilZha 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:31:35
#26 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
Well, jokes aside, I think OS4 has been developed on (some developers at least) and betatested on PowerUP boards pretty much since day 1?


The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.

In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.

The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail.

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WOSPUPOS4 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:36:11
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 220
From: Unknown

Quote:

EntilZha wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
Well, jokes aside, I think OS4 has been developed on (some developers at least) and betatested on PowerUP boards pretty much since day 1?


The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.

In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.

The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail.


Ouch! That didn´t sound good.
i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?

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Rogue 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:49:56
#28 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:
i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?


No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't.

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WOSPUPOS4 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 24-Dec-2006 23:57:32
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 220
From: Unknown

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:
i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?


No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't.


EXELENT! Finaly. This is what i have been saying for years.
Give basic specs that work and say THIS is what os4 works on. Other stuff may work but dont complain to us if they dont.

It is the exact same way for the A1 version. Nvidia = NO,ATI = YES,USB 1 = YES, USB 2.0 = NO, Firewire card (insert name) = NO. and so on.

Classic version. BlizzardPPC/CyberstormPPC = YES, Shark = NO, Internal IDE = YES, FastATA = NO. (Not that i know if they work i just made an example of how it COULD look.)

This made my heart lighten up.. Thought all my happynes was going to go away there for a moment.

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:00 AM.

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pure_Amiga 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 2:36:15
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2005
Posts: 152
From: Planet earth

Quote:
The problem with the classic versions is the support of hardware, mostly custom hardware on the A1200.

In theory, OS4 is the same on AmigaOne and CSPPC/BPPC. In practice, a lot of drivers for hardware like IDE or SCSI controllers is buggy.

The new memory system now completely drops any "physically mapped" memory, meaning that no memory will have the same physical and virtual addresses. That means drivers that don't use CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA will fail.

This post reminded me of another post by a "blue troll" who said that the new memory system will cause more troubles than good, because it will most likely brake software compatibility. (i don't remember who/when)

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adiaux 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 4:00:00
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:
i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?


No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't.


MorphOS has faced pretty much the same situation. They made an initial public release, collected feedback, and made some additional releases to improve things for people on classic hardware. It seems to have worked for them.

I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ...

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Valiant 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 6:03:23
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2003
Posts: 1109
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@Rogue

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
@WOSPUPOS4

[quote]i hope this doesnt mean you will drop the classic line ?


No, it doesn't mean we will drop the classics. It will mean that we will have to specify exactly what hardware works and what doesn't.


...

I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ...[/quote]

I hope you're not going to listen to him. You deserve to recoupe your developement costs, and I'm more than willing to pay a reasonable price to get OS4 on my PPC-equipped Classics. Of course, though, I might be the only one or there might be only a few who feel as I do.

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kyle 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 10:19:02
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2006
Posts: 866
From: Livorno, Italy

@Rogue

An approximate date?

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adiaux 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 10:48:47
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@Valiant

Quote:
I hope you're not going to listen to him. You deserve to recoupe your developement costs, and I'm more than willing to pay a reasonable price to get OS4 on my PPC-equipped Classics. Of course, though, I might be the only one or there might be only a few who feel as I do.


There is *no way* a PowerUP version of OS4 can recoupe any kind of development costs. Heck, a commercial level OS4 PUP version would probably not recoupe the investments in time effort and money to make the *PUP release alone*, at least not at any price tag that anyone would consider buying.

As the Friedens said, it will be a lot of work and effort (and probably some blood, sweat and tears) to make *a commercial* PowerUP version of OS4 happen, since there are so many unknown factors to factor in. The thing is, a *paying* customer would expect a lot more than anyone getting it for free. A paying customers would demand (and would *have the right* to demand) that everything works out of the box on his obscure HW setup from 1991, that he has built on and patched to become a Frankensteins monster since then. And if he gets problem, he would demand (and would have the right to demand) some support from the SW provider. This is probably a major obstacle, and something that could actually prevent a PowerUP release from happening IMHO.

A free release á la MorphOS would be a lot easier, and could probably be done in a few days from now, since people can't demand as much from free software. "Here, this is what you get, completely for free. Take it or leave it. You will get support in online forums by community members and ourselves, and we would be happy to receive comments and feedback on how things work on your setup".

Also, they would get a lot of people on-board OS4, both users and developers, of which many probably never would spend a lot of money to get OS4. This would probably be worth way more than any money they can ever get from boxed OS4 sales.

I think some people should wake up from the illusion that there is an "Amiga Market". There isn't. The market for OS4 can only come from OEM deals in large volumes, and the chance of that to happen would increase if as many SW developers as possible is on-board the platform. No OS is better than its community of developers. It's about people, community. Hence my comment that they should do it the MorphOS way - give it away for free at this point to get it as well spread in developer communities as possible, in order to build up a platform that at a later point can be licensed to *the real* customers, where the real money is.

IMHO the optimal thing would be to make sure the OS supports all kind of available PPC hardware and then upload the OS to various file sharing services.

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Kotler 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 12:34:22
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-May-2005
Posts: 255
From: Sweden

@takemehomegrandma

It`s been said from day 1 that AmigaOS4.0 is a commercial OS,
that means you don`t give it away for free.
Just because MorphOS chose a different route - because
a number of reasons - doesn`t mean that Hyperion/Amiga should
do the same.

Of course, they won`t listen to your ideas, since
you are a blue troll, looking for every opportunity
to undermine Hyperion/OS4.0

Last edited by Kotler on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:37 PM.
Last edited by Kotler on 25-Dec-2006 at 12:36 PM.

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Valiant 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 13:09:35
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2003
Posts: 1109
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
@Valiant



There is *no way* a PowerUP version of OS4 can recoupe any kind of development costs. Heck, a commercial level OS4 PUP version would probably not recoupe the investments in time effort and money to make the *PUP release alone*, at least not at any price tag that anyone would consider buying.


I never said anything about it covering the entire development costs, but every bit extra helps.

Quote:

IMHO the optimal thing would be to make sure the OS supports all kind of available PPC hardware and then upload the OS to various file sharing services.


As mentioned again in another message, OS4 is a commercial product. What? Are you advocating piracy? < j/k >

Last edited by Valiant on 25-Dec-2006 at 01:10 PM.

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d0c 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 14:57:57
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2004
Posts: 896
From: UK

@morphos fanboys: if you like morphos and their ways so much, shouldnt you go to morphos sites and start your discussion there?.. i see no point in bringing morphos into this "When os4 for csppc?" post...

and when it comes to paying for the os4 classic i see no problem with this...

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yoodoo2 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 15:37:58
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2003
Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK

I disagree that giving it away free would create fewer support problems: there are far more people out there that would expect it to "just work" with all sorts of hardware add-ons, when really it is the producers of the hardware who should provide support and updates (and obviously won't as they mostly no longer exist).

If OS4 for Classics come with a list of supported hardware and a 80 Euro price tag, people are more inclined to check out the requirements and limitations before spending their cash. Hyperion must state very clearly what does (and therefore what doesn't) work so that buyers know exactly what they are getting and therefore what they can expect to have support for.

My suggested list would include:
Built in A1200, A3000 and A400 hardware (+ common
CPPC and BPPC turbo cards, preferably with onboard SCSI working where relevant
CVision and BVision graphics cards.
The most common IDE expansionsz

Bounties could be raised for other stuff like clockport expansions etc (or contact Jens)

Mediator support should be provided by or paid for by Elbox.

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che 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 16:05:30
#39 ]
Member
Joined: 21-May-2005
Posts: 66
From: Binningen / Basel / Switzerland

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
I also think you should offer OS4 for free to classic users. Would make things a lot easier (the only way to do it the MorphOS way really, which may be the only way to do it at all?), and it's not like you would loose a lot of money anyway, but rather perhaps gaining the opportunity of a slightly larger base of SW developers ...


Why for free? I wouldn't complain about paying $50 (or more) once again for OS4.0 CSPPC. MOS_PowerUP isn't free. It's donationware (or some kind of)

Markus

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Eric_S 
Re: When os4 for csppc?
Posted on 25-Dec-2006 17:23:14
#40 ]
Team Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1334
From: Stockholm (Sweden)

Could we turn down the whole fanboy / troll rethoric, ok? Right or not it only turns the discussion sour.

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