@clebin

Quote:

It will never be more than a hobby.

with that kind of attitude you are right.

Quote:

I don't know why some people can't still accept that, and why that's such a bad thing.

ask the inventor of the segway why he still believes in it despite poor sales figures.
if you believe in something you will want it to grow. if you don't well you have the vibe you are sending out.

Quote:

Just enjoy it. World domination is a childish aim.

well to aim nowhere is silly. if there is no expectation there is no gratification.
i would rather believe in something that fails than to give up before the fight.


now can we please get back on subject.

Last edited by jkirk on 23-Jul-2009 at 05:09 PM.

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@OldFart

Quote:

Another part of Hyperion's secret project maybe: upgrade (or replace) UBoot to (with) something more comprehensable?

Good idea! Something with no fuss auto CD booting. And bugs fixed.

Perhaps they are doing what they set out to do, attack the embedded space. Well, Hyperion are mainly software, so can we cut hardware form the list?

Perhaps they are getting it working on a green laptop. Almost an embedded device, netbooks are so small!

Unless they are stretching their ARMs.

@Cyborg

Yeah, mate, you're quite right, but it must the season as newspapers are about simmilar crap, simply by lack of anything exiting to report about. It has all got to do with these vegetables or fruits.

Simply endure it.

OldFart

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More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

@Frek

Quote:

What is an "airbook" ? If you mean Macbook Air- well it doesn't have an optical drive at all.

That is what I meant.

But you are right, they don't, so it must have been a normal PowerBook.

IIRC the owner seems to think it is a MacBook Air, and it stuck in my head.

Quote:

The only possible case a mac would display white text on a blackscreen is if you boot with -v flag or the kernel crashes early on.

How do you specify the -v flag if it wasn't booting? Verbose mode on the keyboard? Kernel crash? Nup, it didn't get that far. And it wasn't a "Mac" font. It was standard looking PC 8x8 text font.

Quote:

There is no support for it in EFI!

Well what comes before the EFI?

Because it can happen!

Try a google, it has happened to others. I have corroborating evidence!

http://thedesignspace.net/MT2archives/000530.html

Quote:

To get text output otherwise the BIOS emulator has to be loaded- and it will only do that if you insert a windows/linux dvd or something- or if some idiot tries to boot from a hackintosh dvd you probably see the chameleon loader which will seriously fail to boot on a real mac.

There's a BIOS emulator? Why would they do that? If there is Apple firmware why can't that do it? Firmware is meant to be a BIOS, or didn't Apple know that?

In any case, I saw no reason for it to go into some PC mode which really showed how x86 had influenced Apple. It should have gone straight to the Mac screen with the question mark.

@Hypex

Nothing comes before the EFI- EFI is the firmware,
what you see there is the BIOS emulator that is invoked if no efi bootloader is found.

---

And no BIOS is not a general term for "hardware initialzation code"; Firmware is the proper term.

BIOS is one type of system.

EFI is another.

Open Firmware is yet another.


---

And I forgot to add... Originally the Intel Macs didn't come with a BIOS emulator in EFI, there was simply no way of booting windows without installing bootcamp, however due to popular demand all Intel Macs today come with the bios emulator as standard allowing you to insert a windows cd or whatever and boot like a regular PC.

Last edited by Frek on 23-Jul-2009 at 05:51 PM.
Last edited by Frek on 23-Jul-2009 at 05:45 PM.

ok, now since this thread is out of control...does anybody actually know what the secret project is yet?

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-- --
aka Tony Rocks

@m0lebrain

Quote:

m0lebrain wrote: ok, now since this thread is out of control...does anybody actually know what the secret project is yet?

nope this is still guess and hope atm.

and since i haven't weighed in yet on bs guesses, here is mine.

this is a partnership with some company to produce the os (or parts of it) for some product we have not seen yet.

Last edited by jkirk on 23-Jul-2009 at 06:40 PM.

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

@m0lebrain

I know a little

Enough to think the thread is kinda funny, anyway

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Oh dear, now "they" are going have to take steps to prevent "them" from hounding you down till you tell what you know.

Perhaps it would be safer just to say upfront, no one will believe you and it'll save a lot of nastiness

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BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@broadblues

Let them come. I'll be ready

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Phones? Forget it.
Phones are incredibly sophisticated devices, much more so than anything on your desktop.
The chips in them are multi-core heterogeneous devices. Like the original Amiga in some respects but much, much more complex.
The amount of software you require is vast, baseband is so complex then even the mighty Intel didn't even try it, they licensed it from Nokia.

It took Symbian years to get everything ready, Apple, Google and even Microsoft also all took years to get their phone OSs into shape. Porting to PPC was buttons compared to what would be required to make OS4 into a phone OS.

