@pavlor

Irrelevant. MacOS had VM in 1991.

You can't stand a tiny bit of criticism of OS 4, even when I'm defending AROS against a recurring put-down, so you ignore my post and try to start some childish ####ing competition.

I can't be bothered with that, mate.

Chris

@Cool_amigaN
@TheDaddy

Yes, I am biased. The reason is that I am a programmer who wants to program the Amiga for a larger market. The market will never Hyperion to get (do not think they meant anything else either). Commodore other hand, will get a big market for their products. Therefore, I believe more in the concept.

For years I have thought that the Amiga (whoever it is) should be based on x86 because that is where the market is and then get the stuff cheaper.

C64 is a retro machine for me. Thus a modern thing with older appearance. Sure you can build it yourself but think what fun to be able to say that they are produced again ....

_________________
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@clebin

Quote:

Irrelevant.

Not in my point of view.

Quote:

MacOS had VM in 1991.

And AROS?

Quote:

You can't stand a tiny bit of criticism of OS 4

Feel free to critize it, I´m not OS4 user...

Quote:

so you ignore my post and try to start some childish ####ing competition.

I´m only trying to show you that there are some areas, where AROS really needs to improve.

You statement was based on belief that AROS is not much far behind OS4, I demonstrated some crucial OS4 features not present (and even hard to implement) in AROS. It really was not my intention to bash AROS or upset its supporters - I admire progress of this OS in last 5 years (I try nearly every new version of Icaros distribution) and hope it will be useable in next few years.

@linnar

>>Yes, I am biased. The reason is that I am a programmer who wants to program the Amiga for a larger market. The market will never Hyperion to get (do not think they meant anything else either). Commodore other hand, will get a big market for their products. Therefore, I believe more in the concept.

Possibly. And I'll say it again, if they have got the name then brilliant! Good luck! I might even provide them new case designs.

>>For years I have thought that the Amiga (whoever it is) should be based on x86 because that is where the market is and then get the stuff cheaper.

Fine, although I am not sure of the OS yet...

>>C64 is a retro machine for me. Thus a modern thing with older appearance. Sure you can build it yourself but think what fun to be able to say that they are produced again ....

I think it looks odd but hopefully they'll sell lots.

_________________
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@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote: Yes, I am biased. The reason is that I am a programmer who wants to program the Amiga for a larger market. The market will never Hyperion to get (do not think they meant anything else either). Commodore other hand, will get a big market for their products. Therefore, I believe more in the concept.

So if you want to program for a bigger market, why not code for Linux? Because if you want to write software for this C-USA Amiga, that's what you'll be doing. It won't have the Amiga APIs except under emulation, and then you might as well code for WinUAE.

Which reminds me, for making it fully compatible with classic Amigas, what are they using as a ROM? The AROS ROM replacement? Or are they pirating the 3.0 ROMs?

_________________
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@pavlor

That's what it seemed like, but if it wasn't your intention, then I apologise.

I never said OS4 wasn't ahead of AROS in some ways. The question is whether AROS deserves to be tagged with the "OS 3.1" thing repeatedly, while OS 4 escapes it on account of its version number. I don't believe that's fair and the features you mentioned aren't enough to justify it.

Let's say OS 4 users had USB 2.0, Gallium3D & wi-fi. I wouldn't be surprised to hear someone say "We had these in 20xx. How long will it take AROS developers to achieve such a level of features?" as you did.

As it's the other way around, we stick to the same way of thinking "AROS = 3.x, AmigaOS = 4.x", forget about AROS features and concentrate on OS4 ones. Ok they're not core kernel type stuff, but you see my point. I'm just asking for a bit of fairness.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 15-Dec-2010 at 01:20 PM.

@linnar

In all honesty, what exactly isn't clear on my post? What CUSA is doing is what already can be done. They are not improving anything, they are just trying to cash out on unaware past amigans / retro gamers, at best. Nothing more nothing less.

And most probably it is going to fail because the future client will perform an internet search, find this or x,yz,z Amigish website and understand in a couple of minutes that he can do the same without paying a single fee for the CUSA+Amiga emblem on the generic x86 mItx. Is it clear now? The Amiga, in hardware terms was 68k (plus PPC expansions). Not even Sam is called an Amiga by the hardware company behind it. Got it?

Now, from software, since you are most familiar with, in which targeted OS are you going to program for this new "Amiga"? 68k legacy 3.x running through Emulation? Add funtionality to E-UAE? Linux? Windows? You can do it right now!

For the last time, this is going to be a dual boot Windows plus customized Linux distro on generic x86 with the Amiga emblem.

_________________

@TheDaddy

" Fine, although I am not sure of the OS yet..."

-It must be a reasonably accurate Amiga OS running on hardware. Then, if the older programs or Windows running virtually on top / outside os play a smaller role.

We'll see when the letter of intent will!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@pavlor
Quote:

It really was not my intention to bash AROS or upset its supporters - I admire progress of this OS in last 5 years (I try nearly every new version of Icaros distribution) and hope it will be useable in next few years.

By saying that you make it sound like it's not usable at all now ? That I object to. In some areas it's even more useful that OS4. (See I can do it too)

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote: @linnar In all honesty, what exactly isn't clear on my post? What CUSA is doing is what already can be done. They are not improving anything, they are just trying to cash out on unaware past amigans / retro gamers, at best. Nothing more nothing less. And most probably it is going to fail because the future client will perform an internet search, find this or x,yz,z Amigish website and understand in a couple of minutes that he can do the same without paying a single fee for the CUSA+Amiga emblem on the generic x86 mItx. Is it clear now? The Amiga, in hardware terms was 68k (plus PPC expansions). Not even Sam is called an Amiga by the hardware company behind it. Got it? Now, from software, since you are most familiar with, in which targeted OS are you going to program for this new "Amiga"? 68k legacy 3.x running through Emulation? Add funtionality to E-UAE? Linux? Windows? You can do it right now! For the last time, this is going to be a dual boot Windows plus customized Linux distro on generic x86 with the Amiga emblem.

Do you have a problem with that I think Commodore road is good?
However, I am not entirely poitiv, I am waiting now on continue lodge. Then we'll see if I continue using Windows or if I go over to Workbench 5.0.

Do not forget that this is a beginning, that is one way to get started. Over time, the Commodore with all probability, have its own "real " OS. That's what I've heard so far.

It's good that I can build their own Amiga. Imagine how cheap it could be then. Perfectum!

Consider also the large market that computer projects can get, I turn giddy already!

Here we come, Commedore !

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote: @ddni ... If they have the Amiga name they can slap it on anything they want; toilets, socks, pizzas, toothpaste, you name it, anything.

Hmmmmm - if I got it right, they don't have the Amiga name:

Amiga, Inc. vs. Cloanto Italia srl (Opposition No. 91175664):

"
Amiga, Inc.,
Opposer,

v. Opposition No. 91175664

Cloanto Italia srl,
Applicant.


MEMORANDUM OF LAW
IN SUPPORT OF
MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

Introduction.

On August 31, 2010, attorney for Applicant, ..., served a copy of
Applicant's First Set of Discovery Requests, Interrogatories, Requests for Production and Requests for Admissions (hereinafter “First Set of Discovery Requests”) ... upon ... attorney for Opposer.
...
Opposer’s responses were due on September 30, 2010.

