Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5657 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 51 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 terminills

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 terminills:  2 mins ago
 noXLar:  11 mins ago
 ggw:  12 mins ago
 Pierre55:  25 mins ago
 remotenemesis:  41 mins ago
 ncafferkey:  1 hr 6 mins ago
 Develin:  1 hr 11 mins ago
 BCP:  1 hr 26 mins ago
 wajdy:  1 hr 42 mins ago
 Trekiej:  2 hrs 42 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 Next Page )
PosterThread
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:04:03
#441 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
don't see how x86 H/W has to stop the development of AOS. It ONLY provides the platform, not the Opperating Enviroment. The community here is willing to help fund development of their favourite Computer experience. Maybe AOS can look at using the H/W better than the others. Be more stable, efficient. I don't know how many times I have seen windows go down but I sure am glad it's not used in hospitals as life support. I'm sure many piolts feel the same way flying.


Is Rogue and his brother supposed to borrow a bunch of Santa's elves to help port the OS, port all the apps, write all the drivers to support a *VARIETY* of x86 hardware (instead of just one mainboard, with one or two families of graphics cards)?

You people imagine that porting to x86 means you'll be able to run it on anything x86 based. Thats not the case. Just like it was the case for years and years that AOS ran on AmigaOne but not Peg2 or Macs, even if you get x86 somehow you'll be forced to work with very specific limited choices of hardware. And you'd live have an OS with no apps for months if not years. Get real!


What are they using now! a handfull of AMIGA angels??? lol I am being real!
Just how many AMIGA users are left??? are they going to make a whole heap of new buddy buddies with more expenbsive, non standard H/W ?? Heck, at the moment we are putting their time and resources in to developing an OS that requires someone to step up and DESIGN and MANUFACTURE a whole complete H/W base from scratch!!

Why NOT put that effort in to something exisitng that they can continue to develop on!

Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 02:04 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eniacfoa 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:09:29
#442 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@eniacfoa

Quote:
I said PPC macs were ALMOST worthy of the trash bin. Implying they still have a small amount of time left.


Well, to me it looks like the most CPU-intensive task is handling 1080p HD video. Since HD is a standard which goes up to 1920x1080p and it's only just becoming widespread, I don't think that there will be needs to handle anything higher for the next, say 5-10 years at least. So as long as the hardware in question can handle those, its multimedia performance should be fine. On PC it's a different story, there the OS becomes slower and slower without gaining much useful functions, so you are forced to upgrade your hardware every couple of years if you want to be able to run the latest software.

Quote:
as we both agree, its a waste of time and money - to support a dead end platform.. we will continue to find ourselves at square 1 until we go x86. I know you are saying it would sell more copies on PPC mac than it currently is on SAM and I agree with you there. But most people still have to run out and buy a mac...as opposed to not needing to buy a new computer at all...Perhaps the mac PPC version could be part of the path to financing the x86 version.


I already said this and I'll repeat it: if we had OS4 available on x86 right now, who do you think would want to pay for it, and use it, when there are hardly any applications/games/etc. available, no drivers for up-to-date gfx cards or any other peripherals (printers, scanners, etc.). Anyone who is not a die-hard Amiga fanatic would not even remotely consider spending money on such a system. If you think that would give us significantly higher sales than a MacPPC version, you're wrong.

Quote:
You still havent answered the question (which ive asked a couple of time now) do you think that amiga inc has blown, squandered, stolen, pis sed away etc... enough resources for this x86 version to have happened?


I haven't answered because:
1. I don't know
2. The question is irrelevant - seriously, what difference does it make?


ill start with the last bit because its the most relevent...the point is to stop 'wasting' money on things that are going to get us nowhere. That includes lawyers and PPC band aids.

so now u say - who do you think would pay for it with no applications games etc after saying - SAM 'sold a lot'??

the same people who bought sam and the same people who are saying they want to spend money on amiga but SAM is way too much for way too little. That is most of the community.

People have to buy a computer with a mac solution, unless you are one of the few people with the right mac.

