@minator

Quote:

PPC Macs are cheap but are no longer being made

you said it not being made any more thats also = any ppc so thats why we amigans who realy care dont want Slow/pricey ppc`es and we want to move from ppc market becouse there is no ppc market and we want to be in the game with secure market & we now x86 is the most secure market for amiga due to we have no HW and only way to get more developers in are area is GO_AOSx86 or we are in trouble with PPC HW get stuck buying second hand mac`s and helping ppcmac users getrid of dead ppc`es.

I dont want second hand macs or bid for used ppcmac`s on the ebay NO thank you sir

you can not say amiga is back when we are using macs. (can we?)

Quote:

PS3 gives you access to a market with millions of potential users

AmigaOS its an OS Not an Game to ps3 or any other game consoles...

_________________
http://aros-exec.org/

http://serk118.blogspot.com/

Hi,
I've seen from previous posts on this thread that Hyperion are watching.

Could be that they are watching to see what suggestions people come up with (so they can implement) before saying exactly what the are working on.

Could be its just not ready yet.

I suppose we should all just sit back and wait, however that's not the Amiga way.

What do we want?
When do we want it?

_________________
1 AmigaOne G4XE (OS4 Pre-Release Update4)
Minimig
Sam440ep + OS4.1FE
Sam460cr + OS4.1FE

@serk118

Quote:

you can not say amiga is back when we are using macs. (can we?)

The SAM board is not a Mac, and OS4.1 runs on it. You want AmigaOS, you buy SAM. Simple!

Which bit of "an x86 port is not on the cards" did you not understand?

If you want the OS, you buy the hardware, it's always been this way.

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@1Mouse

Quote:

Could be that they are watching to see what suggestions people come up with (so they can implement) before saying exactly what the are working on.

The plain answer to that is "No". The project is underway, regardless of how many thousands of forum posts there will be pleading for a port to x86.

Once the project has matured enough to give a reasonable estimate of a final product, the "community" will be informed, not before.

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo

No hints then?

Hardware/Software?

Deadline?

_________________
1 AmigaOne G4XE (OS4 Pre-Release Update4)
Minimig
Sam440ep + OS4.1FE
Sam460cr + OS4.1FE

@serk118

Quote:

AmigaOS its an OS Not an Game to ps3 or any other game consoles...

Are you saying linux it´s a game?

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@rigo

Either ARM, a PPC board/device or a software advance (memory protection?). I like the guessing, even though I have little idea as to what it will be.

from Ars Technica:

Quote:

Is it ever going to be possible to get memory protection for new OS4 apps, even if old OS3 apps can't take advantage of it? Probably, yes. This is, in fact, one of the things we are looking at for future versions of the OS. It's an active research topic right now, but it's high priority

Last edited by Al4 on 01-Aug-2009 at 09:27 PM.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Arko Quote: If you want to use an enhanced AmigaOS that is compatible in soft- but not in hardware, you can invest in an AOS4 or MOS system. I guess that's what I want,

So you should not complain about UAE, UAE is not a part of AOS4 ( or MOS ) and it was never on the feature list of AOS4 ( or MOS ).

And if you want to play old games that access the hardware without using the OS, you need the hardware or an hardware emulator and this is UAE.

Last edited by Arko on 01-Aug-2009 at 10:06 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 01-Aug-2009 at 10:04 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Al4

Gee...if you're going to quote ars, why not go for the bit on page 5, since this IS the rumor thread, right?

Quote:

A Hyperion developer told me that not only has the OS been run on a PS3, but they have even tested support for the seven SPU units in the Cell processor.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Link?

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@cha05e90

Quote:

Link?

http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2008/09/amigaos41-ars.ars/5

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

LONG POST WARNING. ( This is just my opinion )

Making an AmigaOS 4.x for x86 shouldn't be that hard. Choose a common nVidia or ATI video card and make a standard nVidia support driver that would work on a number of nVidia card for PCI-X. Make a AmigaOS equivelent of Windows XPs generic SVGA video driver that works with various standard SVGA video modes and color depth that works on virtually every video cards. There is a base set driver out and that all video cards today has a higher base level of video modes supported. Nowadays, we can have a driver that runs at 1280 x 1024 x 32bpp and run on every video card produced. It is an unoptimized card but every video card supports these modes. So it will run right out of the box. Choose a moderboard with an onboard sound chip (Creative Labs) and port the drivers over to AmigaOS. As time moves forward, we can have a optimized drivers. Basic chipset drivers should be packaged and we should support the common chipset like the Intel chipset and VIA chipset. This is for your Northbridge & Southbridge chips. You don't have to have absolute optimized out of the box.

We can add more. Just like Windows. As each subsequent version comes out such as a 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4 - it can be have added drivers. Perhaps, shipping out a drivers DVD.

Choose a run of the mill - inexpensive motherboard with onboard video & sound that has lots of slots so you can upgrade. A run of the mill - board with a decent Nvidia or ATI video with a decent Creative Labs sound chip. I personally like Yamaha as well.

Then we add on upgrades that we know work. Make a generic VGA driver that works with almost any produced video card that can be the fall back default driver that supports most standard modes just like Windows XP has for cards that you don't have the optimal driver can give you a generic driver with many modes all the way up to 1280 x 1024 x 32 Bpp. Then a user can DL or install an optimized video driver for the specific card.

Almost ever video card is able to support a generic VGA driver with up to 1280 x 1024 x 32bpp. Some special video modes like high definition wide aspect modes might need a specific driver. Write one up that is smart and complies with current VGA specs standards that is out there. It won't be optimal but all have a standard set level complying with a standard specification version. Just be up to date with current SVGA standard.

There is a base-line standard and make your generic driver upto date. Most cards produced today will comply with a generic driver without being locked down to 640x480 @ 16 colors like years ago.

This is good. Follow that model to get an x86 AmigaOS off the ground.

Learn a lesson from Microsoft. They have done some things right.

Just a thought. PPC has lost grounds because intel has monopoly of the desktop computing market and so does Microsoft in the desktop OS market.

Linux had problems in the past because they have issues where people had to notoriously be stuck to a default 640 x 480 @ 16 color video mode as the fallback and no updated drivers.

As drivers are added, more support for more motherboards and video cards and stuff. This grows over time. Once an OS is made, the first major work is working hard on drivers and PPC emulation to support classic PPC stuff as time transitions with more software. Game / App developers can help by issuing drivers with the games to support more video and sound cards and network drivers. Doing join work and those developing games can also work in on making drivers. While this all is being put out, we can also send the drivers to a central repository that Hyperion/Amiga can archive and include in update packages and later editions of the OS with most up to date versions at time of OS introduction.

Hyperion/Amiga can't do it all on their own. Not even Microsoft. As there is more AmigaOS x86 in use, hw companies may begin issuing drivers themselves. Many support Windows, Linux, and MacOS. Eventually Google's new OS. If we attract some users, AmigaOS will eventually be supported by the hardware manufacturers. There just needs to be enough users to meet the threshold for cost.

AmigaOS can gain grounds if the hardware wasn't some limited production proprietary thing that only an elite class of people. Remember, in the 80s - Commodores philosophy - Computer for the Masses not the Classes. AmigaOS for the masses not the classes.

Jack Tramiel is right when it comes to computers.. that is what made the C64 successful.

Limited production hardware is not my personal cup of tea. A PPC emulator may not run as fast as PPC with current production x86 with the fastest PPC produced but we can be safe to say that x86 will be around for some time with ever faster and with even more cores. When we have 16 core x86 running at 3-4 GHz and then with eventually 256 core x86. We need to plan for SMP (multi-core) with perhaps plans on immediately supporting a 32 Bit variable indicating number of CPUs - 32-Bit CPU ID#. This could allow for a very powerful potential growth with ever evolving hardware. Imagine 4 Billion nanoscopic sized x86 CPUs running at 4 GHz each. That is equivelent to say - 4 Billion times faster then a 4 GHz single-core CPU. Far fetch... sure but you build a foundation right now for long term.

If you are going to compete - compete. Think ahead. Multi-core is the present and future of x86 technology. In fact plan x86 & x64 (64-Bit x86). Make provision for a 128 Bit and 256 Bit CPU architecture by keeping up with intel and intel's future road map. That is what Microsoft does. If it is giving Microsoft a marketing success then why not give Hyperion/Amiga?

No sense, doing the opposite just because M$ does it. There is 500+ Million Microsoft Windows users - that has to say something for good business sense.

This isn't about promoting Microsoft. This is about learning what is giving the "competitor" success.

A question may be - why are we investing money and time on making an OS if we aren't competing? Why new versions?

Food for thought.

@Wildstar128

What makes you think OS4.1 is ready to take on the big OS? Much needs to be done first.
Cairo is now supported and more to come hopefully. Java is needed.

To drop all of this to fix the "endian" thing and do another port to something so different would kill it/us/ them. Stop.

Chris

@QuikSanz

Quote:

QuikSanz wrote: @Wildstar128 What makes you think OS4.1 is ready to take on the big OS? Much needs to be done first.

It's not ready to take on the big OS? What does that have to do with wanting to run AmigaOS4 on fast and more affordable hardware.

AmigaOS is a hobby OS. There's no competing with other OSes. Let's just do what we want with our OS. Lets not charge each other $1000 just to use it. How can we all contribute and grow at least a little with $1000 entry point. A few select will use it and it will continue to die.

Stop worrying about other OSes guys.

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

That was a good response to point #1. How about a response to point #2 & 3?

Chris

@QuikSanz

Quote:

QuikSanz wrote: @AmigaHeretic That was a good response to point #1. How about a response to point #2 & 3? Chris

Not sure how point 2 figures in if we are talking about a port. Cairo would be ported and we'd still need Java.

Again, lowering the barrier to enter AmigaOS4 from the crazy $1000 range we might get more developers. Some we lost along the way. At the very least we'd be able to at least "run" Java at decent speed. A real heavy Java app on 600mhz cpu that has no L2 cache seems like a bad idea to me


The 3rd point about endian. One could address this in a lot of ways. Some say endian is really that big a deal, old apps (68k) are run through an emulated JIT on PPC or x86, so wont matter there.

I guess the biggest thing I can think about overcoming endianes, if there is real that much to overcome, would be to bring it back to basics. How long to overcome endianes issues vs overcoming mythical modern PPC hardware (including a laptop).

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote: @QuikSanz Quote: QuikSanz wrote: @AmigaHeretic That was a good response to point #1. How about a response to point #2 & 3? Chris Not sure how point 2 figures in if we are talking about a port. Cairo would be ported and we'd still need Java.

Cairo is already here. Java is another story.

So you think development should stop immediately for two or three years to make it X86 compatible?

Kill it all. Full Stop. NO.

Chris

Quote:

If you want the OS, you buy the hardware, it's always been this way.

The only problem is that you don't buy any hardware because of the OS.

You buy hardware because of the software the OS/machine runs. Now it's always been *this* way.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@QuikSanz

Quote:

QuikSanz wrote: So you think development should stop immediately for two or three years to make it X86 compatible? Kill it all. Full Stop. NO. Chris

Not at all. Did Apple stop developers stop making software for OSX while Apple ported to x86? No, of course not.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

New software can continue to be created/ported to AmigaOS4 PPC. Compile it later for AmigaOS4 x86.

As long as people are creating/porting software in a system friendly way it should work on AmigaOS4-x86. Look at WookieChat as a great example, compiles for AROS x86, 68k, PPC AmigaOS4... etc.


The question I have to ask you with a response like that is:

Are you suggesting AmigaOS4 should "NEVER" be ported to any other CPU?


If it should be ported to some other CPU at some point, then what indicators would suggest the porting be OK with you? Like when there is no PPC desktop/laptop at more than 600mhz for $800?

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

Not at all. Did Apple stop developers stop making software for OSX while Apple ported to x86? No, of course not.

Of course not, because before they switched to OSX, Apple had developed the PPC and x86 versions together. The Unix ( Mach2 BSD ) kernel used for OSX was ready to use, long before OSX became MacOS9 compatible.

Every time Steve Jobs presented a new PPC Mac as technical superior product, he knew he can always switch to x86 if he wanted.

Hyperion has less resources Apple had, but maybe Hyperion is already working on a Linux ( Unix, BSD, ... ) hosted AOS4 version, that would make a port very easy, maybe 2 years instead of 3 years. But I don't think there will be much resources left to do any AOS4 enhancements or bug fixes in the meantime ...

.. in 2-3 years AROS may be much more usable than any x86 AOS4, AOS4 could only lose against its Amiga competitors.


cu

Last edited by Arko on 02-Aug-2009 at 02:08 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 02-Aug-2009 at 01:22 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 02-Aug-2009 at 12:20 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0