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Legion 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 0:01:33
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA

I swear to god, this community is becoming Bizarro-World.

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...wait... what?

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Colin_Camper 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 0:54:24
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2003
Posts: 1188
From: Unknown

@amitv

Quote:
I think i can't give any info at this moment. More news in few weeks.


Do you think anyone here cares? Maybe you should try this line over at Amigans.net.

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Zardoz 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 0:56:11
#63 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@amitv

Quote:
I've received more info from Ainc. This time at the bottom of the e-mail i read: "Confidential". I think i can't give any info at this moment. More news in few weeks.


Wow, now that's exciting. I won't be able to sleep at night. Zzzz.

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wegster 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 1:02:37
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

More entertaining but go nowhere prior AI 'news' - I can't believe it was in 2000:
Paul Nolan 'hired,' 'partnered with Ruksun to produce email client for 'Amiga,' 'partners with Red Hat', it just never ends, or at least not in actual products
http://amiga.czex.com/local2000/28_8aun000827.html

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Plaz 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 3:30:18
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1562
From: Atlanta

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
I know plenty of folks that have a land and mobile business line


Well yes, of course you can have a desk and a mobile. I was asking if there is a mobile device that can have multiple separate lines/numbes as a taditional office phone might. Like I dial mobile number1, it rings distint ring1.... "hello this is Plaz". Or I dial mobile number2, it rings distint ring2.... "Hello, Junk Computer Parts Inc, how can I help you?"

Plaz

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samface 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 3:31:56
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Unknown

@PhantomInterrogative

Quote:
If that ends up being the case, they will want people like Mr. Krueger to foster development for their newly acquired/stolen OS.


Considering that they are taking *legal* action as a measure to acquire the AmigaOS from Hyperion, the outcome will either be that they are legally entitled to it and therefore granted access to it or that they are not legally entitled to it and therefore not granted access to it. The definition of theft is when you take possession of something you do not own without the real owner's permission. Naturally, this will not be the case for any of the possible outcomes of the ongoing legal proceedings.

As a metaphor to easier describe what this case is about; your mechanic might decide keep your car until you pay for the repairs you hired him to make, but would it be theft if you decide to take legal action to get your car back when you have paid and the mechanic still refuses to give you your car back? It doesn't matter if it turns out that you paid too late or whatever else reason their might be for you to loose your rights to that car, it's not to steal to excercise your rights to a fair trial and any outcome in a court of law is never illegal.

Furtermore, I don't get why some people seem to think that Amiga Inc. should simply give AmigaOS4 to Hyperion for free. It's irrelevant wether Amiga Inc. never added a single line of code to the AmigaOS themselves or not or whatever else reason you might have to dislike them, it's still their product that they paid millions of dollars for. If they want to lock it up in a vault for collecting dust over the next couple of decades, it's in their right to do so with whatever they own.

But they chose not to do this. They decided to allow Hyperion continue development. Hyperion was even granted an exclusive, royalty free license to develop and sell a new version of the AmigaOS. Again, these rights cost Amiga Inc. millions. The only catch was that upon completion of AmigaOS4, Amiga Inc. would be able to take development back "in house" and be granted access to all AmigaOS source codes produced by Hyperion for the amount of $25,000. The contract with these terms was drafted by Hyperion's own managing partner, Ben Hermans. Amiga Inc. was in no way obligated to give Hyperion this license agreement and Hyperion hasn't had to pay Amiga Inc. a dime for it either. Yet, Hyperion seems to not be satisfied with this. They want to keep it and they want to keep it for free. In fact, they want even more and are now challanging Amiga Inc's rights to the Amiga name.

At the same time, it seems that Hyperion hasn't even produced most of the sources for AmigaOS4 themselves. As it turns out, most of it has been done by third party contractors that are now also suing Hyperion, for not paying them. So, without paying the price for the rights nor the work behind it, Hyperion seem to be trying to take it all and exploit it as they please. I'm *really* not so sure it would be appropriate to accuse Amiga Inc. of stealing the AmigaOS from Hyperion...

Last edited by samface on 30-Jan-2008 at 04:58 AM.

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redfox 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 4:03:57
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1598
From: Canada

Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger

If this is true ...

Good luck to you Jamie.

redfox

Last edited by redfox on 30-Jan-2008 at 04:27 AM.

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CodeSmith 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 5:02:11
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@samface

Quote:
As a personal side note, I'm getting the impression that alot of people are disregarding the fact that Hyperion, just like Amiga Inc., hasn't added much code to the AmigaOS either.

I think the vast majority of us here is aware that Hyperion has consisted of only one or two people for quite a few years now. I personally, when talking about OS4, use the term "Hyperion" as shorthand for "the group of programmers and testers hired by Hyperion".