You know all that stuff like memory protection and SMP people would like to see, that's just the basics, even with full memory protection you're not even close to the level of security Symbian has - and even it's not perfect. The Amiga GUI would be completely useless, Apple have shown the way here and everyone is playing catch up.

Oh and you've no power management - absolutely critical in any mobile device. The processor in your phone is switched off the vast majority of the time.

The amount of work and money required to to turn OS4 into a phone OS is astronomical, all so you can compete with rivals which cost $0?



Could OS4 be useful commercially?

Probably, I suppose it could find a use somewhere, most likely in a custom embedded systems of some form. However while you're on custom hardware even that's almost certainly never going to happen.

Last edited by minator on 24-Jul-2009 at 12:59 AM.

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Whyzzat?

@jkirk

You are utterly deluded and living in a fantasy world. I know I'm argumentative, but it really pains me when people take the greatest computer of the last 30 years and apply their own messed up, illogical, frankly laughable reasoning to it and claim that it is the "Amiga way"and that others are cynical and negative for disagreeing with you.

No. You need to grow up and realise this is 2009, not 1985. The past is gone. The Amiga is still a wonderful hobby to be cherished and enjoyed, but it is not a world beater and it never will be. Sorry to introduce reality into the discussion.

Chris

@clebin

"utterly deluded and living in a fantasy world" for saying that giving up is a sure way of failing?

I must say, that is very harsh. All the guy did was point out that if all you ever aspire to is obscurity, all you ever get is obscurity.

It's a fact of life that negative prophecies are often self-fulfilling. Because when people start spiralling down into the depths of gloom, they start to act rather weird.

Of course, people act weird all the time, but especially in bad times you will see a lot of extra effort to make things worse.

So I agree with jkirk. Set some ambitious goals for the long time strategy of Amiga, and let's work TOGETHER to reach those goals. A long as the work is fun, what harm can it do?

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@clebin

I agree with olegil. What's wrong with people having a wish, a dream, and working that at least 1% of that dream becomes reality? The worst it could happen is that they fail, in that case they can say "hey, at least we tried"! And not necessarily that dream would be for "world domination", but just to make Amiga a viable platform again.

Varthall

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AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

@clebin
Quote:

is not a world beater and it never will be. Sorry to introduce reality into the discussion

thats not reality. thats just desultory and doesnt help anything. nothing would ever be accomplished without dreams, aspiration and excitement.

/stone

@minator

"even with full memory protection"

I think you found the super secrect project of Hyperion

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Bite Me!

@Varthall

I think the point is, this dream of yours been around for more than a decade- so far there been no successful ressurections.
In the meantime the architecture and system aged so while it might have edges on other architectures and systems 10 years ago, it does not anylonger- the only point I repetively see is that it's "responsive" and "lightwight", guess why? it simply doesn't have the featureset other systems has- if it had it would be heavy as well.

Most systems implement a hell lot of abstraction, my understanding is that the amiga never really did because the custom chipset was somewhat uniform between the machines; there wasn't really any need to abstract anything.

Does that mean it's pointless to make new amiga hardware etc? Yes and No.
For hobby purpose it could be very exciting, but for commercial or everyday use I fail to see any point what so ever.

I agree fully with celbin on this subject.

@minator

> Phones? Forget it.

I agree, who wants those anti-social annoying things anyway. Their use ought to be banned in public. I really do not want to listen to other people's conversations when on trains or busses thank you very much.

Plus who on earth wants to stare a screens only a couple of inches across, when they can use a real computer with a decent sized monitor.

Ye, phones - forget them. Pure madness.

@m0lebrain

Quote:

m0lebrain wrote: ok, now since this thread is out of control...does anybody actually know what the secret project is yet?

Yes, me. The will replace the OS4 boot screen with a new more fancy and animated!

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@Frek

Quote:

Frek wrote: @Varthall I think the point is, this dream of yours been around for more than a decade- so far there been no successful ressurections.

Personally I think that the AmigaOne and OS4.x have been successful, that's the system I have always wanted to have and I'm happy with it.

Quote:

In the meantime the architecture and system aged so while it might have edges on other architectures and systems 10 years ago, it does not anylonger- the only point I repetively see is that it's "responsive" and "lightwight", guess why? it simply doesn't have the featureset other systems has- if it had it would be heavy as well.

I have listed some examples of what other features I like of AmigaOS in my previous post. Also, I can't think of any feature which I'd miss in OS4 and would be available on other platforms. BTW I also found the 20 advantages of OS4 listed on Hyperion's webpage to be spot-on. Unfortunately I can't check if those pages are still available on Hyperion's recently revamped website (I'm behind a proxy), and archive.org seem to have only the main page stored.

Varthall

Last edited by Varthall on 24-Jul-2009 at 10:56 AM.

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AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram