@serk118

Quote:

if amigans want cheap cheap hw

What on earth has tsjiep tsjiep hw to do with amigans? Are they going to run Windows or something?

Lifting an old croon's t!ts does not magically turn her into a young maid again. And believe me x86 *IS* an old croon! Around since the late '70ies she is (over-)mature with 30 years, having undergone quite some plastic surgery in order to make her look young again. Actually the only reason she is still around is the fact that she beds with Microsoft's Windows and has to cope with his ever more demanding nature, forcing her to undergo frequent 'extreme make overs'. Leave the old croon and her partner-for-life and give them a nice place, but very out of the way, in a nursery for the elderly.

I, for one, have a liking for a fresh approach and, as a fair and handsome young maiden, PPC until now and her roadmap look sufficiently promissing to me, but then again I'm no h/w designer or something. I'm just a potential customer. One who actually *HAS* money and is willing to spend it on a young maiden, albeshe not neccessarilly a virgin, and being fully aware of the fact, by sheer experience, that a young woman is more expensive to lay hands on then an old croon, the latter readily available in resorts for the elderly, known as geriatric kennels. But one who is certainly not willing to spend it on an old croon. No way! Yulg!

OldFart

_________________
More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/163510

good observation

@marko

Quote:

This thread has gone mental, long time ago...

Yeah, man! It's great fun overhere. Anyone an join the party. No knowledge of the matter at hand required. Hand me the popcorn, please. You fancy a beer?

OldFart

_________________
More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

I hope all you anti PPC people would start backing Aros instead, there is absolutely no point in bringing these port OS4 to X, Y, Z every 2 weeks. Myself got tired of it too. It's not going to happen and Hyperionmp alerady told you that.

When I started here at AW I was very pro OS4 and open and ready to buy into it and the so called "next gen amiga" but I did not have the money for a uA1 wight way and Eyetech threw in the towel and it all has been a mess ever since. I don't want to be part of that, thank you. No matter what you wish, belive or do for your beloved Amiga OS there's always going to be a few parties ripping Amiga apart in court. So call it FUD but it's been proven over and over again.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

Not a hardware move? Memory protection? New features to Workbench? Java?

@Al4

only snowman maker 2 coming soon

_________________
I was a ZX Spectrum owner....

@thread

I'm regretting I've ever posted anything into this thread. Now somebody's misusing my words out of context on some unmoderated c**p website. I suggest that person to remove his/her post from there.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 29-Jul-2009 at 11:07 PM.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@OldFart

Here you go...

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM
C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
m4rko.com/AMIGA

@OldFart

Quote:

I, for one, have a liking for a fresh approach and, as a fair and handsome young maiden, PPC until now and her roadmap look sufficiently promissing to me, but then again I'm no h/w designer or something.

I hope you enjoy your shiny special made Amiga PPC laptop.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@marko

+1

@Tomppeli

Big MooBunny is watching your every move!

Yeehaw! and welcome to the madness!

@billt


Laptop, where, when, who, what, how?

PLease tell me about this laptop, I must have missed something since the last time I checked this thread, or is this yet another pipe dream in the works at the moment?




Cheers

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@Gebrochen

It's a pipe dream...

Q!

"i am home"

@OldFart

Quote:

What on earth has tsjiep tsjiep hw to do with amigans? Are they going to run Windows or something?

If you want older users to come back to the Amiga you should not make the price tag too high which is the main problem also with the Sam. People that want to try out OS 4 immediatly have to spend way too much money. And if they then see what they get for it they might not even bother anymore.
From a business prospective, if they want more customers for OS4, the hardware price tag has to come down.

Quote:

Lifting an old croon's t!ts does not magically turn her into a young maid again. And believe me x86 *IS* an old croon! Around since the late '70ies she is (over-)mature with 30 years yada yada yada

Modern x86 or I should better say x64 CPU's like the Core2Duo or Core2Quad are completely different beast with regard to the x86 CPU's from 30 years ago or even 10 years ago. It's not a matter of ramping up the clock speed why these CPU's are so fast. The only thing the modern CPU's have in common with the 30 year old technolgy is the instruction set. Technically they are master pieces.
The Roadmaps for CPU's from Intel and AMD are going a lot faster then for the PowerPC. This is because a lot more of them get sold which means bigger development budget and lower end user prices. Especially after Apple ditched the PowerPC this is a problem for the roadmap and prices. With this in mind the PowerPC is already a dead end for desktops and laptops( oh, and if someone starts quoting again that the CPU is still much used in embedded stuff like cars; I'm talking about DESKTOPS and LAPTOPS or I'll take that car and run you over with it).

Your long story about how PPC is better then x86 because the x86 is 30 years old is nonsense. Only the instruction set remains; that what is behind it state of the art.

The Sam has the same problem as the AmigaOne or every piece of Amiga hardware. If the company goes bankrupt there are no more repairs, no more new units and no more replacement hardware. Then we again have no hardware. What do you mean CPU replacements? We don't even have hardware with a CPU socket so we can change the CPU if it dies.

I have find it hard that any investor would invest in software that has a pretty high risk tag of failling if the only hardware supplier goes bust.

But then again; if you people want OS4 to go absolutelly nowhere then by all means believe in the PowerPC story but in the future this is a dead end.

_________________
AmigaOne-XE G3 OS 4.
A4000 PPC
A1200 PPC

@marko

Ah, refreshing, isn't it?

OldFart

_________________
More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!

@PulsatingQuasar

Quote:

PulsatingQuasar wrote: Quote: What on earth has tsjiep tsjiep hw to do with amigans? Are they going to run Windows or something? If you want older users to come back to the Amiga you should not make the price tag too high which is the main problem also with the Sam. People that want to try out OS 4 immediatly have to spend way too much money.

The success of the Amiga

The typical good selling Amiga mass product was the A500 and the A1200.

The price of this products was low, because they had a cheap high integrated chipset, low CPU performance, shared memory for GFX, CPU,Sound and no expensive HD.

Most people bought it as a game console and discovered the computer in it later.

Being cheap was the reason for the success of the Amiga, so OldFart’s mocking about 'tsjiep ' is like people denying the Amiga concept.

Where are the old Amiga Fans

Most of these customers are now using Wintel-PCs or to game consoles. To get them back you would need a cheap computer, stripped down as much as possible, more something like an EFIKA than a Sam440.

I don't see any chances to get something cheap for PPC now (except used MACs), the Pandora or Netbooks are going in a similar way. But this is not the problem of the OS, it is a problem of hardware and there are no licensed products that might do this.

So what could Hyperion do?
A)
They can port AOS4 to ARM or x86. This will need some years, in the meantime there will be no new AOS4 users, no income for Hyperion and nothing will change for the AOS4 users.
Or
B)
Hyperion could try to support existing PPC hardware, some used Macs for example, the OS has not to be changed for the support of PPC Macs, just the hardware drivers.
This will give them some time to port AOS4 to another CPU.

So what could 'Amigans' do?
For people that want to have an AmigaOS on other hardware now, they can switch to AROS. AROS is getting better every day. Don't say AROS is missing to much, AROS is running much better on x86 than AOS4 does today.

Choice is on you
You can use AROS or buy a Sam440, choice is on you, don’t wait for Hyperion.
If Hyperion really ports AOS4 to x86, they will need more time than AROS will need to become a perfect Amiga replacement.
So I don't see much future for AOS4 at all, not because it is bad or Hyperion’s know how, just because the situation is bad and AROS is a growing competitor.

There is one good fact about it: The future of AmigaOS doesn't depend on Hyperion.

Last edited by Arko on 30-Jul-2009 at 09:10 AM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

I honestly do not agree. I don't think an Efika style price/performance would attract a lot of previous users. (I agree with you on several other points, though)

An AWESOME machine with AWESOME software might have a chance at doing that, REGARDLESS of what processor sits in the middle.

But there's TWO things in that sence we currently lack. One is the awesome machine, but that only takes ONE team of maybe FIVE people to mitigate in the course of THREE months or so.

The SECOND part is trickier. We actually need some better software if there is to be ANY chance of a comeback. Arguing about which hardware is better right now is of no consequence. It's totally not unheard of that a good coder with a good project will get the machine (as a loan or a gift) from a company or a group donation. Therefore we (the comunity) should focus on this: Making better software. For some this means work, for others it might mean financial support to the people working.

So, whether we end up with PPC, ARM or some form of x86 somewhere down the road has very little to do with our tasks at hand. If someone here is unable to accept this, then why don't you just bugger off and go support the AROS guys (financially, morally or creatively). See, there already IS an Amiga OS for X86, and it's called AROS.

Last edited by olegil on 30-Jul-2009 at 09:15 AM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@billt

Quote:

I hope you enjoy your shiny special made Amiga PPC laptop.

Why bother with something like that, when you could just use existing PPC Mac laptops instead?

Sort of offtopic, but I have heard that the current development version of Mac Mini version of MorphOS 2 already works on some mac laptops, even if it wasn't specifically ported for them. The point being, that if the Mac Mini version was finished, adding (initial) laptop support should be easier than f.ex. adding support for totally different PPC platform.

@olegil

Quote:

I honestly do not agree. I don't think an Efika style price/performance would attract a lot of previous users. (I agree with you on several other points, though)

Maybe I should have pointed it out some more ... the EFIKA has bad CPU and GFX performance, an Amiga that would atract masses had to compete with game consoles ... not with desktop PCs.

Quote:

An AWESOME machine with AWESOME software might have a chance at doing that, REGARDLESS of what processor sits in the middle.

Something mediocre like the Wii does attract more customers than the PS3 ... and a PS3 needs millions for development and it is sponsored by selling games ... that is not the way an Amiga could go.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

Quote:

Being cheap was the reason for the success of the Amiga, so OldFart's mocking about 'tsjiep ' is like people denying the Amiga concept.

Being cheap is certainly NOT the most important selling point! An offer for cheap cooking utensils won't make people buy a kitchen full of the stuff. Neither will an offer for very cheap lawnmowers make people buy sheds full of lawnmowers. Nor will an offer for extremely cheap toilet paper make people buy so much of the stuff that the toilet lacks the room for performing the job of which the use of that paper is about the conclusive act.

First rule in trade: make people identify theselves with the product. Apple did a good job on this. and they could sell their wares at a premium price. Harley-Davidson did a simmilar job and did well. Or Rolls-Royce.
You can make cheap computers, but if you target your audience in the middle and upper income class, then you fail in your marketing strategy. HD could very well make cheap motorcycles (and actually did in the '70ies!), but the company aims at those people who want to identify themselves with the brand and are willing to pay generously for that privilege. The same goes for RR.

If you want to reach the masses, you have to supply what the masses want: Windows XP, because that's what everybody in the street has. And indeed as cheap as can be. As long as they are not using some flavour of Linux, forget about that market! A far better market is he one where people are toying with Linux on their computer. Just because they are interested in 'what is behind the curtains'. They have shown curiosity and accept that there are more ways to achieve a goal. THAT group may be made interested in Amiga as a platform: they are fully aware that it will be more expensive and therefore, but, hey!, their interest in the Amiga is tickled and they are going to justify for themselves the premium compared to the cheap stuff they already have. They are often called the avant-garde or vanguard.
Reattracting once-Amigans back to the platform may prove counterproductive as they start reminicing about what once was. They have probably moved from being technologically interested to a mere user with a substantial background about computing. They will soon lose interest again as it would bring them back to the timkering stage, a stage they have passed forgood.

In short you need audience that:
a) is willing to spend money
b) has an interest in the computing technology
c) may have heard of the very uncommon practices applied by Amiga (OS, not Inc.!, allthough the latter might prove interesting for them as well...)

I don't give a d@mn for cheap hardware, hence my mocking it by referring to it as 'tsjiep'.

'nough said.

OldFart

EDIT: typo's

Last edited by OldFart on 30-Jul-2009 at 11:20 AM.

_________________
More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed!