@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: AN d compared to Apple, if Steve Jobs intoduces iMix as new elektric mixer there would be hughe hype about it, free advertising on hundreds of WWW pages. Thousands of Mac fans would bought a overprced mixer bacause it is a Apple mixer. Ámiga could not compete with Apple anyway.

That is the difference about apple fans and amiga fans whereas apple fans glorify every apple product even if it have faults, Amiga fans discretit even the strongs point of Amiga and attack any any intention to start
We have lost that fanboyism that once made us great, and now is making great to Apple

I never seen a Microsoft saying the weakness of their products even if it are big and evidents

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

First regarding iPhone so we can close that subject here...

I don't know, but I don't think stuff like "Copy & Paste", "Multitasking" etc really is a standardised part of a cellphone.

No the iPhone isn't a smartphone- Apple never advertised it as anything but a phone; it's in the segment of a sony ericsson k800i than a xperia x1.

And some things are hard to add afterwards- like memory protection, it's a pretty crucial in the cellphone segment you're currently comparing.
But once again I don't see the point in this discussion. (But this argument seems void to me as my impression is that's pretty much what happen to all systems; iPhoneOS wasn't a beta when it was released- it was just feature limited.)

Is it to prove that AmigaOS can be extended to do anything? We already have one OS that been extended beyond oblivion- it's called MS-DOS; and I thought the general idea here was Windows was bloated- that would happen to any OS that's extended again and again.

Corperatives aren't looking for a hacked solution, they're looking for a clean (or atleast appears to be a cleanroom implementation)

@Arko

Quote:

Ámiga could not compete with Apple anyway.

If you mean the AmigaOS then fine but Amiga does not exist as a single entity anymore! Amiga represents 2 waring factions of Amiga Inc. and Hyperion, both would like to go their seperate way taking the IP with them. Hyperion have the programming skill and source code whereas Amiga Inc. have the name, rights and presumably the financial backing! There is NO WAY that THIS 'Amiga' will compete with Amstrad or Sir Clive Sinclair, never mind Apple or Nokia!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Fransexy

Apples success is 99% due to their extreme feeling for what is going to work at which time.

Sure there are alot of Apple fanboys, that are blindly fanatic. While I prefer Apple products most of the time- I don't consider myself a fanboy; Neither do the fanatics who believe I'm a microsoft fan; and microsoft fans believes I'm an apple fan and so on.

If you got objective thinking you realize that all systems has weaknesses; things that are plain right stupid etc. It's a matter of summarizing and see which system has the best fitting solution for your needs.

There been systems released that was way a head of it's time in history that never even got a chance outside a few thousand users at most. AmigaOS had it's glory; it's time to realize it has nothing to bring to the table except hours of joy as an hobby.

@Frek

Quote:

Frek wrote: @Fransexy First regarding iPhone so we can close that subject here... I don't know, but I don't think stuff like "Copy & Paste", "Multitasking" etc really is a standardised part of a cellphone. No the iPhone isn't a smartphone- Apple never advertised it as anything but a phone; it's in the segment of a sony ericsson k800i than a xperia x1.

ohh yeah!!!!! and that is why now is advertising cut and paste as if the Iphone was the only one that can do it

Quote:

And some things are hard to add afterwards- like memory protection, it's a pretty crucial in the cellphone segment you're currently comparing. But once again I don't see the point in this discussion. (But this argument seems void to me as my impression is that's pretty much what happen to all systems; iPhoneOS wasn't a beta when it was released- it was just feature limited.)

It´s not memory protecction already implemented but disabled for compatibility reasons? on a phone you not need compatibility with the desktop apps

Beta or featured limited, are only semantic discussion; and it was not AmigaOS in perpetual beta stage to avoid legal problems?

Quote:

Is it to prove that AmigaOS can be extended to do anything? We already have one OS that been extended beyond oblivion- it's called MS-DOS; and I thought the general idea here was Windows was bloated- that would happen to any OS that's extended again and again.

Are you comparing MS-DOS to AmigaOS?

Quote:

Corperatives aren't looking for a hacked solution, they're looking for a clean (or atleast appears to be a cleanroom implementation)

3.9 was a hacked solution, AmigaOS 4 not

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@TheMaskedMuchacho

I'm using an iBook G4 933Mhz with OSX 10.4 (version .12 I think)

It boots fine from the Installation DVD 1, so my plan if a hard disk failure occurs is to boot off the DVD and then copy the disk image saved on my USB hard disk onto the new internal hard disk via Disk Utility which is included on Installation DVD1. I guess this is my only option and that I might as well delete the clone copy which seems little use unless you can boot off it?!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Frek

Quote:

AmigaOS had it's glory; it's time to realize it has nothing to bring to the table except hours of joy as an hobby.

And with this mentality it never will be more than a hobby.Obviously there is a lot of Weakness and things that need to add but they never be solved alone.
It´s ironic that when you attack an Iphone user of a weakness they look at the future and says "but it will be implemented in IphoneOS X.x upgrade" when an Amiga user looks at the future it´s lashed by the weakness of the present (and the most sad, by their brothers Amigans )

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

when an Amiga user looks at the future it´s lashed by the weakness of the present (and the most sad, by their brothers Amigans )

There's no future for AmigaOS on the desktop never mind on the non-existant Mobile Phone port if the Hyperion/Amiga Inc. feud isn't sorted out! The Amiga brand name is of no use to KMOS if all the users loyal to the brand view KMOS as a joke. I suggest they sell (or ideally give as a gift to appease the loyal Amiga community) Hyperion the right to use the Amiga IP at their discretion. If anything Hyperion will add value to the IP and in turn give KMOS some level of legitimiscy with the wider world. At the moment Amiga Inc are a non-event who are the laughing stock of those in the know and a liability to investors not in the know!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Fransexy

First to make this clear, I don't have the emotional package with the Amiga as most of you do here, I played amiga a few times in the early 90s- a friend of mines dad and his pals run an amiga cracking business so this friend always had alot of games and stuff.
I tried some AMOS programming on the amiga around that time though, we wanted to start an demo group :p but it didn't really take off, I think the furthest we got was an odd sounding module in some tracking program, and image in deluxe paint and an intro mockup we made with red sectors demo maker :p

Eitherway this was around 1991-92, (I were around 11 years old)- that's the only history I have with amiga until I bought an pegasos (for a totally different reason 2003); the hardware and firmware turned out to be a piece of ####, however I got to try out morphos for the first time, and while I weren't overwhelmed by it- I was used to alot higher standards (read: feature set) having used macos (since 1993, OS X since 2001), linux (1999 - 2001 fulltime) and windows/msdos (since forever).

But I found the system somewhat interesting, as a developer I considered contribute with what I could do, I recognized the immediate need for some development aids- however after trying to gain access to documentation of certain system features required with the morphos team without success; and alot of other silly stuff, I almost cryied of laughter at some points because there was obviously more secrets than most NDA projects I've been wokring on commercially. I decided to ditch morphos in 2004.
While I didn't like the mentality the system itself was interesting- even though I had no immediate use of it- it was a new concept for me, that I wanted to explore...

so when I stumbled upon an Amiga 1200 on ebay in late 2004; I bought it and played all the games I remembered from the time above.
Played around a bit and packaged it up- it's been packaged for pretty much all the time since.

Time passed and the PEG pretty much stood idle as I really had no use for it, with the aftermath buying another PPC mac would been a much better purchase, but then again I'm curious by nature and want to try both new (to me) hw and software.

Eventually morphos 2 was released, I decided to give it a try again and see what happened during the years- The system felt a lot different; the attitude was a lot better this time when you asked for something, although I still to this day haven't gotten the info I asked for, and to be honest I don't care anylonger either.
I do however still today play around with MorphOS once a while, but I don't use it regulary.

But anyway this is how I learnt what I know about the Amiga and it's OS (and relatives), I think some things are neat- others seem pretty stupid. but as I said that's the general case for most systems.

So I hope you understand why I don't have this fanatic view of the Amiga platform.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Fransexy Quote: when an Amiga user looks at the future it´s lashed by the weakness of the present (and the most sad, by their brothers Amigans ) There's no future for AmigaOS on the desktop never mind on the non-existant Mobile Phone port if the Hyperion/Amiga Inc. feud isn't sorted out! The Amiga brand name is of no use to KMOS if all the users loyal to the brand view KMOS as a joke. I suggest they sell (or ideally give as a gift to appease the loyal Amiga community) Hyperion the right to use the Amiga IP at their discretion. If anything Hyperion will add value to the IP and in turn give KMOS some level of legitimiscy with the wider world. At the moment Amiga Inc are a non-event who are the laughing stock of those in the know and a liability to investors not in the know!

True but we are discussing technical questions. we are betting what is the ambitious project and the Phone path is not as impossible technically spoken as lot of people said.

But well, another more possible theory: What if it is a dragon like accelerator on a pci card for classics and Aone, sam and pegasos?

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

Quote:

we are betting what is the ambitious project and the Phone path is not as impossible technically spoken as lot of people said.

The abitious project could be getting access to the Amiga brand name for ACube hardware and future iterations of AmigaOS including the ever sort after "Amiga OS5" TM!

I really doubt AmigaOS on a phone is what's going on! On a NetBook is more likely! We've never had AmigaOS on a laptop yet never mind a phone! Port Amiga OS to Mac PPC's it is a no brainer and I wouldn't have to buy new hardware!! iBook PPCs forever!! I love Nokia and wouldn't buy an Amiga Inc branded anything!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

Off topic

I´m curious: There is a limit of messages for thread? which is the maximum?

