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      /  [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
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Poll : Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Yes
No
Pancakes
 
PosterThread
ChrisH 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 10:15:06
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Tomas
ACK never responded to the question about an OS4 license (AFAIR), and you know what happened with them...

Personally I think that ACube's secrecy about the OS4 license was simply because they were the first without Amiga Inc's blessing, and they were worried what AI might do if they gave them too much notice. If not fake, Troika would be "just another" mobo for OS4, so there is no reason they would have to worry, and so should (in their own interests) declare whether they have an OS4 agreement with Hyperion or not (or if one is at least in discussion).

edit: But personally I would not delay buying a Sam440, just because of the incredibly small chance that Troika might produce a cheaper motherboard in a year or so. Plus I bet that Troika has not fully accounted for development, testing, *support* (replacement of faulty boards & technical support), etc in their price.

Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Feb-2009 at 10:19 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Feb-2009 at 10:18 AM.

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Rob 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 12:45:54
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@vox

Quote:
I assume CPU is still G3 (PowerPC 750) which should give nice performance


It has already been established that the CPU is an MPC8439E, in fact it is more than a CPU because the MPC8439E is an SOC just like the 440ep in the Sam.

Quote:
However, PCI slot is limiting in GFX choice, so I would like to see SAM comparable board with Radeon 900 128MB as mid price solution.


Looking at the specifications for the evaluation board the 66mhz PCI interface is hooked up to the SATA controller leaving the PCI slot with the 33Mhz interface. Graphics performance would not be as good as the Sam440 in this configuration, to compete they'd need to reconfigure the PCI interfaces.

Quote:
CPU Array should be modular so you can put 1,1GHz G3 or buy it also as an high end option.


The MPC8439E only scales up to 667Mhz and you can't swap it out for a G3 which would require a number of separate support chips for it to access memory and PCI space.

Quote:
Is sound styl Kryptos? Please add something less kryptical adn well integrated. Sound Blaster 128 or Gravis Ultrasound as low end and Sound Blaster Audiigy high end.


Good question. The MC8439E only has 2 PCI interfaces, as stated above one is used for the SATA controller and the other for the PCI slot. Unless Troika add a PCI bridge there'll be no possibility for adding audio to this board, unless you don't mind going without a video card.

This whole Athena thing seems pretty half baked to me and like others I think it's unlikely that a real product will come out of it.

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Troika 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 17:05:09
#203 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jul-2005
Posts: 114
From: Unknown

@Troels

Quote:
1. Have you had contact with Hyperion regarding this board.
2. When will the boards be put to sale, if you decide to go ahead.
3. Will OS4.1 be available
4. Do you have any connections with Amiga Inc or ACK?

Simple questions, please answer


1) Yes, Shipped two systems first Feb. 2007
2} Athena is 99% completed
3) This falls under an NDA and can’t comment
4) AI & Ack No

_________________
Troika NG progress reports & news releases will be released as such, from my office.
ttp://www.troikang.com/ Amy, A NEW HOPE
============================================
Opinions I might express are mine alone,and do not represent those of Troika

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Troika 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 17:28:54
#204 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jul-2005
Posts: 114
From: Unknown

@The_Editor

Quote:
Deliver to me 2 TWO Mobos
A: 2 Ghz min with Pci graphics slot
B: Hyperion blessed ( With O/s 4 > )


A) Delivering a board with a 2GHz PPC is difficult when no parts at that speed grade are readily available from Freescale. We will endeavor to supply you with one of our high end systems when available..

B) I'm sure we would all be interested in a high end system with OS4.x available, until such time as this becomes true, you will have to wait.

Look forward to BB5.



_________________
Troika NG progress reports & news releases will be released as such, from my office.
ttp://www.troikang.com/ Amy, A NEW HOPE
============================================
Opinions I might express are mine alone,and do not represent those of Troika

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:12:14
#205 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1226
From: Athens/Greece

@Troika

Quote:

Troika wrote:
@Troels

Quote:

3. Will OS4.1 be available

3) This falls under an NDA and can’t comment


lol, man you cannot comment on the most important thing! Maybe then we can run AROS on it, orrrrrr something even better... ANUBIS!

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AP 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:35:00
#206 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@Troika

Quote:

Troika wrote:
@Troels

Quote:
1. Have you had contact with Hyperion regarding this board.
2. When will the boards be put to sale, if you decide to go ahead.
3. Will OS4.1 be available
4. Do you have any connections with Amiga Inc or ACK?

Simple questions, please answer


1) Yes, Shipped two systems first Feb. 2007
2} Athena is 99% completed
3) This falls under an NDA and can’t comment
4) AI & Ack No



Strange, in another thread at least Rogue never heard of any PPC-hardware from you at Hyperion (and this was long after Feb. 2007). And at least Rogue should know, if AmigaOS4 is developed for it.

Rouge: "I did not want to imply that you are not working on something, but as long as Hyperion didn't get one, it's not relevant to AmigaOS 4.x."

And this was on 12-Oct-2008!

Also, you answered to Rogue with a link to the Amy05-specs in this thread and didn´t mention "Athena".

BTW: Is TroikaNG a real company? I doubt...

(Mod's note: Fixed link)

Last edited by Yo on 08-Feb-2009 at 08:46 PM.
Last edited by AP on 08-Feb-2009 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by AP on 08-Feb-2009 at 08:36 PM.

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Comi 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:37:16
#207 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2003
Posts: 660
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@ Trojka
Please collect all infos, pictures and the rest and update your site.
Also put the price and tim,e of sale of your board!

Thanks

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:47:03
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@AP

Quote:
Rouge: "I did not want to imply that you are not working on something, but as long as Hyperion didn't get one, it's not relevant to AmigaOS 4.x."


Rouge? oh dear...

But if that IS a quote, then ask yourself if "but as long as Hyperion didn't get one" means the same as "Hyperion didn't get one".

#6

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Caveman 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:48:40
#209 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

FUD
FUD
FUD

Don't belive this hoax again...

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AP 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:48:45
#210 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@Troika: And maybe you should chance your signature. It´s strange, if someone makes "official" announcements and polls on the one hand and one the other hand his signature says "Opinions I might express are mine alone,and do not represent those of Troika".

(BTW: I think you ARE TroikaNG, because there isn´t a real company behind. You have this account here, a website and some photos of a developer-board. And that´s it. Prove me the opposite, if I am wrong.)

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AP 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:52:10
#211 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@number6
I allready fixed my typos, before I read your post. And of course it IS a quote.

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AP 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 20:54:25
#212 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@Yo
Thank you for fixing my link!

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ChrisH 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 21:02:45
#213 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Troika Quote:

Quote:
3. Will OS4.1 be available

3) This falls under an NDA and can’t comment

How very lucky for you! I have an NDA (which I just wrote & signed myself now) that prevents me from saying how full of **** I suspect you are...

Quote:
Quote:
1. Have you had contact with Hyperion regarding this board.

1) Yes, Shipped two systems first Feb. 2007

I'm sorry, but THATS A BLATANT LIE. On 12th October 2008 Rogue said:
"Hyperion has not received any Amy'05 or Panda board from Troika."
and
"I just wanted to refute any rumor that we have gotten an Amy05 or Panda board from you."

It is also clear from Rogue's posts that they had not received ANYTHING from you (inc Athena) - his naming Amy & Panda was simply because those were the only names you had invented at the time.

Quote:
2} Athena is 99% completed

Come on, you haven't even manufactured, let alone TESTED, a prototype (or you wouldn't have tried to imply that a pic of an evaluation board was the real thing).


The fact that you avoid answering virtually all questions that are even slightly difficult just shows that you are not honest. If you were then you would answer them as best you could, rather than have to choose between (a) saying nothing, and (b) making a lie & risk being shown-up as lying. ACK did the exactly the same thing.

