@kas1e
ah and about extending w3d. sure this standard is currently too tight and outdated but what was mentioned in the blog resembles me of it. perhaps it would be best and possible to linearly extend it remaining backward compatible, say just like adding a functions to library. well not that i have so much to tell about it, let alone i can or want to influence the development. just a thought-

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @eliyahu Quote: my hope would be that any amigaOS-specific changes required to MESA or gallium3D would be pushed back upstream. that would benefit both the community and hyperion, as well as better leverage the few developers we have around here who could contribute to maintaining such changes as the projects move forward in the FOSS world. 100% true. I am almost sure that Hyperion will bring changes to public for everyone, so not only them can fix bugs and contribute. Its the only real way, to have success with all that gallium/mesa really. Because if they will after all close-source amigaos4 related parts of gallium/mesa changes, then i will shoot myself :)

I would actually advise Hyperion not to modify the gallium driver at all but to do a libdrm compatible wrapper around the 2D driver. This strategy works really well for AROS Mesa and it allows me to port new release of Mesa within 4-8 hours to AROS. The gallium interace is still unstable and any changes made to it means more work when integrating new releases.

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@deadwood

As we start to talk there about , and Rogue will not write answer here imho, then i will just report his answer from amigans:

Quote:

The point of the whole exercise is exactly that: - Get more speed by being able to use Shaders, hardware accelerated Transform/Clipping/Lighting, and improved transport mechanisms provided by the hardware. - Get a full OpenGL implementation as opposed to an incomplete MiniGL - Get access to the new features like GL Shader Language. - Get access to the latest hardware that can be supported. Having said that, Gallium3D does not support anything below R300 (which means that 9xxx and 7xxx cards are not supported by it), which is the reason why we opted for a driver architecture that allows for non-Gallium3D drivers. The initial version will probably lack support for these cards, but we'll be looking into that problem ASAP - this might take the form of a generic Warp3D driver, or trying to adapt the old DRI drivers. Right now, this is not the focus though. The focus is on finalizing the infrastructure and the first software-only AMGL driver. We're looking at the end of this or the next week for that.

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@kas1e

This is also the approach I selected - first I delivered mesa combined together with software driver. The difference however was that at that point I didn't though about the whole infrastructure yet (partially because I was "green" in regards to how gfx cards work). As it turned out later, the software driver interfaced with OS in a very different way(*) than the hardware driver did, so it only made sense to think about infrastracture only once I mastered the hardware driver.

(*) - even the Gallium guys recognized that and eventually created two winsys interfaces, one for sw drivers and one for hw drivers.

Last edited by deadwood on 05-Apr-2011 at 06:17 PM.

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@kas1e

Quote:

We're looking at the end of this or the next week for that.

hmm, it seems to confirm the theory that os4 is rather a spare time/weekend and not a fulltime project. (people, dont go off over it please, im just trying to estimate the capacities behind)

@wawa

That quote doesn't really prove anything either way, they could have other OS4 work ongoing at the moment.

Not saying that is the case, just that it's possible.

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@wawa

...or more likely they are working on something else at the moment that has reached its conclusion.

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@djrikki

of course this is most likely alternative. i was just a little puzzled about this "weekend" being emphasized.

@wawa

The way it's phrased, that could easily mean the end of the working week.
Again, just supposition on my part.

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@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @djrikki of course this is most likely alternative. i was just a little puzzled about this "weekend" being emphasized.

rogue does not mention the weekend at all, i dont know how you got that.

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@Derfs

i assumed "the end of the week" means actually a weekend. if a working week was meant i would expect the inaccurate schedule to be more like "the end of this week or a beginning of the next". only an assumption, again.

@wawa

Really, that stuff about weekend its a bit too much there. There is nothing what says about weekend work. There is clear (even for me, bad english speaker) that Rogue works on it right now, and some part of it will be done at the end of current or next week.

Did you really interesting in gallium, or you just in interest about how Rogue works, and what he do in weekends, and what he eat on breakfast ?:) I mean let's disucss something interesting. Clear your mind and so on :)

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@kas1e

lol, right, got carried away again. ;/
lets continue on topic.

edit: btw, just spotted alain has posted yesterday on aros-exec, so he is back in town.

Last edited by wawa on 05-Apr-2011 at 10:07 PM.

@wawa

EDIT: (if I remember correct)

Hermans (?) said that at least the brothers are working full time on OS4 (can't remember where it was said at the moment, though).

EDIT: later, I'll see if I can find it, little busy now... :/

Last edited by marko on 05-Apr-2011 at 10:42 PM.
Last edited by marko on 05-Apr-2011 at 10:40 PM.

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@marko

Quote:

Hermans (?) said that at least the brothers are working full time on OS4

It doesn't make sense, if they still do that after all these years. Where is the money coming from to pay two coders monthly in the AmigaOS 4.x sphere? Besides money, if the two of them worked full time on AmigaOS 4.x I would hope more things got fixed. Count the hours from when update 2 was released until today that two developers would put in... Quite a lot of them.

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@wawa

Quote:

edit: btw, just spotted alain has posted yesterday on aros-exec, so he is back in town.

Yep. I even recieve new version of wazp3d from him week ago (just have no time to test), but as far as i remember he update in in terms of os4 support (blender start to works, etc).

Related to Gallium3d : i lately found that Phoronix in high interest about all that Gallium progress, and while its discussable how good they do their tests, how well they setup it , and how different it beetwen linux and other realisation, still, some progress info are intersting to see. For sure if os4 will have support of gallium3d and mesa, we will have very soon no problems with modern apps and games (just hope it will be fast).

For example, in that small-test-article descibed new speedup tricks which was added to r300 based cards.

And by previous test , i can see that for the last half of year, gallium3d speedups really on linux (sure, can be linux related tricks, but point that its in improvements all the time).

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@zerohero
to sum the ot up, ive just received pm from rogue, he actually meant "the end off the week" not "weekend", so lets leave it at that. mea culpa.

@wawa

Eh? I think you wanted to reply to kas1e, right?

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@kas1e
Quote:

Yep. I even recieve new version of wazp3d from him week ago (just have no time to test), but as far as i remember he update in in terms of os4 support (blender start to works, etc).

same here, just received another update of hw w3d drivers from matt, and no time to test yet. and im not even programming 4 amiga. damn.

@zerohero

sorry, i just wanted to close that ot that i have carelessly knocked off, and directed the comment at you as a mod. as kas1e rightly said, its useless. lets dont dig into that and go over to the subject.

Last edited by wawa on 06-Apr-2011 at 12:35 AM.