Quote:
Most, if not all, seems to be done by third party contractors that are also suing Hyperion, for not paying them. If this is true, it would mean that even if the outome of the Amiga Inc. vs Hyperion court case goes in Hyperion's favor, AmigaOS4 would still not be Hyperion's.

True, but it would belong to the people who wrote OS4, as opposed to a set of people who have been either ignoring it or actively sabotaging its future by refusing to sell licenses to prospective hardware manufacturers.

It doesn't matter anyway, technology is not standing still and by the time the lawsuit gets resolved, OS4 won't have anything left to offer. Portables like cell phones and PDAs already have CPUs that run at hundreds of MHz and have several MB of memory, so very soon running "heavyweight" OSs like Windows XP on your handheld won't be a problem (heck, iPhones run MacOSX already). OS4's major advantage, its low resource requirements, won't be important any more and the only thing left will be the lack of modern features like full OpenGL or a JVM.

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eniacfoa 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 6:31:17
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

well, hopefully fran dramis and jamie krueger can help make a difference.

i dont care whether they focus on OS4 or AA2 at this point. i just want them to focus on something and stick with it. OS4 not running on x86 is probably out of my reach anyway with ppc cards being expensive.

geez they need to fork out a little bit of money for a better website. its pretty lame, if they have new investors it should be updated, potential developers/customers see that? not good.
and its not like its such a major expense either. its what? a few thousand bucks to pay for a pro looking site?


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JamieKrueger 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 6:53:57
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2004
Posts: 146
From: From the BITbyBIT lab: USA

@all

Hello everyone, I have just posted the following on my website
and thought I should post it here as well:

"Today Amiga Inc. publicly announced my decision to officially join forces with them,
and come on board as a full time employee. I am confident that working directly with
Amiga, and helping to reach our mutual goals, is the best way I can support the Amiga
Community at this time.

I know there are questions and concerns about how this impacts the AVD and FreeAVD
project. Please let me assure you that if I did not believe this to be a positive move toward
the completion and delivery of AVD, I would not have made it. Equally, if for any reason
completed software can NOT be delivered to anyone who has already made an advance
purchase, I will personally see that 100% of all collected funds are returned in full.
This project has always been open, honest, and above board; with the sole aim of helping
to bring more developers, and hence more software, to the Amiga platform.

I foresee great things for the future of the Amiga platform, and as always I greatly
appreciate your support."

Best Regards,

Jamie Krueger


_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

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wegster 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 7:04:03
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@JamieKrueger
Hi Jamie,

I think most wish you the best of luck personally; but many of us just don't see how that might be GOOD luck in dealing with AI.

Good luck. I still hope to see AVD be useful, ON OS4, at some point. Until then, I'd simply say I hope you get paid for whatever the work is.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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samface 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 7:09:30
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

Well, I was editing the post you're quoting here while you wrote this post so the quote is unfortunately obselete but I did write it and I'll still answer, of course.

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:
@samface

Quote:
As a personal side note, I'm getting the impression that alot of people are disregarding the fact that Hyperion, just like Amiga Inc., hasn't added much code to the AmigaOS either.

I think the vast majority of us here is aware that Hyperion has consisted of only one or two people for quite a few years now. I personally, when talking about OS4, use the term "Hyperion" as shorthand for "the group of programmers and testers hired by Hyperion".


I read you loud and clear here. However, then you say...

Quote:
Quote:
Most, if not all, seems to be done by third party contractors that are also suing Hyperion, for not paying them. If this is true, it would mean that even if the outome of the Amiga Inc. vs Hyperion court case goes in Hyperion's favor, AmigaOS4 would still not be Hyperion's.

True, but it would belong to the people who wrote OS4, as opposed to a set of people who have been either ignoring it or actively sabotaging its future by refusing to sell licenses to prospective hardware manufacturers.


...where you clearly differentiate Hyperion from their hired programmers and testers. Perhaps it would be less confusing if you were a little bit more consistent?

What I'm trying to say is that the same arguments used against Amiga Inc., eg that they would be "people who have been either ignoring it or actively sabotaging its future", can also be applied to Hyperion, the company.

Besides, I fail to see how granting Hyperion this exclusive license agreement to develop AmigaOS4 and sell it royalty free would be to actively sabotaging it's future nor igoring it. On the contrary, I would agree to that sentiment if they hadn't.