Last edited by ChrisH on 09-Feb-2009 at 08:54 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Feb-2009 at 09:06 PM.

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yoodoo2 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 21:26:26
#214 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2003
Posts: 1332
From: Stourbridge, UK

There may be a subtle distinction between Troika sending boards to Hyperion and Troika sending boards to high profile developers who are working on aspects of OS4 but who may not necessarily be part of Hyperion.

At least one high profile developer used to have "Troika Panda" or some such as part of his signature.

My own feeling is that Troika is an enthusiastic community member trying to put together something worthwhile, but perhaps without the backup needed to make it a reality. My suggestion would be to approach and work with ACube on either a very low end board (sub £200) or a high end board for the 10 members of the community who could justify it to their wives.

Personally, I wish a budding entrepreneur would throw some money into software development - Video App please!





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Mikey_C 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 21:35:39
#215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@The_Editor

Quote:

The_Editor wrote:
@Troika

Deliver to me 2 TWO Mobos

A: 2 Ghz min with Pci graphics slot
B: Hyperion blessed ( With O/s 4 > )

And I will hold Big Bash FIVE

The first Mobo will be in the Revolving case that Rigo made. Yes I still have it in my garage.
The second Mobo will be a fully installed and running version for people to "fiddle about" with

We could even raffle off the Mobo display at the end of the night.


Balls in your court.


I agree fully with what you say mate and would additionally add that I am not interest in organising an Amiga show unless I can get a 100% guarantee that an Amiga Vendor will have mobo's to sell on the day of the show. I have lost count of the times when we have been promised new hardware available to sell on the day, to find that the consignment hasn't even made it to the UK.

I'm not interested in organising a get together just for the sake of it, the numbers attending is just too sad to contemplate.

Mikey C

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Doobrey 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 23:11:23
#216 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 276
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:

Quote:
2} Athena is 99% completed

Come on, you haven't even manufactured, let alone TESTED, a prototype (or you wouldn't have tried to imply that a pic of an evaluation board was the real thing).


You're forgetting that Troika are starting off with a reference board and then removing parts of it, so it won't be at a prototype stage until 'Athena' is 72% complete

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Rogue 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 8-Feb-2009 23:39:30
#217 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:
It is also clear from Rogue's posts that they had not received ANYTHING from you (inc Athena) - his naming Amy & Panda was simply because those were the only names you had invented at the time.


Actually, I named Amy05 and Panda because Hyperion did not receive either. I did not say that Hyperion did not receive any other board, because that is covered by an NDA.

So, what I implied in that post is not that Hyperion did not receive anything from Troika, just that Hyperion did not receive either an Amy'05 or Panda board.

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KimmoK 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 9-Feb-2009 9:34:35
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

I got SAM and I'm looking forward to get Peg2, so...


I'm interested in more powerfull machines (that are in production, peg2 is no more).
(1Ghz+ PPC CPU, L2, DDR2 slots, PCI-E, 800¤ including AOS4PRO)

And a lot cheaper machines.
(below1Ghz PPC, 512M, OCS or AA or Natami GFX, 300¤ including AOS4LITE)

And about laptop.
(below1Ghz PPC, 512M, OCS or AA or Natami GFX, 10"...13" LCD 800¤ including AOS4PRO)

No more developerboards to end users please.


And...

How about using already existing R&D power of the Amiga community rather than starting from 0.
(bplan and ACube seem to be capable of delivering working boards, especially bplan has a long history of doing so. And perhaps Elbox could assist in cheap production.)

Last edited by KimmoK on 09-Feb-2009 at 09:46 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 09-Feb-2009 at 09:34 AM.

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//
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ChrisH 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 9-Feb-2009 9:42:50
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Rogue
Many thanks for the clarification, this was the kind of thing I looking for from you/Hyperion. It seems I did not interpret what you said correctly (I make mistakes & am happy to admit them - I just wish Troika was).

OK, you seem to be implying that you received a board other than Amy or Panda from Troika. This puts your prior statement into new light:
Quote:
The last thing I would like to see is people shying away from buying a SAM because they think that there is any work going on on a G3 or G4 based board.


