@ChrisH

I just opened such a thread since I'm interested. Feel free to comment.

@ChrisH

lol, as I see it? Why is there anybody who believes it fast enough? Perhaps, we, the amigans have forgotten what is like to use a fast and responsive system. At 1680x1050x32bit after hard boot open two (any) drawers, load Abiword from AmiCygnix, listen live streaming from tune-net, and try to resize OWB. Result? Only 4 to 5 Mb of M9 free and the the cpu load hitting constantly 100%, system stalls for a while. For me that's unaceptable in 2009 and in a system that wants to be called AmigaNG. And I am not coplaining here for the missing components, the screwed dvi>vga signal, the price of the board or anything else. Can I use switcher3d? No, I am out of ram (!). Can I play adequate Q3? Yes but only in 640x480, whilst on a 1Gh Thunderbird, with 512Ram and AGP 4x GF3Ti200 (computer system of 2001/2 max) you can play it on resolution up to 1280x1024 with all the effects enabled.

Now, Troika says that it can built a dev board for half the price of SAM and double the perfomance and some people here "insult" them. And what we get form Hyperion also? A message that the amiga market was damaged by small companies like Troika. So I want to ask Hyperion, do they like OS4.1 running on a Sam440ep? Do they believe that it meets the standards they put for the perfomance of OS4.1? Honestly, do they believe that an outsider of the amiga community will buy it if he gets a chance to see it on a computer show? Will the unaware outsider laugh or cry when he will do a test drive of OS4.1 on Sam440ep?

Let's give Troika or any other company small or big a chance to deliver something. We don't have to pay anything until we see it and If they deliver then we can celebrate if not, bad luck. That's all.

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@Cool_amigaN

Seems to me your only problem with the SAM is its lack of video memory to run composting, turn it off and your issues will go away, people had the same problem when OSX 10.3 came out with Quartz extreme, some of the then current macs didn't support it at all and it was disabled by default. you have the ability to enable it but the hardware isn't quite good enough to make good use of it so disable it, its only eye candy anyway, its not a sam problem, more a new feature in software that the hardware wasn't designed for. I'm sure for the intended market outside of the tiny amiga faithful, composoting is not an important feature and this is probably where Acube plan to make their living. SAM is a product sold at a premium price made available to us only to run an os and give us something to use, its all there is and all there is likely to be for quite some time, it may not be ideal but it serves its purpose as a tool to run OS4.1 and as far as i can tell is more than up to the job, only poor performance when compositing is enabled seems to be its only fault.

the problem with quake3 is less to do with the hardware and more to do with the inefficient implementation of opengl that it has to make do with, possibly unoptimised code in the game its self and the maybe the driver. the hardware including the M9 is perfectly able to run the Q3 engine and probably does a fine job under linux. I'm no expert but i keep up to date as much as i can with goings on and i have read about the issues with minigl under OS4.x and how it is still pretty much just a wrapper to Warp3D, this is a huge bottleneck to anything that uses minigl and should improve greatly once a full mesa implementation is completed.

nothing i have said should be taken as fact, just my opinion on what you stated. I don't own a sam or any OS4.x capable hardware, not because its not good enough but because i cannot afford it right now. i am aware of the limitations of the hardware and the software but still want to be able to use OS4.x within the boundaries of those limitations as it is IMHO still the best OS available if not in terms of its features but in the experience as a whole.

Last edited by TheMaskedMuchacho on 14-Feb-2009 at 06:57 PM.

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@hyperionmp

Im wondering why you blame these companies and forget yours?
Your company delivered OS4 years!! later than it has been announced. This forced lots of users to drop their Amiga and using Macs or PC instead.

@Interesting

Do, or do not. There is no try.

_________________

@Totally_Blind_Mule: The difference is, that Hyperion has delivered a working product in the end. AmgiaOS4 is a real and working product, no vapourware.

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AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @Interesting Do, or do not. There is no try.

_________________
¤¤ Official Hyperion Zealot ¤¤

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

@Hyperionmp


Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @Interesting Do, or do not. There is no try.

When your site will be up with fresh news?
Will you do that not? Will you try that?
Is that profesional what you think?

Forum chat and answers are good for public relations when you set done basic things like site is.

_________________
F1 Srbija

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

This includes companies like I-Win, Escena, Titan, Metabox, Phase 5 (AmiRage anybody?), ACK etc. etc.

And what category do companies like AHT fit into then, since the reasoning given here on AW by both Senex and HJF indicated without a doubt that Bill McEwen squashed that deal.

How will you bring people you "might" consider more serious to the table with THAT looming in the background?

#6

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@Kronos

Titan did an announcement for an PPC card.

Like every serious company did som ~10 years ago

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @minator The Amiga market was damaged far more by underfunded small companies without professional management and insufficient resources and expertise announcing all sorts of hardware which they never delivered and could never have delivered for those exact reasons. This includes companies like I-Win, Escena, Titan, Metabox, Phase 5 (AmiRage anybody?), ACK etc. etc. Hyperion objects to this type of "announcement" policy especially if it deters people from buying actual hardware from companies that have succeeded in developing and producing suitable hardware.

I guess Met@box and Phase5 (former AS&S) delivered more products than Hyperion.
How many s title were announced and then nothing came? How many years OS4 was late?
Remember if your inside the greenhouse, avoid throwing stones.
In the end Met@ox and p5 f*cked it up (both companies went belly up), but Hyperion f*cked up a lot of things, too(delays, missing features, several not delivered games, what was the name of the über3D-construction sw?) and eventually delivered a some kind of obsolete OS. There already was a highly compatible ppc OS, but Hyperion continued to split the market and devide the small amiga community into two even smaller subfractions.
My opinion still is that OS4 and the FUD spread by B.h of Hyperion was one of the worst things (beside the apple killed off the ppc on the desktop) that ever happend to the Amiga after the fall of Commodore.

Edit: Before someone (wrongly) concludes I would be an OS 4 hater, because I said so harsh words, let me clarify, that now that OS4 is here I am not against it. But it is always good to look to the rear-view mirror from tieto time and consult history to balance your current actions. And during this ~ year 2001 time a lot of chances for the Amiga market were missed and destroyed. Note also that I don't sanctify the MorphOS team. They had their good share on mistakes and delays, too. But they didn't split the market. They were there when the "classic" OS was officially abandonned and continued that path.

Last edited by Zylesea on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:11 AM.

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My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Hans


The ppc strategy by freescale is processors suited for networking (powerQUICC) and controlling. Unfortunately these kind of processors are not the best choice for a multiedia oriented OS like MorphOS or AOS4. The traditional e500 may be okay, teh core is very similar to that used y IB for the 750* series. But the new QorIQ are not well suited for "our" OS. No vector unit, the fpu is running at half clock and several instructions get emulated. Nevertheless the ast QorIQ developments were encouraging and turning to the right drection (getting full e500 compatibility).
One of the strengthes of QorIQ is multicore and up to ow, neither MorphOS nor S4 support this feature.

@ stedy

while currently development of new e600 based cpus is on hold, there is still the 8610 and 864*(D) familiy which is active and has a much better performance for an OS like MorphOS or AOS4. If you are serious, the take would be on the 8610. It is cheap and powerful. But it requires serious design abilities. Maybe this is a prob if you don't have the expertise, but hey there is a nice b8610 board alrady available from which you may derive a "designed for OS4"-board from. Sorry, but unless you actually have shown something I cannot take you serious, nothing personal, but the track record is just not convincing.

_________________
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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Hyperionmp

As there is a greater demand for OS4.x capable hardware than can currently be met then maybe it is time for Hyperion to start up a hardware division.......

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Cool_amigaN

You needed a 1Ghz+ CPU and an Nvidia video card with full 3D drivers and native software applications.

But you intentionally got something else instead, and then tell OTHER people that it's not what YOU needed. The only person you need to explain that to is yourself.

Nobody's preventing Trokia from doing anything, they have all the "chances" they want.
If they had something we could buy, great. But the reality is they've been promoting their products for years and they have nothing. They are the only ones who can change that.

_________________
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http://www.youtube.com/hostcove
Sam460 : X1000 : X5000

@Spectre660

Maybe you should start up a hardware division.
Hyperion is a software company.

Like you, I'm also waiting for SAM hardware. I was going to get 2x SAM440ep, but since they have been out of stock, I'll probably just get the FLEX model instead.
I've got an AmigaOne right now, so it's somewhat easier for me to be patient for SAMs :)

Last edited by logicalheart on 15-Feb-2009 at 01:01 AM.
Last edited by logicalheart on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:55 AM.
Last edited by logicalheart on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:54 AM.

_________________
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Sam460 : X1000 : X5000

@logicalheart

Quote:

@Spectre660 Maybe you should start up a hardware division. Hyperion is a software company.

If I had invested as much as Hyperion in developing something like OS4.x and was faced again with a possible lack of sales because of the hardware situation I would think about it. even by using the contractor model that Hyperion use.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Hyperionmp

t was successfully demonstrated running on a IBM 405 PDA.

whot are the changes that there will be an os 4.x version out for that pda ?
i dont know more then whots public. the pegII is suportet law sute or not.

damm i wish an pda version..

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote: @ChrisH lol, as I see it? Why is there anybody who believes it fast enough? Perhaps, we, the amigans have forgotten what is like to use a fast and responsive system. At 1680x1050x32bit after hard boot open two (any) drawers, load Abiword from AmiCygnix, listen live streaming from tune-net, and try to resize OWB. Result? Only 4 to 5 Mb of M9 free and the the cpu load hitting constantly 100%, system stalls for a while. For me that's unaceptable in 2009 and in a system that wants to be called AmigaNG. And I am not coplaining here for the missing components, the screwed dvi>vga signal, the price of the board or anything else. Can I use switcher3d? No, I am out of ram (!). Can I play adequate Q3? Yes but only in 640x480, whilst on a 1Gh Thunderbird, with 512Ram and AGP 4x GF3Ti200 (computer system of 2001/2 max) you can play it on resolution up to 1280x1024 with all the effects enabled. Now, Troika says that it can built a dev board for half the price of SAM and double the perfomance and some people here "insult" them. And what we get form Hyperion also? A message that the amiga market was damaged by small companies like Troika. So I want to ask Hyperion, do they like OS4.1 running on a Sam440ep? Do they believe that it meets the standards they put for the perfomance of OS4.1? Honestly, do they believe that an outsider of the amiga community will buy it if he gets a chance to see it on a computer show? Will the unaware outsider laugh or cry when he will do a test drive of OS4.1 on Sam440ep? Let's give Troika or any other company small or big a chance to deliver something. We don't have to pay anything until we see it and If they deliver then we can celebrate if not, bad luck. That's all.

AMD K7 “Thunderbird” includes “Enhanced 3DNow” instruction set, out-of-order, triple-issue floating point unit, triple-issue ALUs, 3 instruction issue per cycle rate rate, L2 cache @clockspeed and 'etc'.

The comparable processor for PPC line is the CPU in Nintendo Wii i.e. "Broadway" PowerPC i.e. includes 64bit SIMD.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Cool_amigaN Quote:

lol, as I see it? Why is there anybody who believes it fast enough?

Of COURSE "as you see it", because it depends on what you want to do with a Sam440. Want to render Babylon 5 or Star Trek? Better get an 8-core PC running at 3GHz. Want to read email? A "slow" classic Amiga will suffice, and a Sam440 will be overpowered.

Anyway, I will not go Off Topic anymore with you on this thread. If you want to discuss things further, then please go to this thread:
Performance of the SAM440ep

BTW, you performance problems are nothing to do with Sam440.

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Feb-2009 at 10:19 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Hyperionmp

big's companies for the future amiga

Type:


commodore