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      /  AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
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djrikki 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:39:21
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2075
From: Grimsby, UK

@all

Another waste of time thread. Stop talking about this so-called 'Commodore' and they will go away - continue talking about them only gives them fuel to continue.

After a little investigation even the so-called financial partner hasn't even filed their accounts on time since 2008 and I am no accountant, but I certainly don't see many zeroes in their accounts.

Without AmigaOS they can't truly be an Amiga thus the debate ends there.

Even if they snazzed up the website consumers aren't dumb they will see right through this or they will be left completely confused.

"Why are they showing me every OS under the sun? What operating system does this thing I actually come with?"

The operating environment in which the user operates is what identifies Workbench as Amiga in the much same way as Finder represents Mac.

There is no doubt in my mind that Hyperion-Entertainment and A-Eon will be questioning its legality and proceeding accordingly before, during and after the release of the real Amiga - the X1000.

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ChrisH 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:39:58
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@HenryCase Quote:
If Commodore USA start supporting AROS financially (i.e. pay money to have work done on it), then

hell will freeze over

_________________
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amigappc 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:41:39
#123 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2008
Posts: 116
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Did anyone mentioned AnubisOS team here?

They talked something about rebuilding AROS on linux kernel?

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Argosy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:42:53
#124 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2010
Posts: 129
From: Shores of Adriatic sea

@amigappc

Quote:
Did anyone mentioned AnubisOS team here?


I did... the project it, as of now, dead AFAIK... but if this recent development turns out to be true, then everything is possible. It would be an attractive solution.

_________________
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Let me set you free.
Come now, come take my hand, then you'll understand,
We'll go to that forbidden land.

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HenryCase 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:44:35
#125 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@Argosy

Quote:

Argosy wrote:
@HenryCase

Quote:
If CommodoreUSA support AROS financially, I will take them seriously


Hmmm... after carefuly thinking this over, I think they should just hire a dev team and develop AROS on their own + naturally they can still pay bounties for some of the work.

The reason being here is that it is unlikely, in my opinion, after having read democles' comment about AROS64, that the AROS community would do the right thing and cut connections with OS 3.1 for a future AROS release. That would mean C=USA getting stuck with AROS as it is today and then we have just a another pretty much useless OS for anything other then retro fun. Which would be a damn shame


I can't speak for the AROS community as a whole, but I am an AROS fan, and have been someone who has opposed breaking the API when the matter has come up in the past.

My reluctance to support an API change is not due to anything more than wanting to finish the job with what we've got. AROS has become a useful system for many people, but there's still some work to do on getting it stable, specifically completing the ABI and API (and bug fixing). If it's abandoned now then we won't get anywhere fast, as we'll be constantly chasing the latest must have features.

Look at the plan for Haiku for an example of how to do it. First release is aimed at BeOS compatibility, but they have the Glass Elevator project for features that will go beyond the features that BeOS compatibility permits.

In other words, get to AROS v1, then work on the next evolution. I am not the only person in the AROS community that I've seen express these thoughts, though I also appreciate not everyone shares my view.

Last edited by HenryCase on 01-Sep-2010 at 01:50 PM.
Last edited by HenryCase on 01-Sep-2010 at 01:49 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:44:42
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@HenryCase

yepp, agreed. Exept for the people that think the name is everything :P

I hope they call it Commodore Amiga AROS One :P

Are you sure "AROS-One" sounds ok as a marketing model term?

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Argosy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:48:22
#127 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2010
Posts: 129
From: Shores of Adriatic sea

@HenryCase

It never made any real sense to me... Going with OS 3.1 compatibility in 2010 is suicide. OK, it's a free OS meant for fun and learning, but still. There's UAE for that(retro fun).

Quote:
but have Glass Elevator project for features that will go beyond the features that BeOS compatibility permits.


Where's something like that for AROS? How much longer will we be dragging on with OS 3.1 API? 2015? 2020? 2030?

_________________
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Let me set you free.
Come now, come take my hand, then you'll understand,
We'll go to that forbidden land.

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damocles 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:50:50
#128 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Argosy

Quote:
Where did you get with it?