They do not with x86. again this lowers the entry barrier. we all have a pc (unless you are one of the 2-3% with a mac let alone the right mac). If you see this point as irrelevent, so be it, I do not. I think it would be the defining factor on why x86 version would out sell mac PPC version. so lets agree to disagree on that one.

lets assume we do the PPC mac version...its 3 years down the track...now what?...face the invevitable now, not tomorrow.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:18:29
#443 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@SHADES

Quote:
If a company won't listen to it's userbase, and the userbase isn't going to invest, where does that leave the company?


The company's userbase is the hobby market folks who know it takes a good amount of cash to be involved in this hobby and who know that even at these prices Hyperion probably works on a razor thin profit margin. THATS the *actual* userbase. Those are the actual paying customers. The folks that worked long hours to have the money to support the work they've done and own the OS. Thats the userbase.

Now I'm sure Hyperion would love to be the next Apple, reaching the masses, gaining significant market share, etc. But you have to know what you are working with, you have to know whats reasonably achievable and what is not. Hyperion going to x86 would likely financially run it into the ground before they could finish it. You guys want want want. But you don't really think through the day in and day out to get it done and how hard it would be to get that done. And then people scoff at the pricetags that would *really* be necessary to make even a small profit after the undertaking.

Quote:
Saying go to AROS isn't constructive


It is constructive. Its the only viable option for x86 because it already has a x86 version. It has people interested in going in that direction. It has developers offering their free time for it. Everyone just doesn't like how long doing it for free takes. And/or they have some bug up their ass that it does not have the "official" Amiga name.

And in a severe twist of irony, what project was one of the best funded recently to make it get done? Yep thats right, the core actual spending money folks, for a Efika (non x86) port.

Are any of you willing to loan Hyperion $10000 each interest free to help develop this x86 version you want/need?? Are you willing to coax at least 5 other Amigans each to match your funds? Or are you all just talk, crying about what you want, but not really willing to recognize the reality of what it takes to get there and willing to offer up a pound of your own flesh to make it happen?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 25-Mar-2009 at 02:27 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wegster 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:20:16
#444 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@COBRA

Quote:
If a 1066MHz G4 can play 1080p HD content smoothly, then I'm sure a 1.7GHz G4 Mac, or a 2+ Ghz Dual/Quad G5 Mac would do even better, so as far as image or video decoding/encoding/processing is concerned, with an efficient OS and properly written code it should be able to handle the needs of most people, and more, don't you agree?


Yep. And, it seems at least with the OS4 port tp Peg2, that perhaps there finally is no more 'hardware tax,' if Hyperion see potential for OS4 sales there. There may or may not still be legal implications, regarding the seemingly never ending court case, but it is sort of funny those that seem opposed to running on essentially 'the best PPC desktop and laptop hardware that would ever be 'available for Amiga' in quite some time.'

Would it be *nice* to have multiple core G5/970MP? You bet. But unless it's pre-existing hardware, how many would buy it for say, $3000, from an 'Amiga company?' Not enough to keep OS4 going - just the same few fanatics with too much expendable income. That would be great, for a few people - but wouldn't be drawing any new users, nor represent any more a significant number of OS4 sales than say the SAMs..maybe even less.

Say instead, the last gen PPC Mac Mini, last gen iBook or PowerBook, followed by the last gen G5 towers - it wouldn't do much for 'Amiga dealers,' but it's not like OS4 in a box is sitting on anyone's retail shelves either, and it would make sales, and the systems qould be a huge leap over what we have today.

It isn't an 'end system' for the theoretical when somehow OS4 is 'wildly popular and selling in retail stores,' but really, does *anyone* think there's much chance of that without significant changes, time, and $ spent, if ever?

There will always be those that want 'the fastest system out there,' and sure, an intel C2D or I7 would out-perform most of those PPC Macs, but not by an embarassing amount, and they'd put the hardware in a class of 'perfectly able to do most things, HD included.'

