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      /  OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 12:57:37
#121 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@fairlanefastback
Rob replied for me at post 118 (thanks!)

Last edited by DAX on 02-Nov-2009 at 12:58 PM.

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sundown 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 19:20:01
#122 ]
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Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5095
From: Right here...

@ChrisH

Quote:
What would you like me to change it to say?

I suggest replacing the text after "* OS4.2" with a question mark, as there is no official OS4.2 yet.

Edit: Never mind...

Last edited by sundown on 02-Nov-2009 at 08:06 PM.

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ssolie 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 19:30:38
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2692
From: Alberta, Canada

@ChrisH
Quote:
What would you like me to change it to say?

Change "OS4.2 was revealed by Steven Solie:" to
"Future AmigaOS goals were revealed by Hyperion:"

I was representing Hyperion Entertainment so be clear it was not me who was making any claims but rather Hyperion.

Change "Multi-core (SMP) support! Sounded like this would continue to be developed after OS4.2, presumably because it is such a major change." to
"SMP support continues to be a future goal for AmigaOS."

If you look back in time, one of the first AmigaOS 4.0 feature lists included SMP along with automatic stack extension, memory mapped files and a whole bunch of advanced features. That list is obviously obsolete and included the usual disclaimer but my point is that SMP has been planned for a long time. What is new here is Hyperion has restated that SMP is still an important goal and thus you can expect resources are being used to implement that feature. When SMP may be delivered has not been announced. It is only a future goal.

The same goes for all the other future goals. They are only future goals. There is no version number attached to any of the goals. I am sorry for the confusion.

So my big problem with your "roadmap" is that it isn't a roadmap at all. After 4.1.1 nothing more has been announced by Hyperion. All you have there are a few future goals. I obviously failed to make this clear during AmiWest and I appologize for that but it is the truth.

If and when Hyperion wants to share a real roadmap versus this small set of future goals is completely up to those in charge. At this time there is no public roadmap. Only a few future goals and no version numbers applied to any of them.

I appreciate people are exciting about AmigaOS again (so am I) but my failure to communicate clearly for Hyperion is doing more harm than good because customer expectations are really getting out of whack. Let's all calm down and just take it for what it is. It is a list of future goals and nothing more than that. I did mention "4.2" as a possible version number and I was not told to do that--it was my personal error. I was merely trying to make a concrete example. Hyperion has not committed to 4.2 until the boss says they have. So again, there is no public roadmap beyond a few future goals.

Is that clear now?

P.S. This is why you never let an Engineer make public announcements...

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Troels 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 19:40:59
#124 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1974
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Thanks for the clarification, I think it was nice to hear about some of the future goals for AmigaOS.

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amitv 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 19:43:10
#125 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 342
From: Unknown

@ssolie

always the same thing

Last edited by amitv on 02-Nov-2009 at 07:43 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 20:40:20
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@ssolie
Changed! Sorry for any problems caused. Ways that this kind of thing can be avoided in the future:

* An official show/presentation transcript, or
* An official summary of what you said, maybe a day after the show.

(There is of course a third alternative, of not giving out any info before it is ready for release, but it would seem that Hyperion felt the need to give some info out, so I hope that isn't really an option they are considering...)

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Tuxedo 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 20:49:01
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2214
From: Perugia, ITALY

@ssolie

Thank's for clarifications, but...
I really think that Hyperion(anyone from it) must made some dort of real and public roadmap taht will try to tell us where and (possihbly) when AmigaOS will got some new feature(the most important I mean...).
Naturally I dont want to get a 100% exact roadmap but, I think, we all(the guys that belives in AmigaOS naturally) have the right to know about that...
I know that Rouge and the others was sick and tired of the guys that have nothing to do that made bad comments about Hyperion announcementes, but that wasnt an excuse to leave us waitnig without a target for months to months...
And naturally that roadmap can be modified in any time...AmigaOS development was clearly a project that was developed with passion but for really few peoples so I dont see anything strange if may happen that some roadmap point can change...
I repeat...the guys that speaks only to flame dontmatter to me...I care about the real AmigaOS supporters that suffer from that situation...imho naturally...

Last edited by Tuxedo on 02-Nov-2009 at 08:49 PM.

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cha05e90 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 21:13:03
#128 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2009
Posts: 1252
From: Germany

@ChrisH

Whatever we/you/Steve do, it will come out as ever. In (f.ex.) two years someone will complain about Hyperion and their "broken promises" to implement a proper > put in your favorite feature here < and will have a link ready where "they announced this". And maybe I (or other people), will try to convince the rest of the world that there was never such an announcement. Sigh.

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amije 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 0:12:27
#129 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Apr-2006
Posts: 401
From: Thessaloniki Greece

conclusion: two more weeks

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fairlanefastback 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 2:48:12
#130 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@fairlanefastback

According to Matt Sealey of Genesi, the Fixstars price does not add up and they have to selling the PowerStation at a loss and making the money back elsewhere.
Apparently Hyperion have discussed OS4 with Fixstars but no deal went forward.

What Dax is referring to is my speculation as to why no deal was made. They were probably be unwilling to share documentation with Hyperion without clear conditions about OS4 being bundled with non discounted Powerstation hardware.

Have a look at the following links to see where I drew my conclusions from.

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6484&forum=11

http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1739&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15


Matt offers an opinion that they are "probably" selling at a loss.

TheKorn does not specify why Fixstars and Hyperion did not make a deal.

But regardless of any of that the machine is advertised as $1250 to the public. Please explain to me how it will be $2250 instead when its already $1250 with no known strings attached already.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 03-Nov-2009 at 02:51 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 03-Nov-2009 at 02:50 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 6:46:46
#131 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@ssolie

Submit yourself to a public flogging, 20 lashes should be sufficient I think. I have lost my bullwhip, but I think we can find a substitute somewhere, maybe that ethernet cable we were pulling around the AmiWest 2009 hotel at close to midnight on Saturday night would do.

Thanks for the clarifications, as IMHO, the speculations and assumptions were starting to get way out of hand. You have done a good job of clearing it up though, so I think Hyperion and crew might forgive you.

It is good to have excitement about AmigaOS4.x future, but reality is always better than disappointment from misunderstanding and unfulfilled expectations. Now that Hyperion is free from law suits and threats, hopefully they will make even better progress over the next 12 months.

See you at next year's AmiWest (in a different hotel I hope, no more cold showers, and a pool that is open and has a nice HOT spa to soak in at the end of the day), but next year you must come and participate in the Game Competition. Remember even the last place got a prize this year.

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 6:49:15
#132 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@fairlanefastback

Quote:
But regardless of any of that the machine is advertised as $1250 to the public. Please explain to me how it will be $2250 instead when its already $1250 with no known strings attached already.


In my opinion if you're going to invest a considerable amount of money (and effort) into porting an operating system to a piece of hardware, you will want to ensure that this hardware will be available and produced when your efforts are finished and you are ready to release the OS to that hardware, in fact you will want that hardware to be available for quite some time after that, so that a market can actually start to grow. It's very risky to rely on something which you have no control of and could be discontinued any time, or its price be changed any time. So Hyperion would want to make an agreement with the board manufacturer to ensure that the product is available when you want it. I mean, in the real world no company is going to rely on another for a product they are making, without having a contract signed with that company to ensure that your work doesn't go to the rubbish bin.

So my guess is that if the rumours are true that Hyperion contacted them and no deal was made, they probably couldn't get them to agree to have a batch of these boards secured for the AmigaOS market, or at least not for a reasonable price. But to be honest I wouldn't want such a noisy server machine in my room here at home anyway, sure I would like higher performance, but not at any cost.

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HKvalhe 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 11:19:59
#133 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Apr-2009
Posts: 483
From: Norway

@All

Well, it's important to understand that Hyperion didn't make any promises. They are extremely careful to promise anything, not wanting to fail as Commodore did in the past..

But the rumours that were revealed are at least the plans Hyperion want to do for future AmigaOS 4.x versions. It remains to be seen what will be incorporated in version 4.1.1, 4.1.2 and 4.2, in addition to extra updates that might be necessary for some certain stuffs. Fingers crossed..

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 11:38:41
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@fairlanefastback
The fact is, you cannot order one on their site, they give indicative prices and then ask to contact them for purchase.
When you do, they will probably reply "yes the HW cost this" and the services cost "this" for this number of machines. If you then reply "no, I just want to privately purchase a single machine with no service" they will probably refuse to sell it, saying things like, "we do not cater for single customers, we only serve corporate clients" and so on (which leads us back to the HW+Services policy).

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Mrodfr 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 11:57:53
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

@all

We all need to konw at least features for AOS4 that will be added or improved in a near or long futur.

It's not easy to be motivated if nothing could be announced and if users can't said something to futur new amiga users if nothing are known.

If the only method to know something about AOS4 futur is to go to show and talk quietly to betatesters to know the AOS4 futur, It's not good for me

Timberwolf IMHO is great because friedens have and will post sometime news about this project and It's each time verry good news IMHO.

When MorphOS update page show with details the added and improved parts on a new morpHOS release, I'm become jealous to not have as detailed and explained for AOS4 next new version.

Users want to have a roadmap and sometime up to date about AOS4 futur. Maybe a man or woman charged about communication between AOS4 and the userbase should be verry welcomed

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fairlanefastback 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 12:23:12
#136 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@fairlanefastback
The fact is, you cannot order one on their site, they give indicative prices and then ask to contact them for purchase.
When you do, they will probably reply "yes the HW cost this" and the services cost "this" for this number of machines. If you then reply "no, I just want to privately purchase a single machine with no service" they will probably refuse to sell it, saying things like, "we do not cater for single customers, we only serve corporate clients" and so on (which leads us back to the HW+Services policy).


In essence it sounds like you are saying they are probably engaging in false advertising when you don't have any factual info to back that up. There is no reason to not take them at their word that its $1250 unless we have a valid reason to otherwise. If volume pricing were really there and if $1250 was the best volume pricing you could get, you'd have to be pretty sad marketer to not say something like "prices start at" or have an asterisk with a notation about volume pricing. You'd never make these assumptions about Acube is the impression I get. Be fair.

If they are indeed doing what you say they probably are, then show us. Until then they get the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 03-Nov-2009 at 12:24 PM.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 13:34:34
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@fairlanefastback
There is no proof that these guys do deal with "Joe Average" either.

Anyway a lot of "probably" and "I think" are spruced in my sentences (that would sum up as "benefit of doubt").
I'm not saying they do false advertising, just that I don't think they do not work with private single customers. From what i gather from their web-site they seem a corporate/enterprise focused company but I might be wrong of course.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 14:09:43
#138 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@fairlanefastback
There is no proof that these guys do deal with "Joe Average" either.

Anyway a lot of "probably" and "I think" are spruced in my sentences (that would sum up as "benefit of doubt").
I'm not saying they do false advertising, just that I don't think they do not work with private single customers. From what i gather from their web-site they seem a corporate/enterprise focused company but I might be wrong of course.



Its not as if PPC desktops are likely in great demand to business customers. And, again, there is no mention of minimums to purchase or that prices "start" at $1250. "Probably" paints a picture that hardly seems fair without evidence to the contrary. Are you honestly saying you'd be ok with someone saying Acube "probably" sells SAM at an obscene profit? Such a statement would be just as irresponsible. If you search your heart, are you really giving the same benefit of the doubt to both companies? Or are you maybe being a little but harder on one than the other?

If its the truth we really want, lets just email them. I'll send one today and ask.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 3-Nov-2009 14:16:52
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@fairlanefastback
And I am really interested to their response!

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those that said they wouldn't want it anyway because it's noisy and hot, but it would make no sense at all not to use such a a machine if it was so easily available.
I have heard some arguments on why it would not be so available after all (and I have hastily endorsed them, I give you that), but I still can't get a single valid argument on why Hyperion isn't interested although anyone can buy them for 1250(?)

The only one (for certain people here) is that they are idiots. I don't think so though and I strongly believe a piece of the puzzle is missing...

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fairlanefastback 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 3:41:27
#140 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@DAX

From Fixstars:


Quote:
Thank you very much for contacting Fixstars about Powerstation.

No, we won't charge you any sales tax since we ship it from Colorado. The shipping charge would be $45 by UPS Ground including handling charge.

Yes, we would take a credit card.

We are looking forward to receiving your order.

Best regards, Hiroshi Sato
Fixstars Solutions, Inc.

Mail from contact@fixstars.com:
> Please reply to the following inquiry.
>
>
> PowerStation
>
> If purchasing a single machine as a private individual what is the total cost? $1250 plus shipping? Do you take credit cards?
>
> What would be the cost of shipping options to New York, NY? Do you charge any tax for purchases to NY?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Individual or Corporate : individual client


And there you have it. $1295 to my door for the machine, the shipping, and the handling fee. Nothing against Rob's theory, but now we know.

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