Well, compromises were made and Dr. Schulz finished AROS64 which I am hosting (thanks to several AROS devs maintaining it over the years) the nightly build.

Quote:
Are you still funding it?


No, I'm done with AROS. I turned TeamAROS bounty system over to Power2People couple of years ago.

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Argosy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:52:49
#129 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2010
Posts: 129
From: Shores of Adriatic sea

@damocles

Quote:
Well, compromises were made and Dr. Schulz finished AROS64 which I am hosting (thanks to several AROS devs maintaining it over the years) the nightly build.


Too bad... an opportunity wasted. Compromises are always bad for all sides.

Would you be interested in doing something like Anubis OS?

_________________
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We'll go to that forbidden land.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:52:57
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote:
Can everyone who is getting worked up by this chill out a bit please.

If Commodore USA start supporting AROS financially (i.e. pay money to have work done on it), then the Amiga community wins. If they don't, nothing of value was lost, things will carry on as they were before.

It doesn't really harm AmigaOS either. If it did it would have to be in the form of lost sales, but in reality how many people are going to stop saving for an X1000 or Sam now that these branded PCs have been announced? I'd imagine the number of people likely to change their mind is quite small, wouldn't you agree?

The non-hobby funds for upgrading their existing PC may go to Commodore-Amiga PC.

Last edited by Hammer on 01-Sep-2010 at 01:55 PM.

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SvenHarvey 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:55:49
#131 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2003
Posts: 541
From: Birmingham, UK

Wake me up when Commodore USA, Hyperion Entertainment, A-Eon, ACube and Genesi merge and do the job properly offering Amiga OS 5 with the the best bits of AOS, MorphOS and AROS with Amiga Forver as standard across a range of sepcially selected (Apple stylee) x86, x64, PPC, ARM etc etc etc hardware...

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Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
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HenryCase 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 13:56:34
#132 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@Argosy

Quote:

Argosy wrote:
@HenryCase

It never made any real sense to me... Going with OS 3.1 compatibility in 2010 is suicide. OK, it's a free OS meant for fun and learning, but still. There's UAE for that(retro fun).

Quote:
but have Glass Elevator project for features that will go beyond the features that BeOS compatibility permits.


Where's something like that for AROS? How much longer will we be dragging on with OS 3.1 API? 2015? 2020? 2030?


Anubis OS is the Amiga 'glass elevator' project, if you want the future ahead of time, work on it. Main reason it stalled, IMO, was lack of ideas. Design a new Amiga API and you might be able to kick start it.

AROS is a usable system, it has its fans, myself included. Not everything is limited by the OS 3.1 API, by the way. For instance, AROS has the most modern graphics card support out of all the Amiga flavours, the best audio drivers, WiFi is on its way, etc... My point is, plenty of room for growth with AROS as it stands now, OS 3.1 is not the noose around its neck you make it out to be.

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Argosy 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:01:53
#133 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2010
Posts: 129
From: Shores of Adriatic sea

@HenryCase

Quote:
Design a new Amiga API and you might be able to kick start it.


Let's atleast agree on what a new Amiga API would have to be. Thinking is free and if CommodoreUSA really gets going with these new Commodores and Amigas, I'd be willing to participate in a project similar in nature to Anubis OS. That is if AROS doesn't kick off.

_________________
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Let me set you free.
Come now, come take my hand, then you'll understand,
We'll go to that forbidden land.

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clebin 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:08:14
#134 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@nikosidis

Quote:
This one I don't get. Why all this talk about retro and hobby crap.

AROS can be soooo much more than that. It already is.


I'm surprised you'd argue against that. It really isn't much more right now. If you're targeting it at a type of user, you have to be honest about its capabilities.

You can't expect people to run it in a corporate environment. There's no decent office software, limited support for proxy, no VPN, limited options on email, nothing on calendaring or project management, no back-up facilities, no SMB, NFS, Bonjour or other networking, no logging onto a domain, no security, less robust filesystems and a general lack of stability.

The same applies at any design outlet, and even a freelancer will get the job done quicker on Windows, Mac or even Linux, assuming that the software even exists on AROS. We have options for graphics and sound now, but can it really be a professional decision to use it over what Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, Autodesk, Quark and the likes have?

If we're not honest, AROS will get a load of really #### press because people expect too much.

Already, Commodore USA called AROS "robust". Well there's false advertising. If I'm used to an idea of 'robust' and expect that from AROS, I'll be wanting my money back. You know I like AROS, but let's not set expectations it can't live up to.

Chris

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HenryCase 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:08:37
#135 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@Argosy

Quote:

Argosy wrote:
@HenryCase

Quote:
Design a new Amiga API and you might be able to kick start it.


Let's atleast agree on what a new Amiga API would have to be. Thinking is free and if CommodoreUSA really gets going with these new Commodores and Amigas, I'd be willing to participate in a project similar in nature to Anubis OS. That is if AROS doesn't kick off.


Everyone knows the buzzwords by which a new Amiga API would be judged (resource tracking, full memory protection, SMP, etc...). The issue is, knowing those buzzwords doesn't get you much closer to a full API design.

As far as I could see, nobody seemed to bother with API design when the Anubis OS project was active, more focus was on looking at what could be taken from other open-source projects. Anubis OS has to bring something new to the table, rather than repackage existing code in an 'Amiga' way. A new API is the most talked about feature of a NG-Amiga system, so it should have been the focus, but it wasn't.

So my advice; start the Anubis OS project again, focusing on designing the new API first, and you'll get much further than Anubis OS did the first time around.

Last edited by HenryCase on 01-Sep-2010 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by HenryCase on 01-Sep-2010 at 02:10 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:14:10
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote:
@nikosidis

Quote:
This one I don't get. Why all this talk about retro and hobby crap.

AROS can be soooo much more than that. It already is.


I'm surprised you'd argue against that. It really isn't much more right now. If you're targeting it at a type of user, you have to be honest about its capabilities.

You can't expect people to run it in a corporate environment. There's no decent office software, limited support for proxy, no VPN, limited options on email, nothing on calendaring or project management, no back-up facilities, no SMB, NFS, Bonjour or other networking, no logging onto a domain, no security, less robust filesystems and a general lack of stability.

The same applies at any design outlet, and even a freelancer will get the job done quicker on Windows, Mac or even Linux, assuming that the software even exists on AROS. We have options for graphics and sound now, but can it really be a professional decision to use it over what Adobe, Apple, Microsoft, Autodesk, Quark and the likes have?

If we're not honest, AROS will get a load of really #### press because people expect too much.

Already, Commodore USA called AROS "robust". Well there's false advertising. If I'm used to an idea of 'robust' and expect that from AROS, I'll be wanting my money back. You know I like AROS, but let's not set expectations it can't live up to.

Chris

Windows 7 Home edition has a restriction on joining a domain.

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Shufflepuck 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:18:38
#137 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2009
Posts: 643
From: Home

@Thread

OSnews took notice..

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clebin 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:19:59
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@Hammer

Yes, I know. EDIT: It's hardly the point is it?

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 01-Sep-2010 at 02:29 PM.
Last edited by clebin on 01-Sep-2010 at 02:27 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:26:38
#139 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 586
From: Norway, Oslo

@clebin

What a don't like is that you have doomed the whole amiga or amiga like idea. It will never be anything more than hobby, retro blabla. That I don't like.

If you don't belive in things, they will never happen. I have high expectations for the Amigaworld in the future.

I don't like fake advertising either. I'm not talking about AROS right now. I'm talking about what it can be and in some areas it is much more advanced than any original AmigaOS verison was.



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Hammer 
Re: AMIGA Name bought by Commodore!
Posted on 1-Sep-2010 14:32:14
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Shufflepuck

Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/31/commodore-usa-to-relaunch-amiga-brand-with-series-of-aros-deskto/

VR-Zone
http://vr-zone.com/articles/commodore-usa-announces-plans-to-revive-the-amiga/9729.html

TechConnect
http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/hardware/30103/commodore-usa-release-amiga-branded-all-one-pcs

Tom's Hardware
http://www.tomshw.it/cont/news/commodore-amiga-mancava-solo-lui-all-appello/26778/1.html

Users still remember the Commodore-Amiga label.

Last edited by Hammer on 01-Sep-2010 at 02:33 PM.

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