The issues? Well, of course, some have been quite vocal about 'no documentation, no port.' Yet, it's been done, and at least started, for Macs, by AV, so it's certainly possible. The other? Don't know how, but it certainly could still be a factor - the court case.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eniacfoa 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:21:31
#445 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@eniacfoa

Quote:
we need to see whats up with the court case 1st dont we?
Hyperion was supposed to give the OS back and amiga was supposed to continue development in-house from there is what ive heard... not that they could 'develop' a cheese sandwich...


No we don't. Amiga claims that OS 5 has been in development for years and was already at a level of being "much better than OS X from Apple" over a year ago. The announcement even made it to mainstream tech newsites. I think its a load of crap. But still, they shouldn't be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. They claim they are at that point and they are the ones with millions from cash infusions from the likes of Prokom that are documented as being so. You want x86, break down their door and demand it. Harassing Hyperion is going after the wrong folks.


hey man, i never meant to come across as harrasing hyperion...

just trying to have a friendly debate about the future of amiga OS. that is what forums and democracy are for.

you also jumped into the discussion halfway...

Last edited by eniacfoa on 25-Mar-2009 at 02:22 PM.

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wegster 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:24:31
#446 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@eniacfoa

Quote:
financially my argument here is that Ainc have blown, squandered, stolen and pis*sed away etc...enough resources for this modern x86 version to have already happened.


Irrelevant when AInc have only chosen to spend ~ $25k USD on OS4 plus less than that for an Artic port, no?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:25:09
#447 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@fairlanefastback

What are they using now! a handfull of AMIGA angels??? lol I am being real!
Just how many AMIGA users are left??? are they going to make a whole heap of new buddy buddies with more expenbsive, non standard H/W ?? Heck, at the moment we are putting their time and resources in to developing an OS that requires someone to step up and DESIGN and MANUFACTURE a whole complete H/W base from scratch!!

Why NOT put that effort in to something exisitng that they can continue to develop on!


Maybe because a small profit here and there for a part time job beats no pay at all for a fulltime one where you'd need to starve (literally) for years?

YES in CONCEPT x86 is the way to go. Now shift gears to REALITY and what it would *really* take to get there. Its rather rude IMHO for us to tell Hyperion and its contractors that they need to starve for years to give us something. Amiga is NOT going to make any widespread comeback. Not unless Hyperion lucks out with some very large investor. Unless you are that guy, willing to part with millions, with a good chance of never getting it back, let alone any profit, then you are just wasting your breath.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:32:13
#448 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@eniacfoa

Quote:
just trying to have a friendly debate about the future of amiga OS. that is what forums and democracy are for.


Yes but forums have thread topics. And this thread topic is "My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???". This thread is directed at a company any reasonable person knows that this is an unreasonable request to make of them at this time given the circumstances as we know them.

There have been plenty of other x86 threads in the past not pointed directly at Hyperion. This thread is not about a conceptual arguement of what would be best in the longterm. It is a thread about can Hyperion realistically fulfill this request.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wegster 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:32:31
#449 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@steril606

Quote:
and get a custom Laptop and Desktop unit with the Amiga name slapped on it out.


And for that 'custom' hardware, because of the market, do you *really* want to spend $3000 or so, for an $800 piece of hardware?

No 'custom.' Bring it in with relatively decent bang/$ or use someone *elses* existing hardware, period.

Pick one, you can't have all 3 in today's 'Amiga market':
- price: if you want low price, you're either with a very basic board, non modern, or commodity from someone other than an 'Amiga company'

- performance - If you want relatively high performance, from an 'Amiga company' with low quantity runs, you'll be paying anywhere from 2-6x what you'd pay for commodity similar hardware...which may or may not exist new (besides the closeout YDL), if we're on PPC, so it then becomes used, or again, quite expensive.

- custom - just guarantees higher relative pricing. How much? Try to work out how much it would cost to build *only* 200 laptops or so, then compare to a Dell, HP, netbook, etc. Let me know when done choking.