Opposer failed to file any response or to answer any of the Requests for Admissions contained in Applicant’s First Set of Discovery Requests.
...
Furthermore, matters deemed admitted due to failure to respond to requests for admissions “can form the basis for granting summary judgment.”
...
I. Summary Judgment In This Opposition Proceeding Is Both Timely and
Appropriate.
...
Summary judgment is an appropriate method to dispose of a case in which there is no genuine issue of material fact in dispute, so that the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law.
...
II. Amiga, Inc.’s Opposition to Applicant’s AMIGA FOREVER Trademark
Registration Must Be Denied and Its Registered Trademarks Cancelled.
...
Furthermore, because Opposer’s admissions prove the invalidity of
its registered trademarks, those trademarks must be cancelled forthwith as alleged in the counterclaims filed in this action.
...
Opposer's purported standing in this action is based on the following allegations contained in its Notice of Opposition (¶ 1, Notice of Opposition):
(1) that it owns the following Intent-to-Use Applications and Registrations:
• U.S. Registration No. 1,401,045 for AMIGA, registered on July 16, 1986, for “computers, computer disk drives, RAM expansion cartridges, computer monitors, and computer modems” (Class 9).
• U.S. Registration No. 2,369,059 for POWERED BY AMIGA, registered on
July 18, 2000, covering “computers, computer peripherals, and computer
operating system” (Class 9).
• U.S. Registration No. 2319266 for AMIGA, registered on February 15, 2000 for “computer magazines” (Class 16).
• U.S. Registration No. 2802748 for AMIGA, registered January 6, 2004 for
“computer software used to facilitate development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices; operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices” (Class 9).
• Intent-to-Use U.S. Application Serial No. 78/942544 for AMIGA ANYWHERE, filed on August 1, 2006, for a wide range of goods Class 9.
• Intent-to-Use U.S. Application Serial No. 78/942551 for AMIGA ENABLED,
filed on August 1, 2006, for a wide range of goods Class 9.
...
At the outset, it should be noted that Opposer’s Registrations No. 2802748 and 2319266, both for the word mark, “Amiga,” have been canceled under Section 8 of the Lanham Act on August 14, 2010 and September 17, 2010, respectively, and cannot sustain this opposition proceeding. The only registered trademarks on which Opposer could maintain this proceeding are:
• Registration number 1,401,045 (for the word “Amiga”) (sometimes hereinafter referred to as the “ ‘045 Trademark”) in Class 9, for computers, computer disk drives, RAM expansion cartridges, computer monitors and computer modems; and
• Registration number 2,369,059 (for “Powered By Amiga”) (sometimes hereinafter referred to as the “Powered By Amiga” Trademark) in Class 9, for computers, computer peripherals, and computer operating systems.

Opposer’s admissions and the relevant facts of this case, however, clearly establish that Opposer neither owns nor uses its registered trademarks and has no brand or goodwill associated with them. Specifically, (a) Opposer has abandoned its two registered trademarks through non-use, and (b) in order to renew the ‘045 Trademark, Opposer filed a materially false Combined Declaration of Use In Commerce & Application For Renewal of Registration Of A Mark Under Sections 8 & 9 (hereinafter the “Combined Declaration”).
As Opposer’s admissions make clear, Opposer does not have a going business. It admits that it is insolvent (RA 31 2 ), that its corporate status in the Delaware Secretary of State is listed as “void,” and that it owes taxes in the amount of $388,283. (RA 1, 2, 3; Exhibit 2, Clo009694.)
Opposer has not filed an Annual Report with the Delaware Secretary of State since 2007. The claims stated in paragraph 2 of Opposer’s Notice of Opposition are false: not only has Opposer not engaged in any efforts and expenditures to develop the “Amiga brand and goodwill,” but any
goodwill which its trademarks may have had expired many years ago.
When Opposer acquired its trademarks on August 30, 2004, from its predecessor-in-interest, a Washington corporation also called Amiga, Inc., that company was insolvent. (RA 32.) Since that acquisition, Opposer has engaged in no business involving its registered trademarks. Opposer has admitted that it did not sell a single product bearing the “Amiga” trademarks during the period January 1, 2004 through August 31, 2010. (RA 5.) Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, Opposer has also admitted that it sold no computers, computer disk drives, ram expansion cartridges, computer monitors, computer modems, computer
magazines or other products bearing its alleged trademarks during that period.
...
Furthermore, Opposer has admitted that for more than three (3) years prior to August 14, 2010, it has not used the mark “Amiga” for “computer software used to facilitate development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices” (RA 29), or
“for operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices.” (RA 30.)
...
In Opposition No. 9118272, Opposer has admitted the following facts:
• it has no current employees (W-RA 1 4 );
• it has not made any sales of products for at least five (5) years (W-RA 2);
• it did not acquire the business associated with any Amiga marks from its predecessors (W-RA 41);
• it did not acquire any good will associated with any Amiga marks from its predecessors
...
In fact, Opposer had not sold any modem bearing the word “Amiga” for at least three (3) years prior to filing of the Combined Declaration. (RA 14.)
...
Opposer lied. It was on the basis of Opposer’s false, material representations that the ‘045 Trademark was renewed by the Trademark office.
...
By its failure to answer, Opposer has admitted that it has not used any of its alleged trademarks for any products in more than three years, which is the statutorily-presumed period of abandonment. Opposer has presented no evidence in this case that it has engaged in any “activities or circumstances which would tend to indicate a continuing effort or intent to continue” use any of its trademarks by placing “product on the market on a
commercial scale within a reasonable time, as established by practices in the particular trade.”
...
If Opposer has abandoned its trademarks, then it has, by definition, failed to demonstrate that it has "a present or prospective right to use" those marks, which is necessary to establish standing.
...
Consequently, this opposition action must be denied and Opposer’s registered
trademarks must be cancelled.
...
Opposer has no priority of right to the word “Amiga.” As discussed in the preceeding section, Opposer’s registrations are invalid and should therefore be cancelled. Opposer’s applications for registration of various “Amiga” marks under serial nos. 78942544, 78942551, 78940417 and 78940426 are also unavailing, since each of those were (i) based on Intent To Use, (ii) never used in commerce or interstate commerce, and (iii) filed by Opposer after the date on which Applicant filed the within application.
..."