So you knew about Athena, and that it had a low-powered processor similar to the SAM, and didn't want anyone expecting a high-powered motherboard because you hadn't seen one yet. But you can't explicitly say so because of a stupid NDA - sigh.


@Troika
OK, it seems that I was mistaken about you, so I apologies. Let me explain why I (and a lot of other people) came to the conclusion you were probably a hoax of some sort:

Several (3-4?) years ago you promised the Amy'05 motherboard, when we had nothing to run OS4. And there were promises of showing it at two(?) Amiga shows in the UK, but that never happened. IIRC the first time you didn't explain why (we suspect the board was not manufactured yet), and the second time gave the excuse that it was stuck in customs (which could have been easily foreseen due to the terrorist problems of the time). So that was the first strike against your credibility.

There was also a competition for the design of a case. We never heard the result of that, AFAIK, which again does not look good.

After failing to show the Amy'05 (beyond a derided DPaint-like schematic) you then announced ANOTHER board - the Panda. This time it was based upon an existing design, rather than being designed from scratch. Many felt it was daft that you were splitting your efforts on two boards, but perhaps an existing design would allow you to produce something. As we know now, nothing good resulted from that either.

The real problem is that you NEVER gave any explanation for either board not seeing the light of day. Not even a "Sorry for letting you down, we screwed-up X because of Y". This pretty much ensured that you had zero credibility, because you had 100% appearance of a bad hoax.


Roll the clock forward to 2009, and here you are again promising yet ANOTHER motherboard. Except you appear to have learned nothing from your earlier PR disasters. You start by trying to "tease" us with few details, repeating your earlier behaviour for Amy & Panda - except because of your low credibility, the lack of information comes across as trying to hide facts. For example, you show us a picture of a reference motherboard, but try to talk it up as some kind of 'Athena developer board', until people point out what it really is. What may have been an honest (if misguided) attempt at omitting truth like some successful (if not very honest) advertisers do, turned into another disaster.

To be perfectly frank, you need to be MUCH MUCH more open with us. Dribbling a few facts (and especially not replying to valid questions) just comes across trying to hide the truth. You have to realise that just because your answers may be embarrassing to you (such as "here's a reference motherboard we are basing Athena on" or "we have problems with the design of Amy 05, the prototype didn't work reliably"), it does not mean the PR result will be bad (or at least not as bad as the alternative). On the contrary, showing honesty lets us come to a realistic evaluation of your capabilities & progress (which if you are legit should not worry you), and thus allow us to believe in you - something which has been extremely difficult so far.

Summary: Trying to "talk yourself (or your products) up" by omitting less positive details is something that only the best advertisers get away with, otherwise it just comes across as being sleazy. And again, sorry for being mistaken about you, although I still have reservations about you until I hear more details & explanations.

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Troels 
Re: [Poll] Would you purchase an Amy Developer MB for $300-350 US /227 Euro?
Posted on 9-Feb-2009 10:22:03
#220 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2005
From: Unknown

@yoodoo2
Quote:
My suggestion would be to approach and work with ACube on either a very low end board (sub £200) or a high end board for the 10 members of the community who could justify it to their wives.


Exactly my thoughts.

A really low price entrance model would be very welcome but it should be co-ordinated with Acube so they don't get stuck with 100+ SAM boards.

It would be crazy to compete with Acube for a low-end product in the Amiga market.
A high-end board will probably be crazy in price but I'm sure more than 10 people would buy Problem is that I don't see any other markets for a high-end PPC desktop board.

Right now I'd rather see a mid-range laptop exist, it could also appeal to people outside this community IF OS4 had Firefox and OpenOffice or just Abiword. I know a LOT of people who wouldn't need much more than that as their main system.

Luckily I don't have to justify my computer purchases towards my girlfriend but then again I don't spend that much either (last thing I bought was a PS3 and before that a laptop and the A1 when that came out).

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