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      /  X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
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Geennaam 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 12:56:53
#61 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2003
Posts: 223
From: Unknown

@Caveman

G5 = 90nm SOI
Titan = 90nm CMOS
Pa6T = 65nm CMOS

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cHaOs667 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 13:26:24
#62 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2004
Posts: 706
From: Bad Homburg v.d.H., Germany

@Hypex

Quote:
I notice the PC seems to be stuck at a 3.2HGhz ceiling. Haha. They can't make the PC faster so they just add more CPU's. Cheaters!

Are you kidding me? Have you seen the latest benchmark of Intel's Core i5 or Core i7 cpu's (both are dual core cpu's)?

Even the old Core 2 Duo cpu's are much faster than any PPC970 cpu on this planet (but i agree, i havn't seen an PASemi actually yet).

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DAX 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 13:38:55
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@opi
Quote:
And if you think that there will be software that will utilize XMOS (if you can use it from OS) then you have no idea how hard is parallel programming. There are times when you don't even want to go multicore because every bit of gain you get over threading your software is lost on threads communication.

That is with C++ and multi core CPUs, Xmos clusters can be programmed using their very own XC which makes parallel programming way easier (and one of the major strenghs of Xmos solution VS others).

@Vidarh

Quote:
"only 64K..has no connection to main ram.."

If the Xcore was simply a chip that could be connected anytime via USB they wouldn't be so adamant as in:
From A-Eon website:
Quote:
We believe that with this easy gateway to the world of 'Software Defined Silicon' and a path to massive parallelism

They wouldn't write something like that if massive data crunching through multiple Xcores wasn't a clear possibility.

There have been different theories about this, and no one knows for sure how this Xcore is connected in the overall X1000 design.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 14:15:20
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@BigBentheAussie
There is NO way you can guess the maker of a new mobo from a *completely different* mobo. You will simply find to many "sort of similar" candidates, since all reasonably modern mobos will tend to be somewhat similar.

And as others have said, a PA Semi processor seems extremely unlikely due to fact that you have to have special connections (and probably lots of money) to stand any chance of getting them.

Your thread title should be changed to "X1000 mobo makers found??" (note the question marks at the end).

I did actually have that as the thread name for a few minutes. Then, when adding up the fact that

(1) the Varisys website news item about having just completed another board with XMOS, with whom they've been working for over 2 years at that point(see first post), and with

(2) Varisys being practically the only outside company actually presenting at XMOS conferences(see my second post first page)..... including the relatively well known fact that the P.A. Semi chips are still apparently used for military purposes of which Varisys is involved (see my second post first page).

Notwithstanding that,
(3) the fact that specs all match with released info, and

(4) the fact that the PA6T chip package has the same colours and shape as the corner of the chip revealed in the X mobo picture teaser....
seems to raise the likelyhood even further.

Unless some other company, suddenly comes out of nowhere, and trumps Varisys, which (1) has a known track record of releasing powerful PPC hardware, with (2) a high profile connection to XMOS, with (3) markets interested in digital signal processing applications which would be assisted by XCores..... I would not have such confidence that Varisys is the ACTUAL mobo designer.

But.... If I am wrong about Varisys, I promise to stand down as president of Amigaworld.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 10-Jan-2010 at 02:19 PM.

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Metalheart 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 14:35:05
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2741
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

@BigBentheAussie

You ROCK !!

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 16:08:15
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 4722
From: Unknown

@cHaOs667

Quote:
Even the old Core 2 Duo cpu's are much faster than any PPC970 cpu on this planet (but i agree, i havn't seen an PASemi actually yet).


970MP reach 2/3 of integer performance of Core 2 Duo E6600, FP performance is nearly the same (according to the SPEC CPU 2000 benchmark).

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Oscar 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 17:14:32
#67 ]
New Member
Joined: 6-Jan-2010
Posts: 3
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Fastest PPCs to date are the IBM Power series and PowerMac G5.
The leftover and hobbyist stuff being fused together for these new X1000 may be better than an A1, SAM, or Pegasos but aside from the CPU, the architecture surrounding the chip is costly to design and produce and it's highly unlikely the designs will surpass even older PPC hardware for either IBM or Apple.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 17:35:54
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Oscar
Quote:
nd it's highly unlikely the designs will surpass

As in:"I don't know like everybody else on this board"?

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Caveman 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 18:12:19
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@umisef

It was only meant as an example to Gebrochen. I know it is a highly unlikely setup.

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Giovanni 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 18:47:11
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 19-May-2003
Posts: 322
From: Munich, Germany

@opi

Quote:
Yup. We had countless flames on Apple-PL mailing list. Whoever got Amiga MC68060 in a signature was consider an enemy. Amiga was beating original Mac in all benchmarks (IIRC, even some old PPC601, my memory is fuzzy here, and I was never using Shapeshifter (OK, once, Secret of the Monkey Island in 256, YEAH)) and that was causing a lot of heat.


