@BrianK

Quote:

MikeB, seriously, have you not learned that two wrongs do not make a right?

Of course, but Lou takes this approach too often and usually totally uncalled for.

I especially dislike people who claim others to be "liars" without providing evidence. Calling such people simple minded nothing to be upset about. Actually I find it pretty normal and justified after an uncalled for personal attack.

Quote:

Lou's physical characteristic of intelligence

Not exactly what I said. I said someone simple minded may come to such conclusions, I didn't say he is simple minded. He may also be dishonest, trying to troll or speaks his mouth without thinking (impulsive behaviour).

Quote:

Which goes to my statement that we don't actually know what's going on here. We're trying to compare the two and you appear to agree we're missing data to do that comparison with.

For this year, but not for last year. And we do have the Sony data for this year, up 40%. Then we are also free to speculate why Microsoft wouldn't release figures while in the past the always have. Since the beginning they have always touted their misleading attach rate figures (which are lower taking equal timeframes for the differen regions).

Quote:

Sony receives licensing fees for each Blu-Ray sold. In addition, Sony owns a number of movie studios.

Sony is mainly the leader of a huge pack of companies all supporting Blu-Ray disc. Other companies receive royalties as well and Sony does not own all movie studios supporting Blu-Ray and 3D Blu-Ray.

A minority percentage of royalties go to Sony. But Sony followed by Panasonic, Pioneer and Warner are the top 4 IP owners.

Quote:

If you return your console you get 3 more years

The 360 launched in 2005, your RROD warranty will not get extended beyond 2008 according to my sources. And warranty on non-RROD issues were never extended.

Newly bought 360s don't have extended warranty at all. I know some still think when you buy a new 360 you get 3 years warranty on everything.

But Microsoft is not to blame for that IMO, IMO it are the fanboys who joined threads stating: "Buy a 360 and you get 3 years warranty!!!! Isn't Microsoft great?!"

Quote:

That way it's easy to declare PS3 as a victor even though the Wii is kicking it's butt. Though interesting that Sony does think by generations and declares the PS3 will win out in the end.

To Sony the PS3 is technically much more interesting for obvious reasons, I don't think they would ever have want ed to trade with Nintendo (well maybe some pencilnecks in the financial department, but none of the visionaries).

With regard to "butt-kicking" I look at it differently. If a luxury car model sells less units than a Fiat, I wouldn't per se claim Fiat is kicking the ass of luxury car makers.

And yes, I also think for the long run the PS3 has an excellent chance to outsell the Wii.

Quote:

There are a few where it wins out, very few. Understand?

No, PS3 versions outsell the 360 versions absolutely and relatively in lots of cases, at this point probably in the vast majority of cases. This bodes well for when the PS3 installbase overtakes the 360.

Didn't you claim PS3 exclusives usually sell less than XBox 360 exclusives and that the amount of exclusives are about the same? Some simple reasoning would then be for the PS3 to sell more software with a smaller installbase, PS3 versions of games must be selling by the truckloads in comparison. Or not?

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Please rise your level of discourse where you can disagree with someone in a respective manner. No one is insulting you and I ask you not to insult others. There you go again Brian... Lou:"So basically what you say is a lie." Why the hell do you do this again Brian? Pretending to ride a white horse, the knight of justice (but really behaving like a two faced snake).

you showed opinions and I showed real #'s that say otherwise...
a spade is a spade

Quote:

I provided sources on multiple occasions. I meant if you don't think it through then maybe you may think like that. Quote: Sony predicted their software sales rates would be flat, around 115Million, even as their console sales increase. that means people are buying less titles if the installed base goes up and the software sales remain flat. Quote: As stated before Sony announced software sales for the previous quarter were up 40% compared to last year. Are you sure you aren't talking about a Microsoft comment or something? This quarter Gran Turismo 5 is released and Sony actually said therefore they expect the current trend to continue. "their" as in Sony-made software or all software for the PS3? Quote: [quote]Overall from your data we don't 'know' what's going on right now. As stated Microsoft stopped reporting on their software sales, but Sony has not.

but lack of reporting doesn't mean you can assume anything...

