@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @Lou Not sure if I agree. The touch-screen alone works well for some deeper genres like strategy and adventure games, as long as they've been designed with that in mind. I've enjoyed The Settlers, Civ, a few Advance Wars clones and thing like that, although they work better with the iPad screen. Arcade controls are where it becomes iffy. The problem arises if you need to your fingers to be on the controls all the time and the controls are reaction/twitch based. Prime example - Geometry Wars is rubbish on the Phone/iPad compared to the consoles. You can't take your fingers off the screen, and after a while your fingers stop slipping around properly, making it harder to move the ship as you want. Being the type of game it is, that invariably leads to losing lives unfairly. Which defeats the object of the game... It's a shame because the 'floating' d-pad is a neat solution that works. Driving games with depth, like Real Racing, work very well. RPG games which require movement, with only shorter bursts of reaction-based play work ok. Bethesda are apparently bringing a game to the iPhone, and I think their style suits the iPhone. I'm not big into FPS so I can't say how well they've solved the problem. Some games do it very well if they provide big areas for the buttons, others are just to finicky. I agree, though, that some genres just need physical buttons and I would dearly love a standard to emerge for clip-on console controls for the iPhone. Chris

I'm really not sure why someone doesn't release a bluetooth 'gamepad' that can be supported by any phone. We got bluetooth head sets...what's the problem?

Both Wii and PS3 controllers use bluetooth to communicate with their consoles. Clearly that speaks for the technology. Until that happens, gaming will always have the physical limitations of the phone. The iPad is not a phone, it's a big iPod. They could have put some buttons on that - but failed. Apple still doesn't get it. They still ship Macs with a 1-button mouse. I mean - REALLY!?!?!!??!?!?!?!

Nintendo followed the Apple philosophy of keeping things simpler with the Wii. Mac OS looks great on the outside, however it easily becomes bloated. Then when you need to get under the hood to clean it up, you really can't. With Windows, you get tools like Task Manager and RegEdit. You can fix/change things yourself if you really want to. Say what you will, I believe Windows 7 is a better product than Mac OS 10.x! It's both user-friendly and hardcore at the same time. Mac OS is just user-friendly...hard core it is not.

People who buy Macs today remind me of people who think AOL is the internet a few years back.

The Wii console may not have been hardcore, but the controller was both hard core and user-friendly at the same time. The ability to add-on things like the Nunchuk, WM+, ClassicController was epic. Revolutionary even. Before EA dumbed down Madden for the Wii, even it was more fun on the Wii ... as have been FPS games.

It took the competition almost a full generation to catch up...though I've yet to see a killer app for Move or Kinect... Nintendo's already used up all the great ideas that everyone can only immitate now...

Last edited by Lou on 23-Sep-2010 at 12:39 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 23-Sep-2010 at 12:31 PM.

@Lou

I don't think Bluetooth is the best solution. You'd have to prop the little screen up somewhere while you play. You also lose accelerometer/gyroscope control and touch-screen that way. The Gamebone is more what I'd want:

http://www.22moo.com.au/GameBone.html

Although the lack of analogue joysticks is puzzling and disappointing. The crucial thing i want is that we have one standard. I want as many games to offer the feature as possible and a bunch of different incompatible gamepads isn't going to help.

As for Macs, I strongly disagree. Firstly, new Macs handle a second mouse-button though not with the use of separate physical buttons but click area. The Mac doesn't need RegEdit because (thankfully) it doesn't have a Registry as such. The config files are all there and hidden registry-like settings can often be set in The Terminal with "defaults write" and if you 'cd' into an app or "Show Package Contents" you can often tinker with the XML files.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Task Manager. You have full control over your processes with Unix commands like 'top', 'ps', 'kill', etc. The Activity Monitor gives you the rest of the Task Manager features you want. The Terminal is a gateway to all sorts of hardcore features in OS X and you can even use MacPorts or Fink to give you Linux-like package management. For me, the only area where Apple's prescriptive opinions make it a bit dumbed-down is the GUI (but the hardest of the hardcore think any GUI is dumbed-down..!) Still, even that can be hacked with apps that change the Aqua theme or replace the Dock or Finder with something more powerful.

Comparing to Mac to AOL is way over the top - remember the number of designers and developers who use Macs and consider their technical skills. Don't take this too harshly, but I think your lack of knowledge of Macs is at fault to be honest. Anyway, I know this is off-topic but I wanted to correct some things.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 23-Sep-2010 at 01:41 PM.

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @Lou I don't think Bluetooth is the best solution. You'd have to prop the little screen up somewhere while you play. You also lose accelerometer/gyroscope control and touch-screen that way. The Gamebone is more what I'd want: http://www.22moo.com.au/GameBone.html Although the lack of analogue joysticks is puzzling and disappointing. The crucial thing i want is that we have one standard. I want as many games to offer the feature as possible and a bunch of different incompatible gamepads isn't going to help. As for Macs, I strongly disagree. Firstly, new Macs handle a second mouse-button though not with the use of separate physical buttons but click area. The Mac doesn't need RegEdit because (thankfully) it doesn't have a Registry as such. The config files are all there and hidden registry-like settings can often be set in The Terminal with "defaults write" and if you 'cd' into an app or "Show Package Contents" you can often tinker with the XML files. I'm not sure what you mean by the Task Manager. You have full control over your processes with Unix commands like 'top', 'ps', 'kill', etc. The Activity Monitor gives you the rest of the Task Manager features you want. The Terminal is a gateway to all sorts of hardcore features in OS X and you can even use MacPorts or Fink to give you Linux-like package management. For me, the only area where Apple's prescriptive opinions make it a bit dumbed-down is the GUI (but the hardest of the hardcore think any GUI is dumbed-down..!) Still, even that can be hacked with apps that change the Aqua theme or replace the Dock or Finder with something more powerful. Comparing to Mac to AOL is way over the top - remember the number of designers and developers who use Macs and consider their technical skills. Don't take this too harshly, but I think your lack of knowledge of Macs is at fault to be honest. Anyway, I know this is off-topic but I wanted to correct some things. Chris

Mac stuff aside... (none of it sounds user-friendly which is my point...)

Bluetooth controllers are proven tech. It could be a grip controller with a thumbstick and d-pad and a couple of trigger buttons so you can still hold the mobile device in your other hand for tilt/gyro functionality ... also we know that rumble and tilt+gyro functionality can also be included in this "grip-stick" controller. Look at the Wii Nunchuk or Move's auxillary controller for inspiration there. What I am saying is all Apple has to do is add support for bluetooth input devices other than headsets...

PC's can already use Wii controllers if they run a bluetooth stack and GlovePie software (interestly originally designed for the Mac).

Last edited by Lou on 23-Sep-2010 at 02:25 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

I'm really not sure why someone doesn't release a bluetooth 'gamepad' that can be supported by any phone. We got bluetooth head sets...what's the problem?

On such as small platform I'd prefer the controls on the device itself. I might prefer a case that one must plug the phone into and gives one joystix. As for bluetooth do any of the phone OSes have more bluetooth controls than a headset?

Quote:

Mac OS looks great on the outside, however it easily becomes bloated

It does and it can be a pain to clean up. Though better than leaving all the Finder poops of the past. And at least there's a shell now so power users have something to dig under the hood.

Quote:

when you need to get under the hood to clean it up, you really can't. With Windows, you get tools like Task Manager and RegEdit. You can fix/change things yourself if you really want to.

I'm running 10.4 and there's an Activity Monitor in the Accessories drawer. It's essentially the Task Manager. While the Mac's roots are BSD they broke various Unix things. For example, user configuration areas aren't the same as BSD. Various other things do work. One can open a shell and issue the unix ps command.

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Say what you will, I believe Windows 7 is a better product than Mac OS 10.x

I agree.

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It took the competition almost a full generation to catch up...though I've yet to see a killer app for Move or Kinect... Nintendo's already used up all the great ideas that everyone can only immitate now...

I agree mostly. I can't see a Move killer app that the Wii can't do. The one thing Kinect does better and (not sure if it's killer app yet since the Kinect isn't here for me to try) is dance and exercise games. In both cases the move should (in theory) be able to track the user's form better. This is because it can track the positions of joints in 3D space. This should allow the games to give better feedback on how to improve your form. In return for corrections the person would receive not only a higher score but an improved fitness ability.

@Lou

But what is the advantage of having a separate controller? I can only see disadvantages. Using the dock connector is also proven technology - and not too disimilar from adding the Motion Plus or Nunchuck to the Wiimote.