One interesting idea *could* be - build a PPC mobo in laptop format (note, there isn't an official laptop spec mobo), that fits a specific high volume laptop previously made. You'd have to buy and gut the original laptop, but then you have an 'OS4 laptop.' Even better of course, if the laptop casing, keyboard and LCD are still available for purchase, at some reasonable cost (but seems unlikely).





_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wegster 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:35:57
#450 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@SHADES

Quote:
I don't see how x86 H/W has to stop the development of AOS. It ONLY provides the platform, not the Opperating Enviroment. The community here is willing to help fund development of their favourite Computer experience. Maybe AOS can look at using the H/W better than the others. Be more stable, efficient. I don't know how many times I have seen windows go down but I sure am glad it's not used in hospitals as life support.


Because a port to x86 would take a majority of the dev team working on it, and there aren't all that many to start with? Doesn't get any simpler than that.

RE: hospitals, umm, yes, b/c AOS is more stable? Not really. I guess it gives new meaning to 'Grim Reaper,' however. Not to mention, you don't want to know what software for the medical field is like, at least in any critical category - a 'bug' that causes real issues, and your company is no longer IN the 'medical software field.'

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:38:19
#451 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
If a company won't listen to it's userbase, and the userbase isn't going to invest, where does that leave the company?


The company's userbase is the hobby market folks who know it takes a good amount of cash to be involved in this hobby and who know that even at these prices Hyperion probably works on a razor thin profit margin. THATS the *actual* userbase. Those are the actual paying customers. The folks that worked long hours to have the money to support the work they've done and own the OS. Thats the userbase.

Now I'm sure Hyperion would love to be the next Apple, reaching the masses, gaining significant market share, etc. But you have to know what you are working with, you have to know whats reasonably achievable and what is not. Hyperion going to x86 would likely financially run it into the ground before they could finish it. You guys want want want. But you don't really think through the day in and day out to get it done and how hard it would be to get that done. And then people scoff at the pricetags that would *really* be necessary to make even a small profit after the undertaking.

Quote:
Saying go to AROS isn't constructive


It is constructive. Its the only viable option for x86 because it already has a x86 version. It has people interested in going in that direction. It has developers offering their free time for it. Everyone just doesn't like how long doing it for free takes. And/or they have some bug up their ass that it does not have the "official" Amiga name.

And in a severe twist of irony, what project was one of the best funded recently to make it get done? Yep thats right, the core actual spending money folks, for a Efika (non x86) port.

Are any of you willing to loan Hyperion $10000 each interest free to help develop this x86 version you want/need?? Are you willing to coax at least 5 other Amigans each to match your funds? Or are you all just talk, crying about what you want, but not really willing to recognize the reality of what it takes to get there and willing to offer up a pound of your own flesh to make it happen?


That's what we are taling about. ;) Money.

How many more loans are we going to get to get Hyperion to keep UPDATING the OS when no one is buying it or the H/W to run it on?

Just how many more users are going to flock to AMIGa to buy Hyperions product when the H/W is non standard and needs to be designed from the ground up? (IF PRODUCED)

How Many more LOANS are we going to help source to try and get someone to MANUFACTURE from scratch a H/W Base that has to compete in an already designed and developed H/W base industry?

You must think Hyperion has an endless supply of money to keep coding for a user base that is getting smaller!

It's MADNESS. There is only so much money and YOUR asking them to find more by desiging something "different" in a world where something already exists and is quite accessable.

Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 02:39 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:42:36
#452 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
I don't see how x86 H/W has to stop the development of AOS. It ONLY provides the platform, not the Opperating Enviroment. The community here is willing to help fund development of their favourite Computer experience. Maybe AOS can look at using the H/W better than the others. Be more stable, efficient. I don't know how many times I have seen windows go down but I sure am glad it's not used in hospitals as life support.


Because a port to x86 would take a majority of the dev team working on it, and there aren't all that many to start with? Doesn't get any simpler than that.