Quote:

Quote: Old hat Mike. A problem that happened 3+ years ago. As you know the extended RROD repair period has ended and as sources say all older XBox 360 models will fail prematurely. So it may well be becoming more relevant in terms of software sales. Buying a replacement console must not per se mean the user will buy twice as much software than he did before. Understand?

This is why I say PS3 userbase may be higher than 360 yet software still sells better on the 360. I cited PS2 as not having a 120M userbase for quality reasons also. Software sales of PS2 software only supported an active userbase of 40M. This is also why I said Wii software sales and "active" userbase has already exceeded PS2.
:/

Quote:

Quote: In the recent past you've made over reaching conclusions about microsoft's statements. You stated Microsoft used to talk attach rate and now doesn't and the reason is they're at a normal rate. There was no such conclusion. I stated the PS3 software outsold 360 software last year despite a bigger installbase at the time for the 360. IMO this is surprising and I speculated on why this may be the case. That's not the same as coming to premature conclusions, I leave that to you and Lou.

:rotflmao

Quote:

Quote: There's been a handful of cross titles that sold more on the PS3, period. Really a lot relatively speaking (taking into account installbase differences) and quite a few absolutely.

Oh "relative" now, eh? Still no numbers.
When you look at how many people had to "rebuy" consoles, by your logic above, 360 outsells PS3.

@MikeB

Quote:

A minority percentage of royalties go to Sony

Glad you agree. So don't forget any Blu-Ray out there is a win for Sony. Blu-Ray in the PS3 was less about games and more about making money off of movies. In fact being most games are still under 9GB (DVD size) saying Blu-Ray was nothing about games is close enough to true.

Quote:

The 360 launched in 2005, your RROD warranty will not get extended beyond 2008 according to my sources.

Warranties don't run off of launch dates. At least in the US warranties run from purchase date. If you buy an original 360 today you still receive a 3 year RRoD warranty.

Not sure about the new 360 S. I've heard rumors that it doesn't come with one but I haven't seen in print. If it meets or exceeds the industry standards and RRoD is fixed it would make sense that the RROD 3 year has been withdrawn for those. That doesn't mean it's withdrawn for all consoles.

Quote:

And warranty on non-RROD issues were never extended.

Kind of as there's an E74 error which has 3 years and doesn't produce 3 red rings and is covered. Though other problems weren't but other then some basic complaints around the internet I've yet to see any problem that was out of alignment with the industry in general. If there is I recommend those people band together in a class action lawsuit. (NOTE: There was some disc scratching problems but the evidence indicates it was a bad run of drives at best and not systemic such as the RRoD was.)

Quote:

I know some still think when you buy a new 360 you get 3 years warranty on everything.

Yeah I know it's hard to sometimes to get people to read or actually understand information.

Quote:

but none of the visionaries

Which were promptly sacked BTW. Or I might more properly say -- allowed to retired.

Quote:

I also think for the long run the PS3 has an excellent chance to outsell the Wii.

You might want to add 'very' in front of long there. I think we'll see Microsoft and Nintendo next gen consoles making an impact by that time.

Quote:

Didn't you claim PS3 exclusives usually sell less than XBox 360 exclusives and that the amount of exclusives are about the same?

I don't think that was me. At present the 360 has about 1200 games. Not sure the PS3 count perhaps you can let us know, but it's far far less. I believe in that sense the 360 has a lot more exclusives.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: We know the Madden series also sells better on 360. Madden is really a USA targeting game, outside of the US almost nobody seems to care. It happens that the 360 has a big installbase advantage for the USA. Launch sales for Madden 10: XBox 360 928k PS3 643k PS2 425K The only home console version which flopped was the Wii version with 67k (especially considering installbase). At the end of 2009 the 360 had about an installbase of 18 million in the USA. The PS3 had an installbase of about 11 million. So about 63% more 360s last year in the USA. Madden sold about 44% more copies on the XBox 360 than on the PS3. Understand? I don't understand why this is so hard for you?

But are you taking into account RRoD 360's?

Also, Madden sales have been on the decline since 2007. 3 prior versions sold between 1.5 and 2M each. The fact that this one didn't sell 1M should tell you it's a bad example. The game was blasted before it was even released due to the new audible system. They've never sold 1M on PS3 though. So if you look at the franchise as a whole, like I did when I said "Madden" and not "Madden 10", you'll see it looks pretty bad.

Understand? I don't understand why this is so hard for you?

Last edited by Lou on 08-Dec-2010 at 08:01 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: MikeB, seriously, have you not learned that two wrongs do not make a right? Of course, but Lou takes this approach too often and usually totally uncalled for. I especially dislike people who claim others to be "liars" without providing evidence. Calling such people simple minded nothing to be upset about. Actually I find it pretty normal and justified after an uncalled for personal attack. Quote: Lou's physical characteristic of intelligence Not exactly what I said. I said someone simple minded may come to such conclusions, I didn't say he is simple minded. He may also be dishonest, trying to troll or speaks his mouth without thinking (impulsive behaviour).

I did provide evidence yet you simply speculated. In Dec 2009, MS was 358, in June 2010, Sony was 315. That's a large gap...yet you claim as if to be fact that the PS3 platform moves more software. You keep touting this 1 year head start. You keep dogging MS for RRoD, if anything, MS had a tainted start because of RRoD. Once they admitted the problem and added the warranty, sales actually picked up. It might as well have been no head start at all. Taking RRoD into account, all your "speculations" as off because 44M sold by Microsoft is not 44M working consoles. Yet Sony has higher quality and still less in sales.

Yet I am the one labelled with questionable intelligence... You can't pick and choose which facts to ignore. You either stand behind all your statements or your merit will be called into question...as it constantly is.

Quote:

Quote: There are a few where it wins out, very few. Understand? No, PS3 versions outsell the 360 versions absolutely and relatively in lots of cases, at this point probably in the vast majority of cases. This bodes well for when the PS3 installbase overtakes the 360.

Yet you still can't provide examples...
If you do, you'll find garbage titles that didn't break 1M copies hence no one cares.

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (5.09 million)[97]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.8 million approximately; 3.531 million in the US,[25][26][27][28] 244.578 and 25.268 The Best in Japan,[119] at least 1 million in UK)[30]
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (3.5 million)[120]
MotorStorm (3.31 million)[121]
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (3 million shipped as of December 31, 2009;[122] 1.97 million approximately; 1.076 million in the US,[123] 706,461 in Japan,[119] 200,000 in UK)[74]
LittleBigPlanet (3 million)[124]
Final Fantasy XIII (2.89 million approximately: 1.85 million in Japan, 140,000 in other Asian countries,[125] 828,200 in US,[126] 100,000 in UK)[20]
Grand Theft Auto IV (2.73 million approximately: 1.89 million in US,[33] 211,240 and 37.306 The Best in Japan,[127] 600,000 in UK)[37]
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2.6 million)[128][129]
Resistance: Fall of Man (2.5 million)[130]
Killzone 2 (2 million)[131]
inFamous ("nearly" 2 million)[132]
Resident Evil 5 (1.62 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[133] 520,564 and 258,961 Gold Edition in Japan,[119] 200,000 in UK,[23] 62,040 in France)[134]
Heavenly Sword (1.5 million)[135]
Heavy Rain (1.5 million)[136]
God of War III (1.46 million approximately; 1.28 million in the US,[126][137] 100,000 in UK,[20] 88,956 in Japan)[119]
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (1.455 million approximately; 584,000 in the US,[138][139] 122,019 regular and 149,028 The Best in Japan,[119] 600,000 in UK)[37]
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (1.25 million)[140]
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift (1 million)[141]
Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time (1 million)[142]

I count maybe 6 out of 20 as cross-platform in the top 20 best selling titles for PS3.
What was your evidence again?

Exclusives have been the lifeblood of the PS-family as a whole. This gen, PS lost many big exclusives and we saw it's fall from #1. Deny that and you deny that the sun will rise tomorrow...and yes you'd be a liar!

The funny thing about Resident Evil 5 is that you take that out (258,961) and it did sell better on the 360 as well. There was no Gold Edition for the 360 with motion control addons...

Last edited by Lou on 08-Dec-2010 at 09:31 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Warranties don't run off of launch dates. At least in the US warranties run from purchase date.

Of course, but you bought a launch console didn't you?

I don't think it's so great at all, free repairs (being without a console) for something which shouldn't be so failure prone to begin with.

I also don't want to give Microsoft credit for this approach as they repeatably claimed there were no issues up to the point of class action lawsuits against them for doing nothing. I think that's an entirely reasonable and defendable stand on the issue.

Quote:

Not sure about the new 360 S

It has standard warranty. Sadly many people don't know this like you, quite a few think not only they have 3 years warranty, but that this covering everything (often due to fanboy crap floating around on forums and Microsoft not highlighting this enough for obvious reasons).

Quote:

Kind of as there's an E74 error which has 3 years and doesn't produce 3 red rings and is covered.

But that's because E74 is RROD up to the point they changed the firmware, altered how this error is reported. No way they would have been able to get away with that, so it was re-included in the warranty extension.

Quote:

Which were promptly sacked BTW

Ken is highly regarded with Sony. He already made designs for future Playstation products. Ken is 60 years old, taking it easy at such an age is no shame at all, actually I intend to do the same. Kaz Hirai is a much younger energetic better public speaker and speaks the English language perfectly unlike Ken.

You can continue to make a big deal about this forever if you want, but it's not.

Quote:

Not sure the PS3 count perhaps you can let us know, but it's far far less.

Not really. There are some 360 launch games not many seems to care about anymore (including some games which were released for the PS2 but not for the PS3, sometimes hyped for extending the list of 360 exclusives).

Also there are many XBLA games, most of which are IMO plain crap, PS1 and NeoGeo game emulation are IMO more interesting and overall of much better quality.

@Lou

Quote:

I did provide evidence yet you simply speculated. In Dec 2009, MS was 358, in June 2010, Sony was 315. That's a large gap

No, it isn't. That's less than 1 holiday season worth of sales. The period January to June is usually considered a quiet period of game sales. The 360 had a 1 year headstart (so 1 more holiday season in Japan/USA, 2 more holiday seasons for Europe as a headstart).

Quote:

Yet you still can't provide examples..

Look up the revenue sales reports from game publishers yourself. I tell the truth and the I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. Just a few posts ago you insulted me, ignored the evidence provided to you and neglected to say you are sorry.

In any case IMO you don't need to copy&paste wikipedia in this thread, the page was linked to a few posts back.

@Lou

Quote:

Resident Evil 5 (1.62 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[133] 520,564 and 258,961 Gold Edition in Japan,[119] 200,000 in UK,[23] 62,040 in France)[134] The funny thing about Resident Evil 5 is that you take that out (258,961) and it did sell better on the 360 as well. There was no Gold Edition for the 360 with motion control addons...

No, IMO the only funny thing is you pretend those are the only countries where Resident Evil 5 was sold. For example my country isn't even accounted for in those figures.

UK + France is not the same as total European sales. Italy, Spain, the Benelux, Germany, Scandinavia, eastern Europe, etc are all strong PS3 countries/regions within Europe. Then there's also the rest of the world, which isn't insignificant.

The world is a much bigger place than you seem to think... Need a world map?

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Dec-2010 at 11:18 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: I did provide evidence yet you simply speculated. In Dec 2009, MS was 358, in June 2010, Sony was 315. That's a large gap No, it isn't. That's less than 1 holiday season worth of sales. The period January to June is usually considered a quiet period of game sales. The 360 had a 1 year headstart (so 1 more holiday season in Japan/USA, 2 more holiday seasons for Europe as a headstart).

Alot of key PS3 games even cross platform ones such as GTA4 and many you spammed us about : MSG4, KZ2 and many others are released in Q2 of every year...so I find your point there baseless.

Quote:

Quote: Yet you still can't provide examples.. Look up the revenue sales reports from game publishers yourself. I tell the truth and the I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. Just a few posts ago you insulted me, ignored the evidence provided to you and neglected to say you are sorry.

You speculate.
I counter with facts.
You say you don't need to prove anything.
I put on my rubber boots, grab a shovel and continue reading your posts.

Quote:

In any case IMO you don't need to copy&paste wikipedia in this thread, the page was linked to a few posts back.

Well, clearly you ignored the link. I thought direct pasting might help your comprehension of the data...clearly I was wrong.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: Resident Evil 5 (1.62 million approximately: 585,000 in US,[133] 520,564 and 258,961 Gold Edition in Japan,[119] 200,000 in UK,[23] 62,040 in France)[134] The funny thing about Resident Evil 5 is that you take that out (258,961) and it did sell better on the 360 as well. There was no Gold Edition for the 360 with motion control addons... No, IMO the only funny thing is you pretend those are the only countries where Resident Evil 5 was sold. For example my country isn't even accounted for in those figures. UK + France is not the same as total European sales. Italy, Spain, the Benelux, Germany, Scandinavia, eastern Europe, etc are all strong PS3 countries/regions within Europe. Then there's also the rest of the world, which isn't insignificant. The world is a much bigger place than you seem to think... Need a world map?

The world is big but some markets are just so much bigger than others that the smaller ones simply don't matter. Again, you counter to win small skirmishes when the war has taken another direction. UK and France are the biggest markets, Spain and Germany there after then maybe Italy. Your present country - who knows/cares (other than you).

Look at Australia. When a console achieves 100,000 in sales, it's an achievement there. How can you compare that to the millions in other markets. Please get real.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Dec-2010 at 12:26 AM.

@MikeB

Look the 360 beat the PS3 again... One can run an Amiga 360

@MikeB

Quote:

Of course, but you bought a launch console didn't you? I don't think it's so great at all, free repairs (being without a console) for something which shouldn't be so failure prone to begin with.

When setting the watch note the year is 2010. But if you want to play this again. Yes the 360 was broke, got an extended warranty and got fixed. The PS3 pricing was broke, got lowered, and lost functionality. It's a broken record we all know too well. Lucky for Sony the 360 had issues at about the right time. Else the PS3 wouldn't even be running for 2nd.

Quote:

It has standard warranty.

Here's what Xbox Live shows for my 360 S: Your Standard Warranty expires on January 12, 2012. A bit strange it appears it's a 14 month Warranty? I didn't try processing a return. On my Elite repair it showed the expired 1 year but remainin 3 year. I didn't want to accidentally process a return, not like that would have hurt anything though.

Quote:

Ken is highly regarded with Sony.

Of course companies always appoint your highly respected leader of 3 consoles quickly to a position where they have no products, no employees, and subsequently no power. Ken said he has great designs on the PS future and the next week was in no position to execute those designs. Highly regarded enough to not fire outright and excused on a high note.

Quote:

Also there are many XBLA games, most of which are IMO plain crap

There are also a good # of XBLA games which sold more then the majority of PS3 games.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Dec-2010 at 04:50 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: I did provide evidence yet you simply speculated. In Dec 2009, MS was 358, in June 2010, Sony was 315. That's a large gap No, it isn't. That's less than 1 holiday season worth of sales. The period January to June is usually considered a quiet period of game sales. The 360 had a 1 year headstart (so 1 more holiday season in Japan/USA, 2 more holiday seasons for Europe as a headstart).

Earlier you posted that quarter had nearly 1.5Million more console sales than the 360. But, somehow we're now supposed to say it doesn't matter because it was 'quiet'? Inconsistencies abound, my friend!

@BrianK

Quote:

Earlier you posted that quarter had nearly 1.5Million more console sales than the 360. But, somehow we're now supposed to say it doesn't matter because it was 'quiet'? Inconsistencies abound, my friend!

The PS3 outsold the 360 for 1.6 million units for that period last year.

Someone who posts before he thinks may come to a conclusion like you. Look a bit better at the figures.

The XBox 360 sold 5.2 million units over the holiday season last year (3 month period), it sold 3 million the 6 months after that.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand 5.2 million sales (for 3 months) is 67% more sales than 3 million (for a 6 months period).

Similarly the PS3 sold 6.5 million units last holiday season (3 months period), it sold 4.6 million units the 6 months after that.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand 6.5 million sales (for 3 months) is 41% more sales than 4.6 million (for a 6 months period).

Do you really not understand or are you doing this on purpose?

@Lou

Quote:

UK and France are the biggest markets, Spain and Germany there after then maybe Italy.

Despite they are big European game markets, they combined still represent a clear minority of game sales within the EU, let alone Europe as a whole.

Let's take GT5 sales as an example:

Within the UK GT5 sold about 270K its first week (slightly more than GT4).
Within the France GT5 sold 235k first week (that's about 63% more than GT4 sold its first week for the PS2).

Certainly two of the biggest markets within the EU, but:

UK accounts for 62 million people within the EU.
France accounts for 65 million people within the EU.

The total population of the EU is however: 501 million people! (and Europe, including countries not part of the EU represent a far greater figure still, the latter for game sales of less relevance but still quite relevant)

You can of course scoff at the smaller countries in Europe, but combined these coutries far outweigh the UK + France.

For example Finland represents only 5.3 million people in Europe (and about 20% of the population of scandinavia. In Finland GT5 sold over 40k launch week (more than first week WoW: Cataclysm and Halo Reach sales for Finland combined).

62/5.3=11.7, Finland represent 11.7 times fewer people than the UK. 40k sales times 11.7 equals 468k. So relatively speaking GT5 performed about 74% better in Finland than for the UK.

So nullifying game sales for the rest of Europe (or the EU) is only for the simple minds.

Quote:

Your present country - who knows/cares (other than you)

Well, in a ####ing contest of statistics my country beats your country's ass big time, except for country size/population size of course.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Dec-2010 at 07:23 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Dec-2010 at 06:53 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

BrianK Wrote:Quote: Earlier you posted that quarter had nearly 1.5Million more console sales than the 360. But, somehow we're now supposed to say it doesn't matter because it was 'quiet'? Inconsistencies abound, my friend! The PS3 outsold the 360 for 1.6 million units for that period last year. Someone who posts before he thinks may come to a conclusion like you. Look a bit better at the figures. The XBox 360 sold 5.2 million units over the holiday season last year (3 month period), it sold 3 million the 6 months after that. .... Do you really not understand or are you doing this on purpose?

It appears to me that you missed my point. You only posted about hardware. My question was one on the inconsistencies. That was on in software.

Earlier in this thread you had been presented with using Dec 2009 numbers for the 360 and comparing them against the June 2010 numbers for the PS3. In this manner you're claiming a software sales victory for the PS3. You, more fairly, compared hardware as quarter against quarter. When you were presented with the inconsistency in the quarters you declared that was the 'low sales' in software and didn't matter. What I did was provide you that it appears in some other aspects you do want that quarter to matter as you counted hardware.

Now you went on about hardware only and missed the points that you handled software differently than hardware and you're handling the 360 software count and the PS3 software count in different manners. If you want to compare June 2010 sales, that's all cool. Simply be consistent and do it for the 360 as well as the PS3. You can't fail to count 6 months of sales for 1 console and declare a victory. Then try to excuse it by claiming 'low sales' and failing to provide any evidence.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Dec-2010 at 12:24 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Earlier in this thread you had been presented with using Dec 2009 numbers for the 360 and comparing them against the June 2010 numbers for the PS3.