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

And most probably it is going to fail because the future client will perform an internet search, find this or x,yz,z Amigish website and understand in a couple of minutes that he can do the same without paying a single fee for the CUSA+Amiga emblem on the generic x86 mItx. Is it clear now?

No. If you're talking about their Amiga 1000/2000/3000 cases I agree with you, however their C64 and possible A1200 remakes would be unique. You can't find that on a store.
Sure you can do it yourself, but that involves finding a used machine and having the tools and know-how to modify it for current hardware. It's not a trivial thing to do, and some folks (even being computer hobbyists) may prefer to buy something pre-made and ready to go. That's what they can bring to the table, IMHO.

Quote:

They are not improving anything, they are just trying to cash out on unaware past amigans / retro gamers, at best.

Unaware of what, exactly? Unless they lie in the product specifications prospect, people will know very well what they're buying and surely for how much.

@Dandy

>>Hmmmmm - if I got it right, they don't have the Amiga name:

Amiga, Inc. vs. Cloanto Italia srl (Opposition No. 91175664):

"
Amiga, Inc.,
Opposer,

v. Opposition No. 91175664

Cloanto Italia srl,
Applicant.

etc...etc...


So NOW I am totally confused...who owns what?!

Last edited by TheDaddy on 15-Dec-2010 at 02:44 PM.

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@linnar

seems they changed their website again.

http://www.commodoretest.citymax.com/web_page.html

@TheDaddy

This part is interesting:

Quote:

Opposer has no priority of right to the word “Amiga.” As discussed in the preceeding section, Opposer’s registrations are invalid and should therefore be cancelled

Opposer is Amiga Inc. this could explain how C=USA got the rights, they must have been very cheap.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Dandy

Quote:

• it has no current employees (W-RA 1 4 ); • it has not made any sales of products for at least five (5) years (W-RA 2); • it did not acquire the business associated with any Amiga marks from its predecessors (W-RA 41); • it did not acquire any good will associated with any Amiga marks from its predecessors;

How sad end of once great company.


Edit: Document you linked is statement by Cloanto.

Last edited by pavlor on 15-Dec-2010 at 04:48 PM.

@pavlor

Does this mean that Amiga Inc. took Cloanto to court?

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@pavlor

enough CONJECTURE
facts:
Colanto filed for tm
AInc filed opposition
been dragging on for years
Colanto filed for SJ, based on ??
Colanto has/had LICENSE from Ainc, for many years &pays royalties, and therefore:
HAS been used in commerce, sooooo,

:)

Things are really complex.

_________________
A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

@digitex

It's Cloanto

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk