@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Since the rights of Hyperion to the "AmigaOS" trademark are exclusive, nobody but Hyperion can release AmigaOS 5, 6 etc. Moreover, please verify the definition of "AmigaOS" ( 1 d.).

Yeah, I get that only you can market anything called "AmigaOS" (and AmigaOne), but the contract specifically calls the software you are entitled to develop as "Amiga OS4" In other words, you can develop AmigaOS4 however you like, but that's not the same as saying you can develop AmigaOS5, etc. You can however prevent anyone else from developing them.

I understand the meaning of the contract, but the actual wording doesn't as far as I see (I doo have a heavy cold so forgive me if I'm missing the obvious) back up your rights to develop anything other than OS4.

Given your history of drawing up contracts, I'm just trying to make sure you really do have all bases covered this time. In ten years time, I'm wondering if I'll be using AmigaOS4.99999999999999999999992.

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@itix

Quote:

Err, you think there ever was real case from Friedens against Hyperion?

Speculation, and actually wrong.

The reason for the lawsuit against Amiga and Hyperion was to seek a declaratory judgment on the ownership of our respective work. At that time there was a preliminary injunction on the table that would have forced Hyperion to deliver the source code of AmigaOS 4 (without prejudice) to Amiga Inc. We merely tried to ensure that this does not happen and that the rights to our work is secured.

There was no quarry with Hyperion (or Amiga for the matter), since there was no demand on damages or anything of that nature. It was merely an attempt to secure the result of several years of work.

Not too much to ask, don't you think?

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Errr... Fair enough.

Actually, no, and I am quite surprised you accept as a fact something that is mere speculation.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

Yeah, I get that only you can market anything called "AmigaOS" (and AmigaOne), but the contract specifically calls the software you are entitled to develop as "Amiga OS4" In other words, you can develop AmigaOS4 however you like, but that's not the same as saying you can develop AmigaOS5, etc. You can however prevent anyone else from developing them.

Check out the definition of "AmigaOS 4" (under Definitions, d.), especially the last part. I think this means they can just go on and make 5 and 6 if they want to.

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

So, I guess they still need a license from Amiga if they don't want to call a computer sporting Amiga OS, an Amiga One. Am I the only one that thought "Amiga One" was/is a silly name. They have to license the Amiga name to call a computer they release in some form of partnership an "Amiga". They still can't just relabel a SAM as an "Amiga". They can call it an Amiga One however because they own that trademark.

They can call SAM as an "Amiga One" but it would be silly.

Quote:

Or do they have rights to a version or model number suffix. ie. Like calling it an Amiga 5000 or something.

Only AmigaOS, Amiga OS, AmigaOne and Amiga One are allowed. But if there is money and interest I dont see why Hyperion could not expand to new Amiga brands.

Quote:

I find it interesting how Amiga can't write an OS with a similar architecture to Amiga OS now.

It is reasonable normal practise. They dont want Amiga Inc competing against them at any time if something unexpected happened (new owners for example).

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@Channel_Z & Hyperionmp

Quote:

Check out the definition of "AmigaOS 4" (under Definitions, d.), especially the last part. I think this means they can just go on and make 5 and 6 if they want to.

Yep, that's exactly what Hyperionmp said as well isn't it. For some reason when I read that exact same part moments ago, I missed the meaning.

I guess I'm still too ill to pretend I'm fit for work today. Back to bed it is...

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@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @Lou Quote: Now that Hyperion's financial standing has been upgraded, I wonder if they are considering making a play for buying Amiga Inc. outright... Perhaps that is their most ambitious project... Hyperion can not afford it. Not that Hyperion would need anything from Amiga company now. Hyperion can finish H&P at will, they can give OS 3.1 license to Acube for free and continue their own OS4 project forever. Assets in Amiga company are uninteresting and being privately held company it is going to be expensive buy.

Well, the "Amiga" name in whole and a merger with Acube would put "Amiga" back under one umbrella (hw+sw+ip).
I'm quite curious as to Hyperion's move from a VOF to CVBA.
[speculation]Perhaps now that they are a CVBA they are securing investor funding for aquisitions. [/speculation]
With money comes ambition...

Note: could someone explain what being a CVBA means to someone not from Europe such as myself?

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Regardless, this clearly shows they aren't "partners", your previous contention/accusation.

No, it doesn't. Absence of financial reimbursement from this settlement leaves the door wide open on this matter. What we are seeing is what Hyperion is getting out of this venture, we are not seeing what AI is getting out of it money wise. By the looks of the legal agreement should one or more Amiga partners go toast, Hyperion gets the IP but has to license it back to the surviving Amiga partners. To me, that suggest they are in this together, tight enough to have to use a crowbar to separate themselves.

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Dammy

Quote:

* Hyperion is the sole owner of OS4 (with the exception of OS3.1) * Hyperion can use whatever means to develop, sell and distribute OS4 * Amiga can not sell, sublicense or distribute (etc etc) OS 3.1 or any similar operating system (AmigaDE/AA Scheisse is not considered as a similar operating system here) but Amiga can distribute OS 3.1 (without modification and without UI) with things like joysticks * Amiga is still owner of Amiga OS Trademarks: * Hyperion can use AmigaOne, Amiga One, AmigaOS and Amiga OS trademarks * Hyperion can not use Amiga trademark Disparaging: * Amiga will not at any time portrait Hyperion in a negative or disparaging manner * Hyperion will not at any time portrait Amiga in a negative or disparaging manner

Are owner of OS4, but not of AmigaOS, Amiga can't use the name "AmigaOS" but own AmigaOS (3.1): it's so stupid...

Couldn't they agree on one company, working towards one goal ?

Reminds me of the RiscOS owner problems as well... Guess where is RiscOS now ?

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@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: Regardless, this clearly shows they aren't "partners", your previous contention/accusation. They are partners. Hyperion agress to defend and hold harmless Amiga from any claims from 3rd party OS4 developers, Hyperion can not portrait Amiga in a negative manner, Hyperion must defend Amiga intellectual property, trademarks and so on. They are married together.

No they have terms of a settlement to follow. If I sue someone and we settle and we both have obligations in that settlement it does not make us "partners". Sorry but no.

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@Leo
Amiga inc is no longer the owner of Amiga OS they are the owners of "The Software" which is OS3.1.
However they cannot sell it nor make similar products (only fulfill license agreements that were already in place, or use the 3.1 code IF its needed for a particular game or standalone device to work. This only if the usage of 3.1 is embedded in the app and invisible to the end user).

Hyperion on the other hand can do whatever they want with 3.1 including selling it, or licence it to third parties.

Not much to bite, Ainc. is just out of the picture as far as Amiga is concerned.

P.S.
I believe Hyperion can call their computers "AmigaOne Future" or "AmigaOne Next" or something like it...

Last edited by DAX on 15-Dec-2009 at 03:06 PM.

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@damocles

Quote:

No, it doesn't. Absence of financial reimbursement from this settlement leaves the door wide open on this matter.

If any amount of money changed hands it normally at the least would be referred to as a mutually agreed to undisclosed sum as that would have been a term in reaching the settlement.

Quote:

What we are seeing is what Hyperion is getting out of this venture, we are not seeing what AI is getting out of it money wise.

This is documentation of a settlement and the obligations of all involved parties for that settlement. No, it is not a document of only what Hyperion gets and not what AI gets. You just want to keep up your campaign.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

Yeah, I get that only you can market anything called "AmigaOS" (and AmigaOne), but the contract specifically calls the software you are entitled to develop as "Amiga OS4" In other words, you can develop AmigaOS4 however you like, but that's not the same as saying you can develop AmigaOS5, etc. You can however prevent anyone else from developing them.

You answered your own question, they can market anything using "AmigaOS" in the name. Whatever they do development-wise with OS 4, they can market it as "Amiga OS version x".

Quote:

Given your history of drawing up contracts, I'm just trying to make sure you really do have all bases covered this time. In ten years time, I'm wondering if I'll be using AmigaOS4.99999999999999999999992

And you know its severely unlikely the same party wrote this one. And unlike an initial agreement in good faith like last time, this is a pain-staking settlement document after a multi-year conflict. They can develop their OS and can use the "AmigaOS" trademark. What is it that you are nit-picking (or taking a potshot) for?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Dec-2009 at 03:17 PM.

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@DAX

Quote:

I believe Hyperion can call their computers "AmigaOne Future" or "AmigaOne Next" or something like it...

Hyperion doesn't make computers, but if they did let's hope they wouldn't call them that. AmigaOne is a terrible name. The most likely reason for the "Amiga One" and "AmigaOne" licenses is to allow Hyperion to market "AmigaOS for AmigaOne" and similar products without limitations.

Last edited by Trev on 15-Dec-2009 at 03:16 PM.

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@Rogue

Quote:

At that time there was a preliminary injunction on the table that would have forced Hyperion to deliver the source code of AmigaOS 4 (without prejudice) to Amiga Inc. We merely tried to ensure that this does not happen and that the rights to our work is secured. There was no quarry with Hyperion (or Amiga for the matter), since there was no demand on damages or anything of that nature. It was merely an attempt to secure the result of several years of work.

Hmm? Is there something different in our posts? Your case against Hyperion is/was nothing Hyperion had to worry about. That is why I wrote "there wasnt real case": no demands, no hate mails to Evert Carton.

Quote:

Not too much to ask, don't you think?

Ok, I can try now. I wrote:

Quote:

I believe it was planned step from Hyperion itself to complicate Amiga's case against Hyperion.

Right or wrong?

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Quote: In ten years time, I'm wondering if I'll be using AmigaOS4.99999999999999999999992 They can develop their OS and can use the "AmigaOS" trademark. What is it that you are nit-picking for?

I'd be perfectly satisfied with AmigaOS YYYY-MM-DD. In terms of marketing, though, they've trapped themselves. "AmigaOS 4," "OS4," et al have a lot of baggage in tow; users expect version numbers to have special significance. They could go the silly name route like Debian, OWB, etc., e.g. AmigaOS "Cocktail Weiner."

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@Trev

Quote:

Trev wrote: @fairlanefastback [quote] I'd be perfectly satisfied with AmigaOS YYYY-MM-DD. In terms of marketing, though, they've trapped themselves. "AmigaOS 4," "OS4," et al have a lot of baggage in tow; users expect version numbers to have special significance. They could go the silly name route like Debian, OWB, etc., e.g. AmigaOS "Cocktail Weiner."

They *can* use Amiga OS 5, or Amiga OS Five, or 6, or 12, of FIFTEEN, etc. Please point out where it says they can not.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Dec-2009 at 03:31 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Dec-2009 at 03:30 PM.

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@DAX

Quote:

Hyperion on the other hand can do whatever they want with 3.1 including selling it, or licence it to third parties. Not much to bite, Ainc. is just out of the picture as far as Amiga is concerned.

Was Amiga Inc ever in the picture?

Anyway, they still own AmigaOS can could sell full OS 3.0 which is almost the same to 3.1. Also, old Kickstart versions are still worth something. For pure gaming purposes Kickstart 1.2/1.3 is much better than any other versions because it is more compatible.

So, they are not out. Unfortunately.

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@itix

Quote:

Hmm? Is there something different in our posts? Your case against Hyperion is/was nothing Hyperion had to worry about. That is why I wrote "there wasnt real case": no demands, no hate mails to Evert Carton.

Yes there is. It was a demand that Hyperion not give the source to anyone, even if compelled by a court from a foreign country (the U.S. in this case), because parties outside of Hyperion (the contractor Frieden brothers) had what they feel was a superseding interest to the code. A real case does not require "hate mails".


Quote:

I believe it was planned step from Hyperion itself to complicate Amiga's case against Hyperion. Right or wrong?

That was certainly a by-product of the Friedans taking steps to protect their rights. But so what? Why would they not take steps to protect their rights anyway when there were signs they might be stepped on?

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

You answered your own question, they can market anything using "AmigaOS" in the name. Whatever they do development-wise with OS 4, they can market it as "Amiga OS version x". What is it that you are nit-picking (or taking a potshot) for?

Well the matter is settled now (see above), but my nitpick was because it seemed to be such a finely worded contract and careful in every detail but seemed to be missing a rather important and glaringly obvious condition.

Sometimes these things happen. Yes, even in carefully prepared contracts.

See http://esciencenews.com/dictionary/legal.loophole

As for my reasons, well do you want to sit through a legal challenge again in the future because of a mistake in a contract? If there is one, somebody will exploit it. You know what this place is like.

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