I also like that the dock connection means the GameBone can include a supplementary battery pack and power-use becomes a positive instead of a negative.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 23-Sep-2010 at 04:59 PM.

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote: @Lou But what is the advantage of having a separate controller? I can only see disadvantages. Using the dock connector is also proven technology - and not too disimilar from adding the Motion Plus or Nunchuck to the Wiimote. I also like that the dock connection means the GameBone can include a supplementary battery pack and power-use becomes a positive instead of a negative. Chris

The negatives are the sheer size of that monstrocity. It's weight another. That's something you leave at home, not take on the road for daily/random use. ... Oh and it doesn't exactly fit around the iPad, does it... That's another + for bluetooth.

I have a 360 again! I had some holiday money left over, so I treated myself!

I went for a bundle with 3 old-ish games - I chose Mass Effect 2, Fable 2 and Halo 3. I also picked up Red Dead Redemption half-price. I possibly could've shopped around more, but I have a stinking cold and just wanted to get back home!

The hardware's pretty attractive looking. For some reason, when placed next to the 360 it doesn't seem much smaller, but when put into the TV cabinet it looks much more petite.

I also love the quietness! I'd heard comments that when the DVD drive spins up it's just as noisy as the old model, but I was pleased that my drive at least is whisper quiet.

Other than that, it's the same 360 I liked before. It's still a great console and a terrible convergence device. No browser and no UK TV except Sky (I'm not paying money to Murdoch). Looks like a Boxee Box might be on the cards for Christmas...

Chris

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

A point to add on the previous disk-scratching discussion. When I got my 360S there was a sticker over the DVD drive saying "Do not move console with disc in tray". You can't access the DVD drive without removing that sticker. I think that makes it pretty clear - no need to RTFM!

--

I spent the weekend sneezing and playing back some of my old 360 games like Alien Breed. Haven't had chance to play the new games yet.

Has anyone tried Alien Breed 2? Apparently it's got much the same strengths and weaknesses, but is overall a better game. I'm enjoying Alien Breed, but perhaps 3 will be the classic we were hoping for.

Chris

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/new-motion-plus-wii-remote

Finally it seems Wii Remote Plus (RVL-037) that integrate WiiMotion Plus with the original remote are coming into the wild.

This is a value-add for Nintendo.

@Lou

One step closer to the end of physical media. US sees digital downloads for games exceeding physical media sales. Of course a true Blu-Ray sized 50GB game would be too long to download over present connection sizes to the home. Though I expect that to improve. For example, China recently showed a 700Mbps DSL prototype. The vast majority of games are under 9GB which fit fine on a DVD.

@BrianK

Quote:

The two services have their differences and their similarities. Xbox Gold may not provide free games. It has provided the first opportunity at game on-adds and demos.

"Today (15th September) brings the long-awaited release of the FIFA 11 demo for Xbox 360 (Gold Members), PS3 and PC gamers."

http://www.soccergaming.com/fifa/1315/fifa-11-demo-released/

So XBox live silver users had to wait one week extra compared to everyone else. Sounds like a 'fantastic' service there...

@BrianK

MikeB said:
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Looks OK, but for Sonic fans I would rather recommend Sonic 4 which is being released later this year

BrianK said:
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$5 or $59.95? Does Sonic 4 have more than 10x the entertainment?

MikeB said:
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I didn't know the pricing was revealed, do you have a source for that? Personally I think Sonic 4 will be more appealing to Sonic fans.

BrainK said:
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Egads MikeB. Way to miss the forest by staring at a single tree. I'll buy you Sonic if it's $5. You buy it for me if it's not. Sounds fair to me.

Pricing has just been announced, it's $9.99 for the PSN or 1200 points ($15.00) on XBox Live:

http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/09/28/sonic-4-xbox-360-ps3-will-release-date-and-price-confirmed/

@Lou

Playstation Move is indeed very simple to re-calibrate, takes just ~2 seconds for adjusted lighting. For Wii-like stuff calibration isn't needed, for example you can use it as a pointing device in the XMB by holding the trigger without calibration.

Also every review out there seems to re-affirm my statement that Move is more accurate than the Wii (including with Motion Plus addon). I thought you said you were such an expert?

Also some weeks ago you stated you didn't report on Japan hardware sales anymore starting when the PS3 outsold the Wii as you thought winning 1 week wasn't important as it was solely due to the release of a popular PS3 title. Now many weeks later the PS3 has been outselling the Wii in Japan week after week, outsold the Wii's YTD totals and last week increased even further in sales.