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

Putting it on ARM would mean they could then put it on various things that use ARM, not just a phone.

@Frek

Quote:

So I hope you understand why I don't have this fanatic view of the Amiga platform.

It hasn't has to be necessarily a fanatic view. You have bought a Pegasos out of curiosity, but as I understand it you didn't find MorphOS to be better/nicer than other OS(es), so at the end you didn't have the need to use it instead of other systems. That's a matter of taste, other people here (including me) like AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS more that other systems, that's why they're more concerned about its future and development.

Varthall

_________________
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

ALL and some

They are gamers consoles not desktops so AmigaOS is not an a Game to be ported
PS3(sony)
Wii(nintendo)
xbox()


SAM - tooo late for you samy i wish you was around 10 years a go not today.

i have to say that nothing wrong with sam its the only good thing happen to amiga so far
but 10 years late...

AROS - Lots of Movements and getting better every day but still not AmigaOS4.0

MorphOs - i will buy one if i manage to find a Peg2 G4 1GHz.

ARM - slow it would be nice but not as main AmigaOS HW..

x86 - x86 will bring amiga long lost hardware feeling and power we lost back than..
- cheap
- faaaaaast
- leaders of the current market
- usb/wfi/sound cards/graphic cards/etc... got all what we have always dream about.
-no preORDERS on HW side or waiting....go out get one
-we needed or its needed.

_________________
http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

@Varthall

My point is, I don't think it's realistic to expect the Amiga to raise again, it lost it's chance.

To me it's like hoping the NES will raise again, I would love if time was back in the 90s again, computers and games where alot more fun those days.
But reclaiming a memory of pasted times is not healthy, it's not useful- in the end the only market there is are those who grew up with the amiga and possibly one or two oddballs that just buys it out of curiosity (like me)- that's my analysis why all amiga ressurection projects fails.

Instead consider it a hobby, that's where it belongs today. Comparisions to windows/macos x/linux. different processors etc are just pointless.
Just like it's pointless comparing Windows 3.11 to Windows 7; Trust me 3.11 is lightening fast on todays computers :)

I hope you understand my view, my intention is not to kill any hope, but to enlighten you that the time for hope was lost along time ago.
As I said in a previous post, there simply isn't a software base to support an amigaos derative to be a mainstream OS; and as long as there isn't there wont be any userbase either.

@Frek

Quote:

My point is, I don't think it's realistic to expect the Amiga to raise again, it lost it's chance.

Exactly, and I think the only legitimate way to look at the Amiga platform is from the nostalgia retrospective viewpoint. If people want to get ambitious, they'll need to scrap the entire Amiga legacy thing and create something completely new.

@xispo

Quote:

My point is, I don't think it's realistic to expect the Amiga to raise again, it lost it's chance.

Well, are we going to regress?

OS4? I've done a step backwards

Posting From "OS/2" Ecomstation. :P

_________________
retired

@xispo

exactly. And along such logic - couldn't we say, that Apple is the new Amiga? Look what they did - iPod, iPhone. They even very succesfully entered already crowded market of cell phones. They are defining new standards - others are copying them. I do remember - there was a computer, called an Amiga ... which once was innovative ... but that is a history now.

OTOH - if there is still some niche for AOS to follow (e.g. cell phoness, embedded), it should be pursued. There are still some simplistic values of OS which "felt right", which still after all those years, were not replaced by let's say - Linux. The thing is called - a complexity problem.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @clebin Overhyped tosh! The Nokia N95/96 range have consistantly out performed the iPhone on all 'Gadget Show' tests on Channel 5 (UK)! It's only Apple's branding, and the aesthetic/status symbol appeal which shift the units. It's value as a gadget is over-rated!!

Well, I love mine. I've owned several Nokias and I've had a play with the N95. I wouldn't swap in a million years. It's nothing to do with Apple branding and I'm not a fanboy. I switched from Mac to Linux a couple of years ago and have recently switched back simply because of the quality of the product.

When Android can boast an eco-system of software comparable to the iPhone, I may switch, but the sheer numbers of apps and innovative games coming out for the iPhone is incredible and generally these things cost 59p to £5.99 at most. One example - I bought excellent versions of Tiger Woods and Sim City for the iPhone for £2.99. A similar thing on Nintendo DS? I'm guessing £20 plus.

As a phone, it's quick, intuitive and reliable, which is all I want. The Google Maps works well, the iPod works well, I like iTunes (on the Mac anyway - Windows version isn't quite so good) I don't know what 'tests' the Gadget Show show ran - benchmarks? Camera tests? That's not half the picture. The fact is, that the iPhone is a good phone with a totally unrivalled software base - very much not "absolute tosh".

Chris