RE: hospitals, umm, yes, b/c AOS is more stable? Not really. I guess it gives new meaning to 'Grim Reaper,' however. Not to mention, you don't want to know what software for the medical field is like, at least in any critical category - a 'bug' that causes real issues, and your company is no longer IN the 'medical software field.'


Yes it would! I would want the whole DEV team working on the OS, not half here, half getting coffee.
Why put all that effort in to a H/W base that is not going to be in the reach of users and only dwindle numbers. Code is code. It has to be written regardless of the Platform.
It's a big step and I'm sure people would be prepared to help fund it as there is a future for the H/W base. We won't be standing around in 5 years saying, where did x86 go? we need ne H/W !

I agree with your Medical assement of software.
That's why I was suggesting, AMIGA OS could look at developing it's code to be better than Windows or better than Linux. Doesn't have to of course, and yes i agree there are bugs in AOS ;) Maybe it won't evre be used in Medical, maybe it will be just known to be better on x86 than anytrhing else.

Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 02:58 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:44:13
#453 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@eniacfoa

Quote:
just trying to have a friendly debate about the future of amiga OS. that is what forums and democracy are for.


Yes but forums have thread topics. And this thread topic is "My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???". This thread is directed at a company any reasonable person knows that this is an unreasonable request to make of them at this time given the circumstances as we know them.

There have been plenty of other x86 threads in the past not pointed directly at Hyperion. This thread is not about a conceptual arguement of what would be best in the longterm. It is a thread about can Hyperion realistically fulfill this request.


Only if you take it as such. I found the thread much morre open than stop the x86 crap or whatever it was. Next it will be you can't say Ho ho ho at christmas ;)

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:47:34
#454 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@fairlanefastback

What are they using now! a handfull of AMIGA angels??? lol I am being real!
Just how many AMIGA users are left??? are they going to make a whole heap of new buddy buddies with more expenbsive, non standard H/W ?? Heck, at the moment we are putting their time and resources in to developing an OS that requires someone to step up and DESIGN and MANUFACTURE a whole complete H/W base from scratch!!

Why NOT put that effort in to something exisitng that they can continue to develop on!


Maybe because a small profit here and there for a part time job beats no pay at all for a fulltime one where you'd need to starve (literally) for years?

YES in CONCEPT x86 is the way to go. Now shift gears to REALITY and what it would *really* take to get there. Its rather rude IMHO for us to tell Hyperion and its contractors that they need to starve for years to give us something. Amiga is NOT going to make any widespread comeback. Not unless Hyperion lucks out with some very large investor. Unless you are that guy, willing to part with millions, with a good chance of never getting it back, let alone any profit, then you are just wasting your breath.


It's not rude at all. Just the same way as it wasn't RUDE to ask ATi to consider developing their driver for LINUX and then MAC. You need to take a step back and get some air!

You could be right! maybe it won't make a comeback. IT CERTAINLY won't GROW if it is also limited to TOTAL REDESIGN of H/W at inflated prices that is underpowered hacked to run x86 plugin H/W anyway.

Just where is the FUTURE with that sort of thinking!

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eniacfoa 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:48:15
#455 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
If a company won't listen to it's userbase, and the userbase isn't going to invest, where does that leave the company?


The company's userbase is the hobby market folks who know it takes a good amount of cash to be involved in this hobby and who know that even at these prices Hyperion probably works on a razor thin profit margin. THATS the *actual* userbase. Those are the actual paying customers. The folks that worked long hours to have the money to support the work they've done and own the OS. Thats the userbase.

Now I'm sure Hyperion would love to be the next Apple, reaching the masses, gaining significant market share, etc. But you have to know what you are working with, you have to know whats reasonably achievable and what is not. Hyperion going to x86 would likely financially run it into the ground before they could finish it. You guys want want want. But you don't really think through the day in and day out to get it done and how hard it would be to get that done. And then people scoff at the pricetags that would *really* be necessary to make even a small profit after the undertaking.

Quote:
Saying go to AROS isn't constructive


It is constructive. Its the only viable option for x86 because it already has a x86 version. It has people interested in going in that direction. It has developers offering their free time for it. Everyone just doesn't like how long doing it for free takes. And/or they have some bug up their ass that it does not have the "official" Amiga name.

And in a severe twist of irony, what project was one of the best funded recently to make it get done? Yep thats right, the core actual spending money folks, for a Efika (non x86) port.

Are any of you willing to loan Hyperion $10000 each interest free to help develop this x86 version you want/need?? Are you willing to coax at least 5 other Amigans each to match your funds? Are are you all just talk, crying about what you want, but not really willing to recognize the reality of what it takes to get there and willing to offer up a pound of your own flesh to make it happen?


this is why I say if there is an x86 version...the entry barrier will be so low (not having to buy an expensive computer on top of an OS) that you will find many more paying customers within the amiga community, not just the ones that have big $$$ to spend on a '2nd' computer. I think you would also find sales pickup in places outside of europe as well. for anyone outside of europe, sam becomes so expensive you'd simply have to be rich just to own one as your second computer...look honey! ive got so much money pouring out my butt, I can buy one of these expensive door stops!

but if I could spend $200 on an x86 version of AOS? no probs, Id buy it...its not going to break the budget for a hobby OS..

you say loan hyperion 10k? do you mean 100k?
1000 buyers of a $200 x86 AOS = 200K. 2000 is 400K.

I think 1-2 thousand buyers is a reasonable target to aim for with an x86 version.. I think you may find it would end up exceeding that. see my earlier posts for debate as to why AROS is not a template for what will happen if AOS goes x86.

I have asked this question before and didnt really get a straight answer...

what ARE the approx costs of building an x86 version with support for 2 cores?

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
steril606 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:49:35
#456 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Oct-2008
Posts: 462
From: Munich/Bavaria/Germany

@wegster

you greatly overemphasize "Custom" here. You can get some prebuilt netbooks/Laptops/desktop units, put your name on it, get Amiga OS running on that specific hardware.

I meant "custom" in the sense of "one hardware" and "recognizable", or contrary to "Amiga OS running on all kinds of x86 hardware"... And especially not in the "Jay Miner sits down and designs Denise, Paula, Agnus" sense.


And still, 800 for an Amiga branded 3 ghz laptop or 1.6 ghz Newbook running Amiga OS, would be better than 800 for a 667 mhz PPC "Sam" Board running Amiga OS for possible new users.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 14:57:53
#457 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1576
From: Unknown

Quote:

Or do you stop that and undertake x86 development. Where you have to work on it full time to make any reasonable progress, where your wife will need to work 3 jobs to support the family in the meantime and where when you are done you'll have to sell a ton of copies at $250 each to just break even. And thats just to have it work on one motherboard and antiquated video cards. In the meantime getting hatemail for years from the PPC folks you abandoned that you had recently convinced to buy SAMs to run your OS, which you've had to stop any work on since x86 is such an undertaking.

I want to stop and undertake next gen OS development. There is no way to live with the Amiga today anyway. Do you really think any Amiga developer is living with what he earns developing his OS ?
Well, developing in spare time is what brought MorphOS where it is. It is was brought Linux where it is. And if we exclude the Frieden brothers, it's also what brought OS4 where it is. And I'm pretty sure all these developers have friends, families, etc...
If you can't live of your Amiga development, well, just find a true job, and develop on your spare time. I'd be more than happy to contribute in my spare time... If I knew there were plans for a new, modern, powerful, legacy-free, processor-independant OS... And I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be ready to do so as well. Imagining anyone can finance the development of an AmigaOS right now (be it PPC, x86 or anything) is just craziness. so stop talking about money involved in porting anything...

Last edited by Leo on 25-Mar-2009 at 03:00 PM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 15:01:54
#458 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@Leo

I'd buy a browser for my $500 PC.
I just spen $60 on a virus killer too.
Nero cost a bit.
My TV card was $140, but it's a good one ;)

fact for me is
I'd certainly prefer it to be AOS than crappy Windows.

