Well I don't know, this is bizarre, totally bizarre.

But it's not necessarily a bad thing, because anyone who's been following this story even casually would have known that this has been coming for years. Seems to me that now finally there is a chance to get the mess cleared up and for the situation to move on. UNLESS of course, one court case leads to another...

But I'm guessing that either neither party has much money, in which case it will probably be fairly quickly settled out of court, or else one party has money and the other doesn't, in which case the one without dough will capitulate.

But if Hyperion decides to fight it, looks to me like they have a potential out in clause 2.06 about third party contractors. If they only legally have to hand over bits and pieces that are useless to Amiga, then effectively they've got A Inc over a barrel. Which means that both parties would still have to come to some sort of agreement in order to make any money at all from OS4.

I think my biggest worry in regards to this saga is that A Inc will win the case and then not bother supporting OS4 past this release. They've shown very little interest over the years so I just have to wonder about their commitment.

But yeah - it's all a pretty awful mess right now. However, you know what they say -the darkest hour is just before the dawn and all that...

What sad days!

Although regarding the material presented so far Hyperion seems to be the bad guy I simply don't want OS4 to fall in the hands of the "world’s premier provider of multimedia enabling technologies" , owning the IP of the "third most recognized brand in Europe" and pretending to be on the same level with the real "Amiga Corporation"'s achievements based on the spirit end efforts of people such as Jay Miner or Dave Haynie.

@TheDaddy

Quote:

Where does this leave A-Cube and SAM, and future faster versions of their hardware?

It seems ultimately it leaves them dealing with Amiga Inc for license. There's no reason one or both of these couldn't be chosen as AmiInc's manufacture.


Plaz

@dirigent

Quote:

dirigent wrote: @Seer Quote: "Amiga's new computer, the Amiga A1000, featured a new, powerful operating system - the 'Classic Amiga Operating System', known as Workbench. [...] multi-tasking multi-threaded operating system. [...]" Let's hope the Twins don't read this, they may die of a heart attack or of laughter! -- edit: well not really, having read the full document now.. serious stuff.

LOL! Amiga Inc. just proofs they even ignore the products they are selling...

Real Amigans knew from ages that AmigaOS is the whole OS, AmigaDOS is just the commands for the command line, and Workbench it is the graphical windowed system...

I think that this declaration when presented to a court could subtract many points to Amiga Inc. position into that trial...

Hope that Hyperion lawyer will point these absurd statements from Amiga Inc.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@uboat

Quote:

I think my biggest worry in regards to this saga is that A Inc will win the case and then not bother supporting OS4 past this release. They've shown very little interest over the years so I just have to wonder about their commitment.

Perhaps the reason why is explained by them not wishing to help make Hyperion more powerful in the relationship. If they win the courtcase, they'll get full control of their own software again for the first time in a long time.

If they had no interest in OS4 then they would never have turned over company secrets to a rival in the first place. Doing such a thing was (and is - should they lose the case) a very risky venture. Not something done lightly.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@Plaz

I suppose and I hope so, Commodore and Amiga always had one major enemy:" Their managers!"

What a bunch of useless, greedy people we have had!

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@Manu

'the agreement said that Hyperion would exercise its 'best efforts' to release AmigaOS 4 by March 1st, 2002. They obviously failed that date (AOS4 was released 24th December 2006), and hence Amiga Inc. says the contract was broken.'

That's [insert expletive] rich, given that Amiga, Inc have produced nothing.

I've really had enough now.

I mean, everytime something comes close to frutition, Amiga, Inc somehow manage to put a spanner in the works.

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A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs

A1200 - OS3.1: Blizzard IV 030, 64mb ram, 400mb HDD

OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag

Egad!! Just when I thought that Groklaw would have nothing to do once SCO vs IBM (and everybody else essentially!) was laughed out of court along comes this fiasco!
Looks like I'll be spending more time reading Groklaw (for years!). Someone should
email P.J. about this insanity!
:((

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This is a useless contribution. A rant, if you want. Feel free to skip it.

There are lots of thoughts floating in my mind, but by ignoring the thousand details and looking at the whole picture, one word comes to mind: dirt. It's what dominates the picture. How sad that AmigaOS innocently and helplessly lies beneath it

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@saimo

Quote:

How sad that AmigaOS innocently and helplessly lies beneath it

Politics, power and greed. I read the Legal briefing from Amiga Inc. At least it's out in the open now. Makes a great ending for the "On the Edge" book

Never used OS4 probably never will now At least I own and have used an Classic Amiga computer in my lifetime. What have the future generations got to look forward to for fun computing? Consoles are the only way to go for fun computing now! Macs are too expensive and out of reach of the masses. PC's are far too fiddly. Shame Amiga Inc don't see any use for their IP. Their ACK hardware collaboration stinks of one upmanship against Hyperion and frankly they can stick their motherboards on the same waste tip they'll need to stash their unsold Mobile Phone Games.

GAME OVER 1-0 : THE LAWYERS ALWAYS WIN

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD



So true!

Well said...

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

So I have read the statement by Mr. Moss and I must say it seems legitimate and well-written. But here is what I don't get. The original agreement was between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. of Snoqualmie WA. If I am not mistaken, *that* Amiga Inc. was in serious trouble way back when, was failing to pay employees, went to court with Thendic/Genesi, and as a move to save their butts did some magical flip to a *new* Amiga, Inc. described by themselves as "a Delaware corporation". And if I also recall correctly - they sold Amiga OS to a new company - KMOS basically to make sure Genesi didn't get ahold of it.

So, the way I see it - Hyperion is just using their rights as outlined in section 2.07 - "In the event Amiga files for bankruptcy or becomes insolvent..." that they are "..granted an exclusive, perpetual, world-wide and royalty-free right and license to develop (at their sole expense), use, modify and market the Software and OS 4 under the "Amiga OS" trademark."

Hmm.... So I guess the real question is, is the Amiga Inc. of today considered the same corporate entity that originally entered into the agreement with Hyperion? If not (and if Hyperion did not enter into a new contract), and the old Amiga Inc. did actually become insolvent - then I guess they can do whatever the heck they want with the OS.

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Van_M Amiga Inc do *not* have a lot of money IMHO, they just create the *appearance* of having a lot of money, for the purposes of the lawsuit. If the lawsuit succeeds, Hyperion pays the bill. If the lawsuit fails, Amiga Inc can be bankrupted, Bill doesn't loose anything, and maybe the remaining IP can be sold for a pittance (probably right back to Pentti Kouri).

What about the Ken centre?

@markus_wankus

Well interpreted. And if Delaware Amiga still is the "old" Amiga company in any way: when am I going to receive my T-Shirt and my discount coupon

@Yssing

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Yssing wrote: Oh my god!!! No one stands to gain anything from this.

I think your'e totally wrong there.

Hyperion, AInc, and the users, stand to gain nothing from this I agree,
but THE (only) BIG WINNERS WILL BE THE LAWYERS, as usual.

You would think Bill McEwan would have realised, with their legal experiences gained over the last few years.

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Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@jorkany

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jorkany wrote: ]You're on the money with this one though. It will be interesting to see if the judge can be fooled.

You mean by AInc's submissions.
I don't think Hyperion are as daft, or stupid, as people are crediting them.
We have only heard AInc's side of the story, which has been shown in this thread to be full of several holes, and mis-interpretations.

Lets wait for Hyperions take on this, or should I say Hyperions lawyers take on this.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@ChrisH

Quote:

The big quest is WHY the written contract was never updated. It's a big mystery, and one that has doubtless caused Hyperion lots of problems.

The big question is WHY Hyperion went ahead with their mammuth development plans *without* an updated contract as a ground for it? THAT has doubtless caused Hyperion lots of problems...

Its funny (or not ?) how people were under the impression the Amiga Scene means Anarchy. Well, Amiga was and is an owned brand. That's just what it is. No matter how you turn it. Some might have speculated that the owner might die or would be too weak to defend their IP. But, well, surprise, surprise. Didn't happen. Quite the opposite.
There is just one solution, IMO, accept the fact and move on. Some people might have placed a wrong bet. That's tragic, but #### happens (been there, done that - twice now).

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AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Geennaam

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Geennaam wrote: @Geennaam I think that Hyperion will use 2.07 and try to convince the jury that AmigaInc filed for bankruptcy before the assets where tranferred to kmos. Remember the inventory sale?

Bankruptcy is a legal term that cannot be applied to Amiga Inc, they never declared bankruptcy. The inventory sale was by the gentlemen that rented them the offices after he kicked them out for not paying rent. That in no way means they were bankrupt.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@ChrisH

Quote:

The big quest is WHY the written contract was never updated. It's a big mystery,

That's true. Maybe Hyperion was hoping to be able to use the bankruptcy statement of the contract. But then, according to Exhibit K after McEwen's statement (the reply to Messrs Hermans and Verva), Hyperion was trying to reach a "mutually satisfactory solution of this matter." This doesn't sound as if they were pursuing a very aggressive strategy at the moment.

But also I wonder why AI didn't take them to court much earlier, as it was known within this community for a long long time already that Hyperion changed their plans for OS4, which according to AI's statements now they should have realised much earlier was not in agreement with the contract. Maybe lack of money.

ACK said that he "saw it [the current development] coming". So I guess other involved parties also realized the problems as they proceeded. Would be nice to know what they were thinking.