@Lou

UK sales of Nintendo's Wii and DS platforms are down 40% from last year
http://spong.com/article/22618/UK-Nintendo-Wii-DS-Sales-Down-40pc

Time to graduate to a Super Wii HD Deluxe aka Playstation Move? It also happens to double as a 3D Blu-Ray player and so much more.

@MikeB

Quote:

Pricing has just been announced, it's $9.99 for the PSN or 1200 points ($15.00) on XBox Live:

Slight correction. It's $14.99 on the PSN too. Perhaps the news source got confused with the £9.99? Both consoles play the game in 1080p.

Any ideas on how many parts this game will be? Originally it was supposed to be Part 1 in August and Part2 in Sept. I've seen rumors what is coming is more akin to part 1.5? Afterall the game is supposedly episodic. Seems $15 is the taste of the first part of the full game.

Last edited by BrianK on 28-Sep-2010 at 05:17 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Playstation Move is indeed very simple to re-calibrate, takes just ~2 seconds for adjusted lighting. For Wii-like stuff calibration isn't needed, for example you can use it as a pointing device in the XMB by holding the trigger without calibration. [quote] Also every review out there seems to re-affirm my statement that Move is more accurate than the Wii (including with Motion Plus addon). I thought you said you were such an expert?

Every review I've read says the same thing but not in what way. The WiiRemote design is a 1024x768 grid above or below the sensor bar. The PS3 uses a spacial calibration since it's 640x480 camera needs to approxomate a 1080p screen. Where as the Move uses cpu processing power the figure out where it is, the WiiRemote ITSELF figures out where it is and simply reports back an x,y on the screen for pointer positioning using NO CPU power. Nintendo could use CPU power and do the same ANNOYING calibration. "Motions" are not used at all to figure out where onscreen the WiiRemote if pointing...nor are gyros or accelerometers.

By more accurate, you have yet to define anything. A PS3 screen is 1920x1080(potentially) so yes, the end result when compared to the Wii's 480p screen of a pointer on the screen is that the PS3 is "more accurate" but I fail to see how anyone can quantify that MOVE is more accurate when you have yet to display techincal details as clearly as: http://invensense.com/mems/gaming.html

Quote:

Also some weeks ago you stated you didn't report on Japan hardware sales anymore starting when the PS3 outsold the Wii as you thought winning 1 week wasn't important as it was solely due to the release of a popular PS3 title. Now many weeks later the PS3 has been outselling the Wii in Japan week after week, outsold the Wii's YTD totals and last week increased even further in sales.

Yes, PS3 has pulled a miniscule edge year to date but Wii sales always slump until the holidays. PS3 needs to outsell the Wii by a yearly 7-digit sales, not 5-digit in order to even catch up.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation-Move-Teardown/3594/2 Appears to me to be parts from what are often used in cellphones. Of course w/o the cellular ability. Which is good as these items fall from popularity hopefully the cost of the Move will become low enough that future PS3s will simply include one, like it's little SD brother Wii.

Yes, Sony used cheap parts, where as Nintendo licensed the best accelerometer tech in the industry.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou UK sales of Nintendo's Wii and DS platforms are down 40% from last year http://spong.com/article/22618/UK-Nintendo-Wii-DS-Sales-Down-40pc Time to graduate to a Super Wii HD Deluxe aka Playstation Move? It also happens to double as a 3D Blu-Ray player and so much more.

Why would someone owning a DS want to upgrade to a console? They won't. They are waiting for the 3DS which displays 3D without glasses...if you recall.

When you hit the sales #'s of what those 2 platforms have hit, did you really expect to see them sustained? I find your post as simply trollbait.

@Lou

Quote:

Yes, Sony used cheap parts, where as Nintendo licensed the best accelerometer tech in the industry.

Doesn't surprise me. Sony has to nickle and dime everything to in hopes of making any profit this generation.

@MikeB

Killzone3 and Move Demo Seems a tad laggy but not too bad. Also in the demo is Matchmaking. It appears there are 2 lists for matchmaking one for users using the normal controller and one for users using the Move. I hope the Move lag isn't so bad that it splits the online play in 1/2 like that. This would result in some headaches as some friends already stated they didn't want the Move. I hope I can still play KZ3 with them.