@MikeB

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Memory doesn't serve you well: Linux was used to access a critical exploit.

I stand by Sony was stupid. They didn't understand the extent of this exploit. The PS3 can be exploited without using 'Other OS' option. Removing 'Other OS' clearly did not have any major impact on security. What it did was #### off Linux users who then were forced to become Hackers if they wanted the features they were sold restored.

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Also you don't seem to understand how the law works. Sony, when a security risk is exposed must do everything in their power to resolve the problem.

Also you don't seem to understand is if removing 'OtherOS' didn't eliminate the security risk. Without 'OtherOS' the console could continue to be hacked. Certainly the law demands effective elimination.

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They would risk a lot doing so for the company/institute they are working for.

This is likely a 'fair use' question whose laws between our Countries may well differ. I'm not up on our laws but at one time 'fair use' allowed decompiled software to be available for educational and university research purposes. Part of the learning experience is understanding how others have approached the problem. So a lot of risk? I'd say the usage and the user are a questions and it's hard to draw a line in the sand as there are probably examples which cross that line.

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Microsoft has the right to ban a million of hacked XBox 360 systems from XBox Live as they did.

And I agree as the Live service is external to the Xbox itself and thus not in my home in the same way the console is. However, Microsoft did not disable features of the console itself.

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Furthermore I am not an expert on matters regarding 360 hacking. But I believe the XBox 360 isn't region free for gaming and it is well known there is an enormous amount of disc scratching going on (often related to the console itself) for which users haven't always gotten their rightful compensation.

Looks to me that you think piracy on the 360 is okay (hacked game) to restore that purchased feature but somehow restoring that purchased feature of the PS3 isn't?

And as a side note the 'enormous amount of disc scratching going on' is simply another of your lies.

@BrianK

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And as a side note the 'enormous amount of disc scratching going on' is simply another of your lies.

Google search: XBox disc scratching 9,830,000 results and those aren't reports in Dutch.

LOL

@MikeB
As you say 'Don't be stupid'. A google results count does not accurately reflect the extent of the problem. There are typically duplicate results such different pages of the same site.

So for fun I searched the terms you asked.
'Xbox Scratching Discs' 208K. Many links here to the original Xbox. So, of course, don't reflect the 360. I'd think you failed to take these out of your count. Also, this doesn't eliminate the complaints from users who failed to follow the manufacturer instructions and moved the console when told not to. (Hardly Microsoft's fault if the enduser fails to understand their product.) Meaning your data clearly does not accurately reflect your claim.

'PS3 Scratching Discs' 168K

And thanks for the Dutch reminder 1 drive found at fault TSST and that from Dec 2006. An estimated 2Million players out of what 50 Million now?

Your 'enormous' claim is highly questionable at best.

Average loss per record of hacking is $318. * 77Million records means Sony is looking at $42 Billion in losses. That amount covers neither time nor materials for securing the network. Nor the costs of pink slips.

In related new Ken Kutargari says -- Well they let me go so...

Also GeoHot states he approves of hacking for in the home and homebrew. He opposes corporate invasion and theft.

As Lou said.. Not all hackers are pirates and not all pirates are hackers. It's clearly pirates that stole corporate records.

Last edited by BrianK on 29-Apr-2011 at 03:09 AM.

@BrianK

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An estimated 2Million players out of what 50 Million now?

That statement was from 2007, there were nowhere near to 50 million XBox 360s shipped by 2007. Disc scratching also happens with new units, although the consumer is usually blamed for moving his console during playback (a dog or kid bumping into a table and such).

@BrianK

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Also GeoHot states he approves of hacking for in the home and homebrew. He opposes corporate invasion and theft.

Goes without saying I think. What the hell would his lawyer advise him to say otherwise? Something like: "I'm a malicious little fanboy who takes joy at the done damage!"?

@MikeB

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That statement was from 2007, there were nowhere near to 50 million XBox 360s shipped by 2007. Disc scratching also happens with new units, although the consumer is usually blamed for moving his console during playback (a dog or kid bumping into a table and such).

Sorry MikeB but MIcrosoft uses industry standard DVD mechanisms. I'm not sure how you think one in a 360 has a special break feature but okay. Belief w/o valid evidence is a strong force in your life.

@BrianK

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Sorry MikeB but MIcrosoft uses industry standard DVD mechanisms.

Just the cheapest they can find. And the early troublesome units which were investigated here in the Netherlands were worse than similar models used in PCs.

@MikeB

http://kotaku.com/#!5796870/sony-hasnt-always-hated-homebrew-development

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Sony's recent run of legal and now technical issues with hackers can be traced back to a single decision: that of removing the ability to run the Linux operating system on the PlayStation 3.

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Net Yaroze was a homebrew development kit for the PS1

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in 2002 Sony went one better and released Linux for PlayStation 2

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So as you can see, when Sony ended support for Linux, it wasn't just canning a niche PS3 feature. It was bringing to an end 13 years of support for users doing cool, custom things with their PlayStation consoles.

It seems this gen Sony has gone to great lengths to lose the reputation it built up over the years...

@MikeB

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Just the cheapest they can find. And the early troublesome units which were investigated here in the Netherlands were worse than similar models used in PCs.

Again the only evidence you have that this is an 'enormous' problem is 2 years old from 1 manufacture of drives TSST. Even then it could simply be a bad batch.

Just for fun I ran my Google search again. This time I swapped Wii in for PS3 and 360. The result was 553K (nearly twice) the links of the Xbox. And Xbox (which had both original and 360 links). was only 20% higher than PS3. If you want to use Google as your data clearly this is a Wii problem.


@ Lou
I'm in line with Kotaku. Sony has had a long term relationship with homebrew. Suing people for breaking something they own be it PS3 or any other console is stupid. It's inside my home I can do with it as I will. And of course the piracy/theft and break into a network that's at a corporation is clearly wrong.

@MikeB
My line is very consistent and different from your opinion. A corporation cannot come onto my property in any manner and remove things I've paid for. Like wise I cannot come on to corporate property in any manner and remove things they've paid for. Both entities need to respect the property boundaries of another. If you feel I'm unethical because I refuse to allow a corporation to tear something out of the product I own because it makes the corporation feel better then so be it. I will continue to be comforable in my 'unethical' position of supporting consumer rights over corporate rights.

Last edited by BrianK on 29-Apr-2011 at 02:53 PM.

Here's a customer service 'headache' and good job!

Last Fall Microsoft changed the Live service to be $60/year. They had an announcement and a buy it early and it's $40 instead. Well I tried to sign up early. I didn't see anything processed. I didn't see my membership extended. Being a good typical lazy person I figured forget it and I'll grab a Live card, which usually sell for less than Microsoft's price in April 2011 when I need to renew.

Again my laziness I didn't grab such card. My 'renewal' notice came up and was about 2 weeks ago. I said forget it I'll just pay the $60 and clicked OK.

When I look in my bank account I got charged $40. There's some bad communication here. But in the end I got what I expected 1/2 a year ago. I wouldn't have complained too loudly at $60 as it's certainly my fault for not following up. But, even better they honored what I signed up for 6 months ago. Great Job!

Now onto gaming online tonight. My PS3 appears to be unusable for online gaming. What's up with that?

@BrianK

Quote:

My line is very consistent and different from your opinion. A corporation cannot come onto my property in any manner and remove things I've paid for.

They don't, just to connect to the free PSN you will have to have the latest firmware update.

Extortion:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/digitaal/games/9659636/__Creditcardgegevens_wellicht_in_handen_van_hackers__.html?p=39,1

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/219123/sony-working-on-goodwill-gesture-for-psn-users-answers-other-questions/

@MikeB

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Microsoft's responses to the unethical illegal hackings: Microsoft offers Hotz free phone

You may either strike "illegal" or delete the second sentence. Otherwise you are fabricating and insinuating. Again. Much like you did with:
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we are expecting Microsoft's robust online network to see an increase of traffic from those gamers who own both systems. Being able to play their games via the Xbox Live network could make all the difference for some gamers, and the Xbox Nations event will allow all of them to do just that

...conveniently leaving out Quote:

“Of course it’s regretful that Sony is encountering issues at such a busy time, and Microsoft takes no joy in the problems gamers are having playing their favourite games online,” said the representative.

Full story

It should also be noted that the event was scheduled before PSN was hacked due to horrible security on Sony's part.

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Earlier this week iPhone and PS3 jailbreaker George Hotz announced that he planned to jailbreak Windows 7 phones. On Thursday Microsoft's developer platform product management lead Brandon Watson told Hotz via Twitter that he would send him a phone: "#geohot if you want to build cool stuff on #wp7, send me e-mail and the team will give you a phone--let dev creativity flourish #wp7dev," he tweeted.

Full story.

So there is the context. Microsoft embraces the developer/hacker culture. The same culture that made the Amiga great in its day.

As others have pointed out Geohotz' actions are not illegal till a court decides that they are.

Last edited by 4-5-6 on 30-Apr-2011 at 12:21 PM.

@4-5-6

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..conveniently leaving out Quote:

That part goes without saying, the are a commercial company. If they state they find joy in the worries of consumers that would not be a wise decision.

I quoted the relevant parts.

@4-5-6

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Microsoft embraces the developer/hacker culture. The same culture that made the Amiga great in its day.

Sony embraced this community in such a way they could best warrant the security of its consumers, sadly malicious people wanted to breach this security for a varierty of different purposes.

I find the original Amiga culure far more appealing than anything Microsoft has done. IMO they have been the most restrictive force in the computing industry in terms of technical progress for consumer operating systems.

@MikeB

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Sony embraced this community in such a way they could best warrant the security of its consumers, sadly

failed. Removing 'OtherOS' didn't secure the console from the DIY crowd. And it's unlikely the exact vulvernability in Sony's network will ever be revealed.

The question is how should companies to proceed and prevent a hacker disaster? Microsoft has tried the sue tactic. Suing does nothing to secure a network. Microsoft is now showing respect, talking and softening things up to get hackers to help with problems. Even the hackers are just ordinary people deep down inside.

Last edited by BrianK on 30-Apr-2011 at 02:29 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I quoted the relevant parts.

Relevant for your propaganda, yes.

@BrianK

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Removing 'OtherOS' didn't secure the console from the DIY crowd

Sadly not secure enough to prevent criminal abuse. But it made it more difficult to do so.