And please stop blaming Amiga Inc. for Hyperion's doings. Things would probably have been very different if Hyperion had delivered on time as they were bound to by the contract and all rights handed back to Amiga Inc. when they payed. Now that Hyperion have delayed completion by several years, violated the agreement and refused to deliver AmigaOS4 to Amiga Inc., why in god's name would Amiga Inc. grant them any license to develop for more hardware? In fact, it wasn't until recently that they finally fulfilled their obligations to release AmigaOS4 for the hardware devices mentioned in the original license agreement, eg the AmigaOne AND PPC equipped Amiga1200/4000's. It wouldn't be very appropriate to demand a license for more hardware to develop for while they still haven't completed their current undertakings, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
It doesn't matter anyway, technology is not standing still and by the time the lawsuit gets resolved, OS4 won't have anything left to offer. Portables like cell phones and PDAs already have CPUs that run at hundreds of MHz and have several MB of memory, so very soon running "heavyweight" OSs like Windows XP on your handheld won't be a problem (heck, iPhones run MacOSX already). OS4's major advantage, its low resource requirements, won't be important any more and the only thing left will be the lack of modern features like full OpenGL or a JVM.


Well, I agree and I disagree. The thing is, people have been saying that bloatware or not is becoming less of an issue as we get better hardware ever since the first operating systems with graphical interfaces came to be. This is because our software is getting more and more bloated at about the same speed as we get faster hardware. That's why Windows feels just as slow today as it did 10 years ago, despite the humongous improvements in performance on today's hardware.

But agreed, AmigaOS is simply far too behind anything else in the market for the lightweight argument to be able to compensate. However, an interesting trend in the market not completely Amiga unrelated is the increased use of application virtualization, aka "hypervisors", provided by tools such as Softgrid (Microsoft) and Thinstall (VMWare). It's applications with "built-in" hardware virtualization technologies that enables the application to be run on virtually any computer, completly independant of the OS. Yeah, we've heard this before, right? We already got Java, right? Wrong, this is different.

A JavaVM or the .NET environment are operating system hosted virtual machines and are therefore highly OS dependant solutions. A hypervisor runs directly on the hardware and is therefore not dependant of the OS in the same manner as Java or .NET. The difference is where it runs.

There are also different kinds of hypervisors, some that is launched as an application within a host OS but still runs directly on the hardware in an exokernel like mode in it's seperate adress space outside the kernel of the OS, like VirtualPC on Windows. And of course there are the ones that boots on the hardware directly on it's own.

Anyhow, it's a quite clear trend now that even Microsoft is going for a hardware virtualisation solution and market analysts are estimating hardware virtualisation as the greatest threat to Windows today. I'm not sure how AA2 is going to do up against Microsoft and VMWare, but I must say that they really got the right idea, long before many others even understood what it was all about and simply dismissed it as just another VMM. I simply cannot stop hoping, wishing that their ideas will actually materialize in one form or another.

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Seer 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 7:18:02
#73 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

@samface & CodeSmith

Please get back on the topic.

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ShadesOfGrey 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 7:18:18
#74 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2003
Posts: 290
From: Unknown

Moving to a separate thread... This post was off topic here as per Seer's warning.

Last edited by ShadesOfGrey on 30-Jan-2008 at 07:27 AM.
Last edited by ShadesOfGrey on 30-Jan-2008 at 07:27 AM.
Last edited by ShadesOfGrey on 30-Jan-2008 at 07:20 AM.

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Pleng 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 8:35:07
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

@Plaz

Quote:
Well yes, of course you can have a desk and a mobile. I was asking if there is a mobile device that can have multiple separate lines/numbes as a taditional office phone might. Like I dial mobile number1, it rings distint ring1.... "hello this is Plaz". Or I dial mobile number2, it rings distint ring2.... "Hello, Junk Computer Parts Inc, how can I help you?"


For sure, in the UK it's called "Line 2". I don't think it's particularly popular though because it defeats the object of people having work "mobile" numbers. Most people (myself included) have a work "mobile" so that they can switch it off when they're not at their desk. Yes, I know it pretty much defeats the object of having a mobile phone, but it keeps the boss happy!

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samface 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 9:06:51
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Unknown

@JamieKrueger

Good luck with your new job, Jamie!

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CodeSmith 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 9:13:37
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@Seer

Um, sorry about the threadjack.

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OldFart 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 9:43:42
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2916
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@CodeSmith

Quote:
... or actively sabotaging its future by refusing to sell licenses to prospective hardware manufacturers.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. They "partnered" with Ack to have him produce PPC-hardware. Last thing I heard about Ack's efforts in this respect was that he was polishing up the documentation. (Adam's probably using Vista + the latest Office2008 on a 486@50MHz, but as always; good things come slowly.)

OldFart

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TrevorDick 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 14:27:02
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2636
From: Wellington

@wegster


Quote:
While I feel sort of suckered for paying the initial full price of AVD, and getting nothing really usable out of it,

I know how you feel. I also bought into the AVD project and donated some funds (small amount) to Jamie's development. I just hope he has done the right thing?

TrevorDick

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Tigger 
Re: Amiga inc Hires Jamie Krueger
Posted on 30-Jan-2008 14:54:14
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-May-2003
Posts: 2097
From: Rocket City, USA

Jamie,

Good luck on your new job.
-Tig

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