Yeah, the 68060 Amigas were running circles around the MACs in those times, even some PPC equiped ones... Ah the memories

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ne_one 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 19:07:23
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 383
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
But.... If I am wrong about Varisys, I promise to stand down as president of Amigaworld


Just a thought, but why doesn't someone contact Varisys and inquire about pricing, availability, CPU pairings and XMOS interfacing?

A sales rep should be able to provide this general information without reference to the AX1000.

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 19:08:11
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 4520
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Oscar

You seem to forget that x1000 is build around a powerfull PPC SoC.
In some aspects it is the most advanced PPC system. (Power is really not PPC and not consumer HW, even though might be more silent than G5)

As long as we do not know 100% sure what the SoC chip is, we can only speculate.
But it is possible that it has:
- its 1,5...2Ghz @ 20...30W? dualcore. (very good performance/power ratio? The best?)
- it might have L0 cache
- it has big L2 cache (2Mb)
- it has ingtegrated memory controllers (not seen in G5 macs, right?)
- it has two 64bit 1000Mhz+ buses to RAM (no need to build complex motherboard) (G5 macs had 400...667? Mhz?)
- it most likely has faster hard disk interface than any G5 mac

So, I think it can wipe the floor with dual core G5 macs, while silently loosing to quad core macs. (in integer, G5 might have more Altivec and FPU resources)

And because it's SoC, Nemo has possibility surpassing every Apple board in many performance aspects.

But let's see what it REALLY is.


btw. is there any mention of what kind of ROM drive X1000 will have?
Blueray R/W, please.


and...
also this company has PA6T using design: http://www.transtech.co.uk/

Last edited by KimmoK on 10-Jan-2010 at 07:35 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 10-Jan-2010 at 07:09 PM.

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PulsatingQuasar 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 19:32:14
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 550
From: The Netherlands, Europe

@cHaOs667

Indeed. The Core series CPU's from Intel are much more advanced than PowerPC and they aren't stuck at 3.2 GHz. Intel just chooses not to sell them higher clocked. I have a Core 2 Duo running at 3.4 GHz and a Core 2 Quad at 3.6 GHz with normal air cooling on a big cooler with low RPM speed of the fan.

Whether it's the Core 2 Duo, Quad, Core i7, etc, etc the stuff is more advanced and produces more power per clock than PowerPC.

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Caveman 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 19:38:40
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@KimmoK

Not to forget that it's a readily avaiable CPU,and it will bring multicore to AOS4. This opens up a possibilty to bring SMP,and better GFXcards to AOS4,and much more,since it's a more up to date MB.


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DAX 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 20:18:44
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@KimmoK
Surely AOS (even on a single core) will be much snappier than OSX on G5 (considering how snappy it is even on a 533Mhz Sam ).

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ddni 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 21:16:34
#76 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@thread.

iirc it has been stated by TrevorD that we are unlikely to have seen the CPU "In the wild".

So the question is, how common is the PA6T in the wild?

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Thom_Holwerda 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 21:39:22
#77 ]
Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2005
Posts: 98
From: Warmenhuizen

I can assure you all, with 110% certainty, that the X1000 will NOT carry a processor from PA Semi.

If it turns out it does, I will eat my socks, and post the video as proof. You may hold me to this.

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T_Power1 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 22:05:44
#78 ]
New Member
Joined: 14-Dec-2009
Posts: 5
From: Natal, South Africa

@Thom_Holwerda

Looking at all the provided info, I believe you will be enjoying a snack of socks shortly.

Cheers,
Tim

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Panthro 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 10-Jan-2010 23:10:28
#79 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-May-2006
Posts: 382
From: Unknown

@Thom_Holwerda

Quote:
You may hold me to this.


so this could be my boot screen on my X1000 when it comes out, yes?

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opi 
Re: X1000 mobo makers found!! (+ PPC on a x86 PCI slot)
Posted on 11-Jan-2010 0:47:10
#80 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@DAX

Quote:
Surely AOS (even on a single core) will be much snappier than OSX on G5


Snappier at what? Opening windows? People use OS to run applications. Applications on AmigaOS does not speed up by magic of OS. AmigaOS does not provide features on par with OS X, so while you may have your boot time shorter (by seconds) and you have more "unused memory" (where unused is wasted) it won't run anything faster.

I can strip Windows or Linux and run it on PIII class CPU, and then put full blown Windows 7 and Ubuntu with everything on on Core Duo. Guess what system will be faster at movie playing or applying filters in GIMP.

Featureless is not "fast", it's just that, featureless.

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