@all
The First thing I do is install King-Con,

@Daedalus

Ed is not useful for programming or scripting because it does not support word warping, instead it breaks lines.

Notepad on the other hand displays line numbers and support word wrapping the GUI is simple but does what it needs too, its not a professorial tool, but simple one.

For project this large, a cross compiler environment under Linux or windows (cygwin) is most likely the best please to configure and compile a application this large because of lack of shell commands needed for configuring the makefiles.

Notepad++ for windows.
NetBeans for windows.

is maybe better for the job.

@Blitt

AmiCygwin is most likely the best target platform for a initial / basic port, because X11 is the only graphic interface under AmigaOS whit support for Linux widgets (GTK/GDK).

Quote:

Is there a right or a wrong location? I thought the SDK installer gives a default location that works just fine?

Its clear that he does not know about abstract volumes like Amiga uses, (assigns), I think he has the mind set of a Linux user, whit absolute paths, and linked directories and files.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-May-2010 at 06:04 PM.

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@opi
@all

Quote:

Quote: If you want to help organise such an effort... I would be willing to contribute if someone will have mental strength to edit my English. I sucks at organizing things.

What about using this guy´s experience with AOS as a starting point? Maybe having a wiki page were those able to suggest and help him with his problems can write and someone could organize the parts? Also including links for the "appropiate" software and guides to download for "expert newbies".

Last edited by emeck on 12-May-2010 at 06:14 PM.

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PowerBook 5.2 MorphOS 3.15
PowerBook 5.8 MorphOS 3.15
Amiga 1200 BPPC/BVision AOS4.1 FE

@emeck

Quote:

What about using this guy´s experience with AOS as a starting point?

That's what I referred to in thread title. This might be a case study in what other developers needs/struggle with.

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@opi

I see. Good then. You and many other people here can give very useful feedback for him.

Anyone up to the task of starting it? I´m not programmer and have no experience with wiki.

_________________
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PowerBook 5.8 MorphOS 3.15
Amiga 1200 BPPC/BVision AOS4.1 FE

@ChrisH

Quote:

The problem is that there aren't enough real newbies (vs ex-Amigans) to make such a documentation effort worth-while yet, although it's obviously going to need to be tackled at some point.

I think the point is that the lack of such documentation is a barrier to anyone interested in software development for the Amiga.

Opi's suggestion is an excellent one. There should be living documentation for people coming from the other major platforms that provides essential information, and FAQs.

I'm also surprised there isn't an open source collection of helper functions and classes that wrap up AmigaOS calls so that developers could implement code using Windows, MacOS and Linux conventions. This would increase the comfort level significantly and speed up the porting process.

@ne_one Quote:

I'm also surprised there isn't an open source collection of helper functions and classes that wrap up AmigaOS calls so that developers could implement code using ... Linux conventions. This would increase the comfort level significantly and speed up the porting process.

AmiCygnix???

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@opi

I agree that AmigaOS might not be easy for a person totally new to the system but I wouldn't call it un-intuitive. Today everyone just expects things to behave like in windows (more or less) and even Linux is looking that way (for the end-user).

For developers I think there's things missing in AmigaOS like powerful Shell etc.

Quote:

That is why "mega-ultra-just-add-water" pack seems to be good idea to me.

But its so boring when everything just works out the box

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@ChrisH

Quote:

AmiCygnix???

That's not a wrapper. That's a X11 environment. It serves same purpose as Geek Gadget do, providing POSIX and UNIX stuff for your Amiga. If configuration script relay on sed, awk, grep and wc you'll be able to run it because all popular user space tools are at your disposal. X11 server gives you option to draw bitmaps using X11 libraries, and X11 libraries are "low level" on *NIX and being utilized by high level toolkits.

I have tiny X11 server installed on my friend computer under Windows, that does not wrap any method or functions, but it lets me to use SSH X-forwarding feature because X11 is network transparent (I can start GIMP on my home computer and X11 will forward it to my X11 session at friends home).

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@Troels

Quote:

I wouldn't call it un-intuitive

I would not either. Intuitiveness is mostly marketing term. There is some degree where you can claim that solution A is better than B but at the end of the day you'll need to learn you your way around OS.

I would say that AmigaOS is as un-intutitive for skilled Linux user as Linux is for skilled AmigaOS user. We have WIMP metaphor and that is understandable but when you try to fiddle with OS guts you're in for a hard ride.

My point was: AmigaOS needs to attract developers so AmigaOS needs to comfort to it's needs to the point when they will feel a little bit cared of.

Quote:

For developers I think there's things missing in AmigaOS like powerful Shell etc.

That's one thing I would be missing to the point of dropping any work. But I'm that kind of guy.

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@ne_one

...I suppose he doesn't (and can't, of course) know UtilityBase - it would help also...

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@emeck

Quote:

Anyone up to the task of starting it? I´m not programmer and have no experience with wiki.

I have a server that I could set up a wiki on if there's interest. I'd also be happy to help read through and revise things (and test the various advice - I'm still coming to terms with the Amiga platform again :) )

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Wiki for new/returning Amiga users - Projects: ACE basic compiler / FrexxEd / Git

@kas1e

I understand the thought about bash not being the fanciest thing on earth. If it's not just about functionality and what you're used to, OK, the shell window is pretty darn basic. I'd love to see something much like Konsole with tabs and such brought to AmigaOS. I love the Konsole window.

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@opi

Quote:

I would be willing to contribute if someone will have mental strength to edit my English. I sucks at organizing things.

Work has begun on putting together a guide to programming under OS4. It's aimed at those who have a bit of experience with C programming, but not much up-to-date experience on OS4.

If you wanted to contribute a section on AmigaOS "quirks" for those absolutely new to AOS, I'd be happy to include it and have any bits that are unique to OS4 (rather than 3.x) updated/added.

pm me if interested

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@opi

Quote:

How well does Vim work on con:? Does it do all the fancy stuff like :vopen, :colorscheme and so on?

I don't know what those are. For the text editing I've done in OS4 Vim, typing C code and Makefiles (I've never used any fancy colorscheming or other "help", my shell at work is plain green text on black background). Long ago I'd done more advanced Viming, but have long forgotten. I may be weird, but I never really liked context coloring, it was more distracting to me than helpful. No idea how well or poor such things come out on our port of Vim.

I'd love to get into Eclipse.

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@ChrisH

I think the idea behind the wrapper comment is more like what WxWidgets intends to be. More of a GTK to Reaction direct wrapper, rather than go through a large system like X11. Heck, there's not even a bounty for GTK. I'd like others to post some of this stuff so I'm not spamming the site alone. :)

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@yoodoo2
Quote:

Work has begun on putting together a guide to programming under OS4

I hope you find a way to contact this guy to get some input.

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@billt

I presume you mean the OO4Kids guy, rather than Opi ;)

But yes, I know where he is...

Last edited by yoodoo2 on 12-May-2010 at 08:27 PM.

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@opi

Given the time of your post you created the thread, the availability of this specific information across international amigish fora, the fact that you don't mention the original source and your past attitude, I conlude that you were voyuering at amigans.net.

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@marko

Quote:

marko wrote: IMHO, I think these .info files should be split so that the tooltypes gets its own file so that things gets easier, like: MyApp MyApp.icons MyApp.prefs Or with other extension names, f. ex: MyApp MyApp.icon MyApp.config Instead of having both the tooltypes (configuration) and the icons in the same .info file as: MyApp MyApp.info

No. Please no split up. One file for meta information and one for the actual binary holds some logic and is not a total mess of files (having two meta information files just adds files).
.info files could get a bit more hidden to the user by default.

_________________
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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@opi

I understand your point about how AmigaOS could be tricky and unfamiliar for a newcomer, but I would imagine a long time Windows user would find aspects of OS X odd at first.

Personally I get frustrated sometimes using Ubuntu, being a relative newcomer and having used OS X a lot. I'm more comfortable with AOS than either of the aforementioned because I have more know how and experience.

I guess the OO4K developer mentioned would be used to Linux and I can see why it might take a while to get to grips with AOS. If it didn't take some period of adjustment then surely AOS would be just more of the same, in that case what would be the point in AOS existing at all?

Surely people will be willing to go through a period of adjustment and of 'getting use to a new way of doing things' if they can see a longer term benefit and end result is worth the effort?