What the hell are you talking about Brian? That was Lou!

I explained to him due to the headstarts he shouldn't be using the data like that.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: UK and France are the biggest markets, Spain and Germany there after then maybe Italy. Despite they are big European game markets, they combined still represent a clear minority of game sales within the EU, let alone Europe as a whole. Let's take GT5 sales as an example: Within the UK GT5 sold about 270K its first week (slightly more than GT4). Within the France GT5 sold 235k first week (that's about 63% more than GT4 sold its first week for the PS2). Certainly two of the biggest markets within the EU, but: UK accounts for 62 million people within the EU. France accounts for 65 million people within the EU. The total population of the EU is however: 501 million people! (and Europe, including countries not part of the EU represent a far greater figure still, the latter for game sales of less relevance but still quite relevant) You can of course scoff at the smaller countries in Europe, but combined these coutries far outweigh the UK + France. For example Finland represents only 5.3 million people in Europe (and about 20% of the population of scandinavia. In Finland GT5 sold over 40k launch week (more than first week WoW: Cataclysm and Halo Reach sales for Finland combined). 62/5.3=11.7, Finland represent 11.7 times fewer people than the UK. 40k sales times 11.7 equals 468k. So relatively speaking GT5 performed about 74% better in Finland than for the UK. So nullifying game sales for the rest of Europe (or the EU) is only for the simple minds.

I know the EU as a whole is about as big as USA. However, not all tittles get released in all countries in the EU and that is a fact. Germany, for instance, would never get violent games. Austalia's(yes, I know different market) board also rejected alot of games in the past as well. All these "different rules" in each sub-market of EU means they don't get all the releases that Japan and USA get.

Quote:

Quote: Your present country - who knows/cares (other than you) Well, in a ####ing contest of statistics my country beats your country's ass big time, except for country size/population size of course.

I got news for ya MikeB. I was born a citizen of an EU country.
Have a nice day.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Earlier in this thread you had been presented with using Dec 2009 numbers for the 360 and comparing them against the June 2010 numbers for the PS3. What the hell are you talking about Brian? That was Lou! I explained to him due to the headstarts he shouldn't be using the data like that.

No, you put parameters on it aligning the sales since launch and claimed a weak victory ignoring your own statements that many 360's are broken, hence the tie ratio is higher on 360 users.

But I digress...

Can you put a # on of the 44M 360's sold, how many are 2nd purchases past the 3 year warranty? 1M? 2M?? 3M? Because if that's the case, I'll say that the active user base of the PS3 is larger than the 360. However, the tie ratio is higher for the 360. This is the same reasoning I used to knock the PS2's 120M sales #. Totally valid as there is alot of evidence that suggests 2 years is the lifecycle of the average PS2 from launch to present.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Dec-2010 at 02:07 PM.

If we really want to get #'s crazy...

Let's pick the #1 selling game for every platform.

Let's then count it's sales and divide by the units the console sold.

1) Wii: 24M/70.93 M = 33.8% (I used Super Mario Kart instead of WiiSports)
2) GC: 8M/24M = 33.3%
3) Xbox: 8M/25M = 32%
4) Dreamcast: 2.5M/10.6M = 23.6%
5) 360: 8M/44M = 18%
6) PS2: 17.33M/130M = 13.3%
7) PS3: 5.1M/42M = 12%

Now what I find interesting is the top systems had high reliability hence a high tie ratio to the #1 title for the platform. The title that essectially defines the console. What's the PS3's excuse for being at the bottom?

We accept that the quality of the console if high. Alot of PS3 owners simply watch movies or spend their money on movies vs. games. The 360's excuse is RRoD. The PS2 we know was junk. The Dreamcast had moderate reliability but fared well at over 23% penetration. The highly reliable systems have penetration of >30% of the user base for the title that "everybody buys the system for".

This is a big Playstation family fail here.

Using these #'s you can aggregate how many active gamers each platform is actually supporting based on the 30-33% rule. That will give you your potential # of replaced 360's too base on the inactive ones.