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jtsiren 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 10:04:52
#221 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

Agreed, ACK missed another oppotunity for goodwill here. It is good that one board got shipped and hopefully others will get shipped soon, but the delays again just underline how hard it is to trust ACK's announcements. They choose to make the announcements (with self-imposed dates, schedules and all) and then fail to follow-up on them or at least without major delays time and time again.

Only ACK can improve and fix that. We can try and apply pressure, but as long as ACK fails to remedy the situation themselves (not make announcements they can't keep, follow-up timely on those announcements that they did make) the situation will not really improve PR-wise.

The fact that applying pressure helps means ACK is not a complete hoax of course, but that only helps a little since the trust isn't there due to constant failure to deliver on announcements. It doesn't really help if we feel ACK is sincere in trying if years of experience with them means they likely can't deliver what they say they will.

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koan 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 10:32:12
#222 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@jtsiren

Quote:
ACK missed another oppotunity for goodwill here


Goodwill ? You are joking I hope. It is not goodwill to return boards that do not belong to you. If I were missing a board I would be looking for it's return, with legal action if necessary.

I think people like fairlanefastback thought that this thread might be a way to progress the Amiga community's relationship with ACK, get a few boards sent back and generate some discussion about practical future Amiga hardware possibilities. From my part I always thought this is way too ambitious, I believe that it will be a struggle to get those boards back to their rightful owners.

Quote:
The fact that applying pressure helps means ACK is not a complete hoax of course, but that only helps a little


You're more of an optimist than I am. What has ACK actually delivered upon ? You seem to want to work together with someone who doesn't. Apparently he doesn't have time to ship things promptly but he can make press announcements, participate in IRC discussions and he posts here when he thinks he can stir up some interest. He rarely answers important questions like "where is my board?" unless there is the threat of legal action.

The only thing that we can try is continued pressure for the return of these boards and that is all.

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jtsiren 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 10:45:26
#223 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

@koan

Quote:
Goodwill ? You are joking I hope. It is not goodwill to return boards that do not belong to you. If I were missing a board I would be looking for it's return, with legal action if necessary.

Two separate issues - goodwill towards the community was what I meant. If they had delivered on all those cases of repairs in the schedule they themselves announced a few weeks ago, they would have gotten goodwill from the community and a small step towards building trust. A small step given the history, but a step nonetheless. This of course in no way negates their responsibilities or lack of previous delivery towards existing customers. I may have chosen to word my message politely this time, but I am very critical of ACK.

Of course, ACK failed to get that goodwill by missing this opportunity again. Why they continue to make announcements (especially schedule) they can't keep is beyond me.

Quote:
You're more of an optimist than I am. What has ACK actually delivered upon ? You seem to want to work together with someone who doesn't. Apparently he doesn't have time to ship things promptly but he can make press announcements, participate in IRC discussions and he posts here when he thinks he can stir up some interest. He rarely answers important questions like "where is my board?" unless there is the threat of legal action.

ACK has delivered at least one board, albeit late, of their last round of repairs related promises. That is something. This of course is preceded by a number of announcements over the years which they have not delivered on, and at least two repairs cases that are still pending despite their latest promises few weeks ago... So, that "something" is very little, but still something to believe they probably are not a hoax per se, just a company that has a really hard time getting things done and continue to promise too much - which may amount to a hoax in practical terms when it goes on and on for years, but I'm just saying I doubt ACK is in it to fool anyone out of their money or the like. (I refer to them as a company, because that is how they present themselves, but I do realize it is probably just one person.)

I agree the benefits of pressure seems limited in scope and of course we shouldn't HAVE to be doing this, ACK should just be delivering as they announce - and if they can't, they should retract the announcements, announce revised schedules or lack there-of without indignant snaps at critics and, of course, return unrepaired boards/money to customers if there are such. I am not trying to extend them endless benefit of doubt, see my previous commentary in the last thread on the subject, but I would welcome them improving their act - although even that wish is wearing thin these days...

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 15:52:27
#224 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@koan

Quote:

I think people like fairlanefastback thought that this thread might be a way to progress the Amiga community's relationship with ACK, get a few boards sent back and generate some discussion about practical future Amiga hardware possibilities. From my part I always thought this is way too ambitious, I believe that it will be a struggle to get those boards back to their rightful owners.


All the effort so far I think has been worth getting that one board back to its rightful owner. Secondly we've further seen that ACK's ability to deliver new Amiga hardware is extremely dubious at best IMO. But we have continuously taken the high road, even if Adam will not. We still are ready to get behind him if he starts to treat the community with respect and show us some legitimacy to his supposed projects. His claims to return equipment to Ivan and Kneedeep are documented here. Should he not return said hardware now Ivan and Kneedeep have even more to bring to the authorities if they choose to do so. So even though this has been like pulling teeth at least again one person has what was improperly held equipment back, and we know not to hold too much hope out for much of any chance for PowerVixxen or new Amigas from his firm (IMO). We better know what is realistic to expect now. But yet we stay open to give the firm an opportunity to redeem itself. So for as much as what is in our power to do, (keep this thread alive until our community brothers have their stuff back) I think this has been an excellent community effort.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 15:55:23
#225 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@jtsiren

Quote:
I agree the benefits of pressure seems limited in scope and of course we shouldn't HAVE to be doing this, ACK should just be delivering as they announce - and if they can't, they should retract the announcements, announce revised schedules or lack there-of without indignant snaps at critics and, of course, return unrepaired boards/money to customers if there are such. I am not trying to extend them endless benefit of doubt, see my previous commentary in the last thread on the subject, but I would welcome them improving their act - although even that wish is wearing thin these days...


Well said, I agree.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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TiredofLife 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 16:22:13
#226 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1702
From: Here

I think we must be getting to the end of the road as far as goodwill to ACK from the community is concerned.
It has taken a concerted effort from the community just to have one machine returned.
Although well worth the time effort and patience shown by all here.
Well done to all, especially Fairlanefasback.
All the community have asked for is to be given realistic dates and updates when necessary and to be shown a little evidence of what progress has been made.
Not a great deal to ask for I would say.

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 16:50:29
#227 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@koan, etc
I am hesitant to permanently judge ACK yet, because among other reasons (a) the return of one board gives us some hope that the rest may follow, and (b) judging ACK now greatly reduces his incentive for returning the remaining boards.

Don't get me wrong: ACK has lost his chance to show his ability to timely meet his self-imposed schedules (yet again). But I am willing to allow another week or so for the return of another board, before concluding that he was intentionally misleading us (and/or is completely unreliable).

_________________
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ironfist 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 27-Jul-2007 18:09:16
#228 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 770
From: Pegasos.org

ChrisH:
What do you mean? We judged him a long time ago.

Last edited by ironfist on 27-Jul-2007 at 06:09 PM.

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koan 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 28-Jul-2007 13:47:36
#229 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@fairlanefastback

Quote:
All the effort so far I think has been worth getting that one board back to its rightful owner


I agree. It has been a lot of effort (how many posts?!) but getting one board back has made it worth it.

I genuinely feel it's a shame that ACK couldn't prove the sceptics (including me) wrong.

Oh well, Amigans are used to this feeling...

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koan 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 28-Jul-2007 13:51:32
#230 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@ChrisH

What do you want to do, judge ACK in "two more weeks" ?

Quote:
judging ACK now greatly reduces his incentive for returning the remaining boards


I think those two owners have to use the only incentive that we know to work: legal action. Sitting here posting "Well ACK is probably a good bloke, just a bit busy at the moment" isn't going to cut it, is it ? AmigaAbbatoir made a complaint to a customer support organisation and then he got his board back. I don't like having to resort to that kind of action myself, but it seems the only way.

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 29-Jul-2007 17:22:42
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@koan, ironfist
I know exactly what you mean, but before there is a crusade against ACK, I think we should give him another week (or perhaps two) to full-fill his latest promises - given that he has already met one (albeit under duress & rather late).

At least that way, if anyone question's our sincerity, we can say "we bent over backwards for ACK". I.E. No one can doubt that we gave ACK more than enough time to do what he said he would do.

edit: Tell you what, why not wait until 8th August? That will have been one whole month after his original promise, and thus over 4 times the original estimate for when they should get their stuff back. I can't see even his biggest supporters being able to argue with that.

Last edited by ChrisH on 29-Jul-2007 at 05:26 PM.

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koan 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 30-Jul-2007 0:39:20
#232 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@ChrisH

I think we already bent over backwards for ACK, but sure, let's wait until August 8th.

To be really fair, shouldn't we get the people who claim to chat to ACK on IRC to let him know and give him a chance to respond ?

Finally, if there is no development then shouldn't there be some sort of sanction ? For example, on August 9th we start a thread "ACK totally unreliable" and resolve to always post references to this thread to any "Maybe ACK can come through?" type threads (while being careful not to troll).

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 1-Aug-2007 9:26:23
#233 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@koan
I see ACK's latest (self-imposed) commitment as a final clear-cut test of whether he can do what he says, or whether he's just full of s***. If he can't even come through on this very simple promise, after having held those A1s for years, and after (he himself says) his situation has improved - then I will consider it proven that ACK's words cannot be trusted.

And if it is proven that ACK's words cannot be trusted, then certain things logically follow on from that. IMHO, your suggestions would only be the tip of the iceberg...


OTOH, if ACK does come through (albeit up to a ridiculously 1 month late), then I am willing to give ACK the benefit of the doubt about his other promises for now - although I will not believe any schedule that he ever gives. And I would still like to see some pictures of his past projects (abandoned or not, working or not), to at least prove he probably has the technical ability.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 1-Aug-2007 9:46:21
#234 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@koan who said Quote:
To be really fair, shouldn't we get the people who claim to chat to ACK on IRC to let him know and give him a chance to respond ?

Well, he seems to log in quite regularly, and I'm pretty certain he follows this thread (albeit mostly in silence), but just to set your conscience to rest I'll give him a PM. But feel free to get someone to also give him a heads-up on IRC if you want.

P.S. Anyone now how to contact Jens? It'd be helpful to know if ACK followed through on his 4th promise.

Last edited by ChrisH on 01-Aug-2007 at 09:50 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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number6 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 1-Aug-2007 21:45:12
#235 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Ackcontrls or more appropriately BillM

http://www.amiga.com/news/index.php?art=26
April 22, 2007
Quote:
Manufacturing and final price information along with product launch schedules will be following in the next week.


http://www.amiga.com/news/index.php?art=27
April 29, 2007
Quote:
Manufacturing partner and final ship schedule will be following soon.


ok. Promised one week after April 22 and delivered the price information.
Good.

Any word on who the manufacturing partner is or the ship schedule.
It's been a tad later than "soon" now...

#6

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number6 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 2-Aug-2007 4:50:03
#236 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@ChrisH

Quote:
P.S. Anyone now how to contact Jens?


I have some webpage links with addresses here:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23813&forum=2&13

#6

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Kneedeep 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 2-Aug-2007 4:52:59
#237 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 430
From: West of the Mississippi

Hi,

I was asked if I have gotten my A1 board back yet. I am very sad to say no. I am not sure what is the correct action. The time will come that the board will not have much value, it may be at that point already? How much of my time is it worth now? For now I will let Adam deal with this, he knows what he should do. My two cents.

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koan 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 2-Aug-2007 5:44:59
#238 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@Kneedeep

I'm sorry to hear that. Although your board is broken, I believe other people are qualified to fix it. I think it does have value and you should pursue it's return. After all, even if it's a broken board it's your broken board.

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 2-Aug-2007 9:47:15
#239 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@number6
Thanks for the pointer. Email sent to Jens, but I dunno if we will hear anything back.

edit:
@Kneedeep
I agree with Koan: AmigaOnes are still VERY much in demand, and thus still very valuable! So I really do think you should try to pursue the matter, even if you end up selling it...

Last edited by ChrisH on 02-Aug-2007 at 09:50 AM.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
Posted on 2-Aug-2007 12:20:50
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

Jens was very quick in reply. With his permission I am quoting exactly what he said:
Quote:
Quote:
Hello Jens,

If you look at the AmigaWorld thread below, you will see that on 8th July ACK said "4) Cash flow has improved and the issue with Jens will be finalized within a couple weeks.":


interesting. He did not contact me yet. Last contact was fairly negative, as he told me to go "elsewhere" for the A1200 CPU slot connectors, because I have been digging up some dirt in the background. Nothing that I want to publish. The Amigaworld posting was *after* that, so he might have calmed down by then.

Quote:
P.S. If you cannot post on AmigaWorld, I would be happy to post any comments on your behalf.


Please do that, as I'm currently extremely busy

(The bold emphasis is mine, and I cut the end of his email as it had nothing to do with ACK.)

While I am far more interested in the return of those AmigaOnes, this isn't a good sign IMHO.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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