ALTHOUGH, you're right, the userbase is smaller. Much smaller. That will take time to get going again, however $500 AUS is much less for me to spend that $2000AUS to buy slow H/W H/W on my Hobby OS. ;)

If there's money to be made, a dollour fomr the masses is worth more than $500 from 1 person.

Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 03:04 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
wegster 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 15:03:27
#459 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@steril606

Quote:

steril606 wrote:
@wegster

you greatly overemphasize "Custom" here. You can get some prebuilt netbooks/Laptops/desktop units, put your name on it, get Amiga OS running on that specific hardware.

I meant "custom" in the sense of "one hardware" and "recognizable", or contrary to "Amiga OS running on all kinds of x86 hardware"... And especially not in the "Jay Miner sits down and designs Denise, Paula, Agnus" sense.


And still, 800 for an Amiga branded 3 ghz laptop or 1.6 ghz Newbook running Amiga OS, would be better than 800 for a 667 mhz PPC "Sam" Board running Amiga OS for possible new users.


Maybe I overemphasize it in your case/understanding, but not everyones. Many simply have way unrealistic expectations regarding the relationships between hw, quantity, and pricing.

And yes, that's exactly what I mean when I say commodity hardware, that's the way to do it - a tiny company like ACube isn't going to produce the above 'from scratch.' They don't have the money to do it, nor does the market support it ('custom hardware'). But finding an existing system, already produced in numbers, and simply 'call it Amiga', and it becomes more sane, assuming the company isn't too greedy.

The LimePC laptop/netbook could have been perfect for that (PPC), if it ever made it into retail channels (don't think it did, a very small handful were made, AFAIK). And otherwise, yes, there's an issue - no such PPC devices exist, so at least *today*, we need a company like ACube, or whomever, to at least give us *something* to run on, with all of the issues we still have with it (price/performance mainly).

Just no easy road, when it all costs money and time, and both are likely running out...in a market that for the desktop, also isn't one banks would be investing in.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 25-Mar-2009 15:07:11
#460 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 610
From: Melbourne

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote:
@steril606

Quote:

steril606 wrote:
@wegster

you greatly overemphasize "Custom" here. You can get some prebuilt netbooks/Laptops/desktop units, put your name on it, get Amiga OS running on that specific hardware.

I meant "custom" in the sense of "one hardware" and "recognizable", or contrary to "Amiga OS running on all kinds of x86 hardware"... And especially not in the "Jay Miner sits down and designs Denise, Paula, Agnus" sense.


And still, 800 for an Amiga branded 3 ghz laptop or 1.6 ghz Newbook running Amiga OS, would be better than 800 for a 667 mhz PPC "Sam" Board running Amiga OS for possible new users.


Maybe I overemphasize it in your case/understanding, but not everyones. Many simply have way unrealistic expectations regarding the relationships between hw, quantity, and pricing.

And yes, that's exactly what I mean when I say commodity hardware, that's the way to do it - a tiny company like ACube isn't going to produce the above 'from scratch.' They don't have the money to do it, nor does the market support it ('custom hardware'). But finding an existing system, already produced in numbers, and simply 'call it Amiga', and it becomes more sane, assuming the company isn't too greedy.

The LimePC laptop/netbook could have been perfect for that (PPC), if it ever made it into retail channels (don't think it did, a very small handful were made, AFAIK). And otherwise, yes, there's an issue - no such PPC devices exist, so at least *today*, we need a company like ACube, or whomever, to at least give us *something* to run on, with all of the issues we still have with it (price/performance mainly).

Just no easy road, when it all costs money and time, and both are likely running out...in a market that for the desktop, also isn't one banks would be investing in.


The thing is that there is "Something" even if it is just ASUS motherboards or "A" chipset on x86, the design is already done. There is no need to put $$$$ in from a small company to re-design from scratch and then produce it, market it and re-coup costs from and no reason to get the coders to try and get the OS to work flawlessly on a market untested base.

Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 03:13 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 25-Mar-2009 at 03:08 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle